4 Lights Flashing on Bolt

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by JOSHSKORN, May 14, 2016.

  1. Dec 1, 2017 #381 of 598
    jfdiv

    jfdiv John D'Alessandro

    5
    0
    Oct 5, 2007
    Limerick, PA

    Advertisements

    Yes it does. Manufactured August 1, 2017.

    Seagate BarraCuda 4TB
    Model ST4000LM024
    FW: 0001

    But of course, now I'm not sure I want to risk it.
     
  2. Dec 1, 2017 #382 of 598
    jfdiv

    jfdiv John D'Alessandro

    5
    0
    Oct 5, 2007
    Limerick, PA
    If I can cleanly hack this easy store drive, I'm going that route. I'm attempting to bypass the USB port with a direct sata cable while still using the case's power supply. Awaiting a sata power extension cable to arrive to see if that'll do the trick. If successful, I'll have more space than I'll ever use in a TiVo...8TB.
     
  3. Dec 7, 2017 #383 of 598
    rburriel

    rburriel New Member

    12
    3
    Dec 13, 2007
    Seagate 3TB ST3000LM016 installed into my Tivo Bolt in early November 2017. As of this morning, I'm seeing the 4 flashing lights. It's been *A MONTH* and I'm sick to my stomach and pissed at the same time. I'll do a 30 second reboot when I get home but this thread isn't inspiring confidence. It's not even that I may have to open the Bolt again (which isn't pleasant). It's that I may not have access to my Tivo for days and that all my past recordings may be lost. I'll report back.
     
  4. Dec 7, 2017 #384 of 598
    V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

    1,721
    582
    May 28, 2005
    New Mexico...
    Considering all the MANY posts in these forums from people with bad experiences using Seagate drives in TiVOs, and the constant advice given to avoid this brand, I am amazed every time I see a new person post that they are going to try it anyway. This is just one more report of sadness earned by that decision.

    I wish you the best of luck in getting to a better place with your TiVo.
     
    fcfc2 and fis like this.
  5. Dec 7, 2017 #385 of 598
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    23,666
    1,307
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...

    Advertisements

    Seagate uses SMR in all their 2.5" drives now. Which is why they are not recommended.

    Although I'm at 26 months of use now for a 4TB Seagate in one of my Bolts. The other 4TB Seagate died at 24 months.
     
  6. Dec 7, 2017 #386 of 598
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    2,883
    486
    Jan 6, 2007
    This is the updated failure tally from an earlier post:

    4 Lights Flashing on Bolt

    I tabulated the reported failures on this thread back to around page 12 (May)

    4 esata -> sata recovered

    4 Toshiba 2.5" fail

    9 Seagate 2.5" fail

    Given the Toshiba has been the most recommended drive (meaning the number of installs is probably much higher) 4 fails is not that high. There were 9 Seagate fails with probably much fewer installs (because everyone got concerned with SMR drives)

    As I posted in a different thread, industry average failure rates for 24/7 usage are likely in the 1-5% range. If you have 3% failure and 1000 units, that is 30 failures. If you have 100 units and 5 failures, that is 5% failures. If you just look at the raw 30 reports without knowing how many units, it may look like the 1000 unit brand is failing more often, but in reality the 5 failures represent a higher percentage.

    The reality is you are going to see noticeable # of drive failures in 24/7 usage situations for any drive if you have enough units. Industry average is probably around 1-5%. You can guesstimate the # of installs and see if you feel the reported failures is extraordinary, or just ordinary.

    IMO given the Toshibas have been the recommended drive for a while, with the Seagate drives being out of favor due to SMR concerns, the Seagate SMR failures are extra-ordinary given the number of units installed is probably significantly less than the Toshiba.

    guykuo - esata -> sata = recovered
    tivobw - esata -> sata = recovered
    bilj65 - esata -> sata = recovered
    Jimbo687 - esata -> sata = recovered

    slicer - Toshiba 2.5" = fail
    TydalForce - Toshiba 2.5" = fail, Western Digital 2.5" = failing
    sastexan - Toshiba 2.5" = fail
    fis - Toshiba 2.5" = fail

