4 Lights Flashing on Bolt

Discussion in 'TiVo Bolt DVR/Streamer' started by JOSHSKORN, May 14, 2016.

  1. BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    It's a system failure, not a drive failure as (I think) you were implying. The system failure is a result of trying to use the drive in a system it was not designed for. That's an incompatibility issue. The hard drive did not fail.

    Linux and Windows have modifications to account for long write latencies and to take advantage of the unique commands that SMR drives have (GitHub - Seagate/SMR_FS-EXT4). Is any of that being used in the Tivo? Nope. The Tivo is designed for PMR drives. SMR drives are for archiving purposes only. From a reliability point of view, the failure isn't with either of the individual components but the system as a whole. The true failure is with the operator.

    Anyway, I still think these Toshiba 3 TB drives have issues as a hard drive replacement in a Tivo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  2. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    The post was talking about detecting/correcting forms of physical sector failure throughout, not the logical failures you are describing. The error detection / correction described is done at the hardware level, but can be re-done at the software level per application.
    The reason Physical failure was used in that way was referring to what OP had in their mind was a physical failure based on the context of their post.

    In OPs mind, bad sector would not be considered "physical/mechanical" because "formatted they're good-to-go"

    If one has a bad sector that is failing hardware error detection and error correction during a read, the drive won't remap the sector, because it doesn't know the original data. This will give an error if the sector is read. If you susequently format this sector, the drive hardware knows you don't care about this sector (formatting the drive and starting over in OPs vernacular) because you are writing over it, so it can then safely remap, throwing away the original contents of that sector. The drive can then be used, even though there had been physical failure, which has now been re-mapped.
     
  3. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    It is both poor system design (by end-user) and the drive is failing.
     
  4. fis

    fis Member

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    I'm struggling with what to do next. To recap, My Bolt works fine with the original 500GB drive reinstalled, but gives me the flashing lights when I install the 3TB Toshiba drive (which had worked for 6 months).

    I don't care about the lost recordings, and the Toshiba drive is under warranty, but PC diagnostics say the Toshiba drive is readable and error-free, so I doubt that I have a warranty claim.

    Is it possible to reformat the Toshiba drive to MFS and try it in the Bolt again?
    (I downloaded the MFSR program to my PC and ran it in as administrator/Win7 compatability but it just says "No Roamio Drive Found")
     
  5. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Were any sectors remapped? Were there any pending?
     
  6. fis

    fis Member

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    I don't know what that means. Sorry not too much of a techie. Just enough to get myself in trouble.
     
  7. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, you said PC diagnostics said the drive is readable and error-free. What PC diagnostics are you running?
     
  8. fis

    fis Member

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    Just chkdsk (or whatever the equivalent is now -- properties/tools/error checking)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  9. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    I think if you run chkdsk from the UI it is doing a filesystem scan rather than a full disk scan, but I might be wrong. I recall you probably need to do a chkdsk /R for it to scan for bad sectors.

    From the standpoint of re-using the drive, you could of course format it, run mfsr on it, and stick it back and see if it works. It doesn't take much time since you have the drive out already. You could just take the approach of trying it and monitoring it closely for strange behavior vs trying to look into more details.

    The reason I was asking about whether there were remaps is because it could inform your decision about whether to return your drive or keep using it. If your Reallocated Sector Count under SMART is going up or some of the other error counts like uncorrectable errors are going up, even if the drive reads fine right now, there is a chance it'll go bad soon. On the other hand if those values are 0 then your drive might be fine or there might be an error somewhere else. Basically the SMART info can't tell you whether you should keep using the drive, that is a judgment call, but they can tell you if you probably shouldn't keep using the drive.

    I usually just run the WD diagnostics and read the SMART info it gives me. I don't know if their tools will work with Toshiba drives. This one probably will work.

    PassMark DiskCheckup - SMART hard drive monitoring utility

    I don't know if I'm recalling correct, but I believe someone mentioned Toshiba doesn't exchange drives, but gives your money back instead. I could be remembering wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  10. fis

    fis Member

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    Sincerest thanks for the detailed reply and advice. As for the above, that's what I tried. I downloaded and ran MFSR but it just returns the message "No Roamio Drive Found." Wondering what I might be doing wrong.
     
  11. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    We were discussing 2 different trains of thought.

    1) determining whether the drive had evidence it was starting to fail
    2) reformatting the drive to use in TiVo again

    I think it is better for you to investigate #1 first.

    First step I think would be to look at the SMART disk stats (the program I linked to should be able to get that info for you. Then you can determine whether you want to proceed using the drive.

    If you were to use the drive, IMO you should low-level format (what qualifies today for a low-level format) write zeros on the whole drive. This should remap the most marginal of sectors.

    As to MFSR it is something for #2. MFSR for a 3TB drive would 4k-align the partitions to reduce future disk activity. On a 3TB drive you probably need to get the 1.0.0.5 version from ggieseke. I don't believe the public 1.0.0.4 would work on a 3TB drive. MFSR is only meant to run *after* TiVo formats the drive. Whether you run MFSR or not on a 3TB drive (you don't actually need to, it will work without it), you first need to zero out the first few sectors of the drive (in your case the drive has had other data on it so best to zero it out), then put the drive in TiVo and boot to the first screen. In the process TiVo will format the drive. You already went through that part when you first installed the drive. The added step I was suggesting is to run the 1.0.0.5 MFSR on it to 4k-align the partitions.

    Really, IMO though you should get more info about your disk and why it might have failed before continuing to use it.

    Most folks won't want to spend the effort/money, but spinrite can perform some non-destructive lower level surface analysis on your drives, including TiVo drives.
    GRC | Hard drive data recovery software  
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  12. fis

    fis Member

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    Thanks so much, again.
    I downloaded Passmark DiskCheckup. Here's what I got:

    Under the Device Info tab:
    Status says "Warning (One of more SMART threshold(s) exceeded)"

    Under the SMARTInfo tab:
    All OK except #5:
    Reallocated Sector Count FAIL - Value 22 Threshold 50 Raw Value 16024

    Under Disk Self Test
    It reaches 10% then says "The last self-test routine complted with a failure of an unknown test element"
     
  13. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    IMO you should take a screenshot and submit to Toshiba for Warranty. That number if it was just reallocated sectors isn't good but isn't totally horrible. That number of FAILed Reallocated Sectors is not good.
     
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  14. fis

    fis Member

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    Thanks for all of your help. Much appreciated. This is a very valuable community.
     
  15. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    I may have misread that FAIL as part of SMART diagnostics. I think that is the program actually saying it felt the reallocated count was a FAIL, not a count of how many reallocated sectors FAILED to reallocate.

    Anyway, I would still warranty the drive, because it already showed that enough sectors are not readable that it affected your TiVo.

    Also I am guessing the disk self test is terminating because the controller is punting because something is not right.
     
  16. HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

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    1.0.0.4 works on 3TB drives (I used it on the factory drive in my Roamio Pro). 1.0.0.5 is only for drives smaller than 3TB.

    Scott
     
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  17. fis

    fis Member

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    Where would I download 1.0.0.4?
     
  18. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you run MFSR already? 1.0.0.4 can be found in the link below.

    MFS Reformatter (mfsr)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  19. fis

    fis Member

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    Turns out I had version 1.0.0.1.
    So sorry but where exactly is it? (That's a link to a 136 page discussion).
     
  20. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, linked to the post right above the correct one. Here is the corrected one.

    MFS Reformatter (mfsr)
     
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