4K weirdness

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by wcaspe, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

    25
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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    Equipment
    TV: Sony XBR 65X930D
    Tivo: Bolt + (series 6, TCD849000)
    Tivo software version 21.7.2.RC11-USC-11-849
    Netflix reports the speed as 28.12Mbps. Network is 250 Mb external, wired internal.
    I hava Denon X4200W reciever, however, that is not wired in the loop while I troubleshoot this.
    TV is direct HDMI 12' cable to the Tivo. Cable is HDMI Premium certified. Have used 3 cables so far.
    TV supports HDCP 2.2 on all ports
    TV HDMI port is set to either "standard" or "enhanced". issue still repros.
    Tivo reports HDCP 2.2 is enabled on the sys info screen
    Auto for your TV includes: 1080p 60fps
    Watching cable TV at 1080p works fine. This is one of those inquires into why this isn't working completely right.

    Three issues:
    1) my understanding is that Tivo's Auto video setting should have a listing for 4K 60fps if everything is working well?
    2) Netflix will only show UHD (4K) options if I have 4K 60fps manually selected on the Tivo Video resolution menu. If the Tivo is set to Auto, I only get HD options in Netflix. When 4K 60fps is manually selected, my TV information reports the 4K stream correctly. Basically, when I manually set 4K video on the tivo, Netflix works as expected. Shouldn't Netflix work at 4K when Auto is set as well?
    3) Amazon.. only broadcasts HD, no matter what I set the Tivo to. UHD is an option. When I hit "pause", Amazon says it is in HD. This is different if I run Amazon on the Amazon streaming application on the TV. UHD shows properly display UHD on pause.

    I contacted Tivo. Tivo suggested that I contact Amazon, as the issue is with the Amazon application. I contact Amazon, and did not get anywhere. Amazon shows UHD just fine using the Amazon app on my TV, as well as on my laptop.

    Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  2. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    Quick update, this is definitely an issue with the Tivo.
    I replaced the Tivo with a 4K Apple TV. I ran the same wiring, and even put the Denon X4200W reciever back in the loop.
    The Apple TV reports that the wiring is fine. It has a wiring check. Runs in 4K HDR mode, no problem. Netflix and Amazon prime applications deliver content in 4K, no problem. Same wires, same receiver, same TV. I will update the case with Tivo, is it is obviously their hardware or software.
     
  3. rjrsouthwest

    rjrsouthwest Active Member

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    62
    Feb 19, 2016
    I have had a Tivo Bolt connected to a Vizio P series 4k TV for over 1 1/2 years and the Tivo Bolt is in auto display mode and I get UHD, HDR10 and Dolby Vision 4k shows available on Netflix in 4k using the cable that came with the Bolt without doing anything but just selecting the show and playing it. Sounds like to me the problem is your TV is not sending the proper capability info to the Tivo.
     
  4. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    Great idea to use the stock cable. It is not long enough for my application.

    As a consumer, I am not sure that I care where the problem actually lies, it just needs to work. I think Tivo gets this concept.

    I spent $180 in cables chasing a red herring. Sony XBR TV's are common. Apple seems to have figured out how to make it work. I refuse to understand why Tivo does not. I have owned Tivo products for years and multiple generations. Big fan. However, I will not hesitate to call out that they are failing here.

    During this investigation, I could not find that there are differences between HDMI requirements for cables by HDMI versions. Clearly, cables are built differently. Some work, some don't. Could be materials, twists in the wire per foot, etc. The HDMI group came up with a certification system for testing cables to operate at high speed and 4K. Any cable with the HDMI Premium Certified Cable logo sticker should work fine for this application. This is not an expensive option, you can find cables certified by HDMI at Monoprice. Regardless of this, Apple 4K TV states that my cable plant is working fine.

    Tivo needs to look into this problem and fix it. If it is indeed in the TV, I am sure that Sony has a big enough engineering department to help them figure it out.
     
  5. rjrsouthwest

    rjrsouthwest Active Member

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    62
    Feb 19, 2016
    Longer HDMI cables are more problematic and cause weird and strange scenarios to pop up with no explanation as to why. Seems like most of the people that have problems have longer cables or route through a receiver.

    Has your Sony TV had the most recent firmware update? They tend to fix the reported problems as they roll out new firmware updates.

    My Vizio TV also came with a special HDMI cable to avoid the problems that tend to pop up.
     
  6. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    I tackled the cables first thing, based on what I read in this forum. I did a direct TV to Tivo cable connection with a 12', 15', 16' and 6' cable. Cable issues with HDMI that are distance related tend to start ~25'. The only specifications I could find from HDMI talked about bandwidth on the cable, and not actual cable construction. All of the cables I used claimed that they supported "high speed HDMI", and "the latest standard". Only one of the cables actually carried the HDMI Premium logo specification. All cables that I tried showed the same conditions on the Tivo that I mentioned earlier. All cables that I tried worked as expected with the Amazon Prime and Netflix applications using my 4K Apple TV, and now, my XBOX One X as well. If the Apple TV and the XBox are working as expected at 4K, I am inclined to believe my wiring plant is in good shape. I am currently running the Apple and Xbox through my Denon X4200W with zero issues. For the purposes of this test, I did do the direct connection as well. I went back to my 15' Amazon Basics HDMI cable, as it obviously works fine.

    As far as the TV goes, I have kept my firmware up to date. I am currently running the firmware drop that Sony dated on 1/18/2018.

    Tivo needs to make sure their product works with streaming. In my case, it does not. I do wonder how many other folks who have reported a similar situation are actually running on fine cables, and it is some sort of protocol or handshake issue. It is not unreasonable to expect Tivo to make this work. Microsoft and Apple seemed to be able to do it.

    The cable that your TV came with is highly likely one that Vizio found to work, so they ship it. It would be nice if the HDMI group made a cable specification, such that any cable made to that spec would work. Instead, they offer a test on the back end. I found that old HDMI cables that I got back in the 1.1 days are carrying the 4K signal just fine. At the end of the day, this is a digital signal, the signal needs to get from one end to the other at the right electrical levels so that the receiving device can figure out the signal.
     
  7. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

    4,924
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    Feb 4, 2008
    Chicagoland
    Have you searched for Amazon and 4k on the site (that funxtion is not the best). I habe seen several posts with amazon 4k, it appears they may have pulled that functionality from their app recently.
     
  8. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    634
    May 2, 2015
    When did the Netflix app on the Bolt start supporting Dolby Vision and HDR10?
     
  9. rjrsouthwest

    rjrsouthwest Active Member

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    62
    Feb 19, 2016
    I was just stating that all the shows available on Netflix that are available in UHD, HDR10 and Dolby Vision stream in 4k with my Tivo Bolt in auto display mode, the HDR10 and Dolby Vision data streams are not passed to the TV but they display in 4k when in Auto mode. If I want to send those HDR10 and Dolby Vision streams I have to use the native smartcast Netflix app on the TV or cast from my phone or tablet.
     
    aaronwt and NashGuy like this.
  10. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    I think the root of my issue is that the Tivo is not detecting 4K as an option when in Auto mode. I have to manually set it to 4K to get Netflix to co-operate. I understand that 4K should be working on Amazon as well, with Tivo.
     
  11. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    May 2, 2015
    Based on all the posts in several different threads I've seen here lately, I'm not sure that the Amazon app on the Bolt does stream in 4K right now. Maybe. But as far as Netflix goes, yeah, you should be getting it in 4K from the Bolt. Something's off there for you.
     
  12. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    How are you getting HDR10 and DOlby Vision from the Bolt? HAs the Bolt finally been updated to allow HDR?
     
  13. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    22,046
    682
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Just don't use Auto. I don't use auto and have the resolutions I want manually selected. Everything works fine with UHD content.
     
  14. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    Talking with Tivo support now.. they are telling me the issue is that I am not using gold tipped cables....

    Auto mode should work. In manual mode, I get flicker as I change channels. This product should work as intended.
     
  15. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    got disconnected on the last call. Got a second resolution which suggested to use gold tipped cables.. This one went a bit better, in that the support person is escalating my issue to engineering. FINALLY! Currently at 5 case numbers... Having a support email address where I can send a well documented case, firmware versions, and repro steps would be super helpful. Apparently, support does not read what you copy and paste into the web forms.
     
  16. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    22,046
    682
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    I wonder what I'm not doing wrong? My cables aren't gold tippedo_O and I'm able to get UHD without any issues.
     
    JoeKustra likes this.
  17. wcaspe

    wcaspe New Member

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    Sep 17, 2004
    Bothell, WA
    That was my point.. The Apple TV and XBOX run 4K just fine on my older HDMI cables that I bought in the 1.2 era. You can get HDMI tested and logo'd cables that are certified to work. None of those that I have are gold tipped either. Older cables may work with the higher signal speeds, but they may not. I get asking customers to run with certified cables at higher speeds, as it is likely to work. Fortunately, there is not a big price premium for cables with the HDMI sticker. I did see plenty of cables at Fry's for > $1 a foot that did not have the sticker! I found cables on Monoprice for a lot less that were certified. Funny thing though, Tivo tech supports was not talking about certified cables. They were talking about gold tipped cables. I do have a 1.2 cable that is gold tipped...
     
  18. razor237

    razor237 Member

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    9
    Feb 1, 2002
    Jackson, NJ
    not sure if you found any solutions but I Think you might be stuck manually setting your resolution to get Netflix in 4K :( ... I Have a bolt with the same issues as yours. Auto doesn't work correctly and from reading and searching for months it seem TiVo auto settings don't like Sony Tv's I have an XBR-65X850C that everything else works fine in 4k/HDR but my TiVo. Seems most TiVo owners with 4K issues have a sony TV and most have denons too lol but that's the issues since they can reproduce same results with the denon out of the mix. just thought i would throw my 2 cents in, came across this post searching for updates
     
    JandS likes this.
  19. Abbott25

    Abbott25 New Member

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    Feb 8, 2018
    I too have a Problem with "AUTO video setting" I keep setting it to "4K-60hz" and it keeps going back to "Auto" My TV is an "Sony-XBR65x900b". when it goes back to Auto, the TiVo-Bolt+ sets to 1080p, why ? Note I found out that , my system is going thru my "Yamaha AVR" and when I turn it on 1st, it seems the TiVo will stay at "4K-60hz" ,,, but then sometimes , streaming Apps, Like "AmazonPrime Video" will show , UHD Shows in TIVO Menu, and sometimes Not Why????
     
  20. Norm Walker

    Norm Walker New Member

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    Mar 24, 2018
    4K with my Vizio works well in YouTube and Netflix but has been hit or miss in Amazon.
     

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