    ClaytonK - Seagate 2.5" = fail
    aaronwt - Seagate 2.5" = fail
    FreydNot - Seagate 2.5 = fail
    Lenarro - Seagate 2.5" = fail
    tivobw #2 - Seagate 2.5" = fail
    tivoboy - Seagate 2.5" = fail
    krazyboy13 - Seagate 2.5" = fail
    mb117 - Seagate 2.5" = fail
    rburriel - Seagate 2.5" = fail
     
    fis likes this.
  7. Dec 7, 2017 #387 of 598
    rburriel

    rburriel New Member

    12
    3
    Dec 13, 2007
    Regarding my use of a Seagate, I'll put the blame on this entirely on myself (I made the commitment to crack open the Bolt and replace the drive, and I accept the consequences of this), but I explored no other options after I saw that Seagate was the recommended option at the Ross Walker site:

    A Guide to Upgrading Your Tivo Bolt, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Roamio OTA, Tivo HD, Tivo Series 3 or Tivo Series 2 (Easily upgrade your Tivo Bolt, Roamio or Premiere to 300 Hours+ HD Capacity) - Also includes instructions on how to fix a broken Tivo.

    I also read the reviews at Amazon from users who said they had used the ST3000LM016 in their Tivo successfully.

    I *did* at least try to do my homework.

    So, assuming I cannot rescue my Tivo, are we saying that Toshiba is the preferred option these days?

    I would argue that there are less reports of Toshiba failures out there than Seagate failures because there's simply fewer Toshiba drives in use than Seagate drives. But aaronwt's point about Seagate using SMR (not recommended) does seem to hammer in the message.
     
  8. Dec 7, 2017 #388 of 598
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    23,666
    1,307
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    You can also get a WD drive. But only the 1TB and 2TB are affordable options. Their 3TB, 2.5" drive is extremely expensive. Although that 3TB WD Blue drive is the one that TiVo uses in the Bolt+ models.
     
    fis likes this.
  9. Dec 7, 2017 #389 of 598
    rburriel

    rburriel New Member

    12
    3
    Dec 13, 2007
    Thanks all. It looks like my hands are tied. Even if I can recover from this existing error, having an SMR Seagate drive means I'm on borrowed time. The following thread tells me that the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 is the current recommended model:

    Compatible hard drive list for Bolt...

    Short of paying through the nose for a unicorn 2.5" 3TB WD drive, I guess I'll be ordering a Toshiba and doing some more surgery on my Tivo Bolt.
     
  10. Dec 8, 2017 #390 of 598
    rburriel

    rburriel New Member

    12
    3
    Dec 13, 2007
    Last update on this matter... probably.

    Yup, that Seagate is dead as a doornail. I even plugged it into a Windows PC and it didn't resolve. Plugging in the original 500 GB hard drive that I had removed from the Tivo into the Windows PC at least registered that a hard drive had been connected. But the Seagate did nothing but whir and beep. I'm back on the 500 GB hard drive now. I may just stay with that one for a while and see if I really need 3 TB or not. Opening a Tivo Bolt is not a pleasant experience. My fingers are in considerable pain. I don't want to do that again if I don't have to.
     
  11. Dec 8, 2017 #391 of 598
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    23,666
    1,307
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    I can get the lid off of a Bolt it a few seconds. I used to baby removing the lid until I realized I could rip it off quickly without any issues.
     
  12. tivobw

    tivobw Member

    85
    21
    Oct 26, 2002
    Redmond, WA
    I must say, after upgrading to a 4TB WD RED, we're not looking back. As long as it stays reliable, we're enjoying it. :) So far that seems to be the case, with the exception of when Tivo rolled out the firmware upgrade which temporarily disabled our hard drive (as the new firmware didn't recognize eSATA->SATA adapter; we fixed that issue by directly connecting from the SATA connection on the Tivo motherboard to the SATA connection on the external HD enclosure).

    While I miss having the Seagate 2.5" internal drive in the Tivo for the lower noise (having everything nicely installed within the Tivo was also fantastic), having it fail about a year later was sheer misery. We lost all our recordings, and my wife was irate! So with the WD red we have an external enclosure and have a cable routed outside the Tivo to the enclosure, but since it's all hidden away in the bottom shelf of our media center (with a closed door), it's essentially out of sight, out of mind.

    The funny thing is, no matter how much space you have, you will always run out. We are now at 90% capacity on ours! Time to do some cleaning. ;)

    I understand your thoughts on not upgrading the Tivo... but if you ever reconsider, I suggest going with an external drive, external enclosure and all that. It's a bit more dorky looking, but in practice it sure seems a lot more reliable. Additionally, I don't think anyone has reported an external hard drive failure on the boards yet; if so, it's a very low number as I haven't seen it yet. By comparison, there have been a slew of reports about internal 2.5" upgrade drives (such as the Seagate) failing.

    And if you want the upgrade but don't want to do it yourself, you could always buy the bigger Tivo Bolt+ model, or try a Weak Knees upgrade. Of course those are more expensive, but they take care of the hassle and you can just enjoy the SuperTivo!!! :D

    I really wish we could get away from physical hard drives, and Tivo would offer a cloud-based storage option for their customers. This would take the burden of storing content out of customers' hands! If they could also offer backup capability for that content, you would NEVER have to worry about losing content. Seems like a no brainer, and a great new revenue stream for Tivo, as I think they could surely benefit from some more income. I would certainly pay for this feature.

    It's been fun upgrading my Tivos over the years (been doing it since our first, the AT&T Tivo back in 1999/2000, something like that), but I don't like the idea that I'm a hard drive crash way from losing everything. Sure, you could manually back up most of your content to your computer using pytivo etc., but there are some shows you can't back-up (due to copyright), and it's a hassle to manually manage this. We've all got busy lives and finding time to back up Tivo content is on the bottom of the priority list for me! C'mon Tivo, offer cloud storage!
     
    Dan Cour, DocNo and rburriel like this.
  13. V7Goose

    V7Goose OTA ONLY and Loving It!

    1,721
    582
    May 28, 2005
    New Mexico...
    Losing a storage drive is always a traumatic experience, not just on the TiVo. I have about 12,000 programs from various sources (many archived from various TiVo boxes over the years) spread over lots of different hard drives and recorded DVDs. For a long time I would only use DVD and Blu-ray for archives just because I was afraid of loosing too many programs at one time if something failed. I try to limit the size of those archive drives to just 2 TB due to the huge loss of files if one goes bad. Over the past 15 years, I have lost two of those archive drives, and it really hurts.

    And this is one of the things I struggle with on deciding how big a drive I want to put in my TiVos. I think the 3 TB drive is a good trade-off between size and risk, and since I want more than a total of 3 TB, I have more than one TiVo.
     
  14. fis

    fis Member

    85
    31
    Feb 7, 2017
    An update -- some closure and one more data point for those considering the Toshiba 3TB MQ03ABB300 drive:
    • I paid $150 for my Toshiba 3TB drive with the full 3-year U.S. Warranty earlier this year.
    • 6 months later it failed.
    • I then learned from Toshiba that the warranty period is counted from the date of manufacture -- not from the purchase date -- despite the fact that I purchased from an authorized retailer and had the receipt. So in my case the warranty was actually just over 1 1/2 years. BUT I was still covered.
    • It was finally honored in the form of a VISA debit card in the mail with $114.99 on it -- Toshiba's "market value assessment" of the drive's worth.
    I have moved on to Western Digital.
     
    aaronwt likes this.
  15. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    2,883
    486
    Jan 6, 2007
    Is it full value for the first year, then pro-rated? or is it pro-rated from the beginning?

    My "market value assessment" of Toshiba just went down.
     
  16. fis

    fis Member

    85
    31
    Feb 7, 2017
    I asked when I first called to RMA the drive. They would not/could not say. Just told me to wait a few months for the card to come and you'll see what the "market value assessment" was. It's one of those shady high-breakage debit cards, too. Expires in six months.
     
  17. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

    2,883
    486
    Jan 6, 2007
    Buy an Amazon gift card right away before you forget in 6mo+1day.
     
    jfdiv and aaronwt like this.
  18. Jan 4, 2018 #398 of 598
    ohboy710

    ohboy710 Member

    129
    16
    Jun 30, 2008
    Well I have had my Bolt for 15 months now and today the hard drive failed. 4 flashing lights. They first told me they wanted $149 to replace the unit, until I argued and then they said they would send me another one for $49. It's ridiculous that a hard drive would fail after 15 months, what junk. I'm soooo close to ditching them all together after this and all the other issues.
     
    Dan Cour likes this.
  19. Jan 5, 2018 #399 of 598
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    23,666
    1,307
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Hard drives can fail in one day, one week, one year, ten years etc. There will always be a certain percentage of hard drives that fail prematurely. No matter how you use them or what device you use them in. This has always been the case.

    Of course it still sucks when it happens.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
    DocNo and ohboy710 like this.
  20. Jan 5, 2018 #400 of 598
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

    3,969
    1,762
    Nov 2, 2017
    At least TiVo agreed to extend the warranty 3 months.
     
    Dan Cour likes this.

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements