4 Digit Sky radio channels - Discussion

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by scoopuk, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. Sep 13, 2005 #81 of 271
    Andy Leitch

    Andy Leitch Member

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    TiVo will have to release a software update....they will be legally forced to.

    Either they fix the four digit problem or they will have to release an update to remove the 'as recommended by Sky Digital' from the opening TiVo slide screen.

    If a product bearing that is not 100% compatible with Sky SD, they are probably breaking several conditions in the contract they have with Sky.

    Not least, they may even be breaking the Sale Of Goods Act, especially the 'Fit for the purpose' clause.

    'Fit for purpose' covers not only the obvious purpose of an item but any purpose you queried and were given assurances about by the trader.

    If the digit problem is not fixed, the product is not fit for the purpose of recording programmes from Sky Digital....a product which has the 'as recommended by Sky Digital' text.

    Does this mean damages in replacing TiVo with a PVR that does work with the new four digit channels??

    Maybe someone should remind TiVo, (and Sky too)....that little piece of text is still there.
     
  2. Sep 13, 2005 #82 of 271
    OzSat

    OzSat Very Nice Moderator

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    The "recommended by Sky' bit was dropped years ago and so I suspect no contract exists.

    The opening title bit remains as it would be too difficult to remove efficiently.

    The 'recommended by Sky' bit used to be there all the time.
     
  3. Sep 13, 2005 #83 of 271
    Andy Leitch

    Andy Leitch Member

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    I don't think the courts would see it that way.

    TiVo would have to remove it....it's copyright infringement. They are making claims and using someone else's trademark, in making a false statement.
     
  4. Sep 14, 2005 #84 of 271
    GarySargent

    GarySargent New Member

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    TiVo does not work with Box Office channels either. This arguament doesn't stand up.

    On release they didn't support radio channels - there was no guide data for them.
     
  5. Sep 14, 2005 #85 of 271
    sanderton

    sanderton TiVoer since 11/2000

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    My cornflakes are "as recommended" by the Queen. Do you think I could return them if she stopped eating them?

    My TiVo's box says it will work with OnDigital - should I sue?

    As TiVo out of the box does not support radio recording, I doubt it would have been considered a "purpose" of the machine. but even if it was, the damages referred to in the consumer protection legislation are moderated by age and the use you have had out of the device. After five years use of a consumer electronics device, it's unlikely that a court would consider there was much "unexpired" value in a TiVo. and of course your claime would be against teh retailer you bought it from, not TiVo.

    Incidentally, you used to be able to play that opening animation at any time from the remote; that was removed at the same time as "recommended by Sky" was taken off Now Playing. Presumably these things are connected.
     
  6. Sep 14, 2005 #86 of 271
    iankb

    iankb New Member

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    If you were right, technological advancement would be set back a decade. No manufacturer would dare release a product until it has been tested for many, many years, and each user would be forced to sign a 200-page document that states what the liability of the manufacturer is limited to. Lucky enough, you're not right.

    Now your TiVo is out of warranty, they are not obliged to fix it if your internal tuner packs up. The control of a Sky digibox is an optional extra and, if the Sky service packed up, I doubt that it could be treated any differently. Did you expect OnDigital to continue their service because they were legally obliged to?
     
  7. Sep 14, 2005 #87 of 271
    Andy Leitch

    Andy Leitch Member

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    The 'By Royal Appointment' hallmark can be withdrawn at anytime if any product bearing it is seen to be tarnishing the image of The Royal Household.
    To use it without Royal permission is copyright infringement.
    Maybe I should use the TiVo trademark and make false claims.

    Also, what impact will this have on used values of TiVo??

    Any person selling a TiVo will have to declare, (and I have ebay in mind here), that it is not fully compatible with Sky Digital. The FAQ on the TiVo Portal, will also have to be updated to reflect this.
     
  8. Sep 14, 2005 #88 of 271
    OzSat

    OzSat Very Nice Moderator

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    If Sky has given them permission then where is the infringement?
     
  9. Sep 14, 2005 #89 of 271
    OzSat

    OzSat Very Nice Moderator

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    I believe that the UK is the only territory with radio listings on TiVo.
     
  10. Sep 14, 2005 #90 of 271
    GarySargent

    GarySargent New Member

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    Sue me!
     
  11. Sep 14, 2005 #91 of 271
    sanderton

    sanderton TiVoer since 11/2000

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    Gary's point is the key one; TiVo has never worked with all channels on Sky, nor has it claimed to. It doesn't work with Box Office and it doesn't work on the porn channels. The manual or box make no claims about radio compatibility. "As recommended by" does not mean "guaranteed 100% compatibility with".

    The hyper-legal approach to this is not a direction which will bear any fruit.

    TiVo can add to or take away from the services its EPG provides at any time - your recourse is to cancel your sub. All of us have owned our TiVos long enough, and had enough valuable use out of them, that any claim for a refund or part refund on the purchase price would be laughed out of the small claims court.
     
  12. Sep 14, 2005 #92 of 271
    thechachman

    thechachman New Member

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    Well given we 'lifetime subbed' one less than eight months ago, in isolation that one box might be a different situation, but otherwise think you are spot on in all your thoughts (unfortunately)

    I also don't think that blustering/posturing is the way to approach this ...
     
  13. Sep 15, 2005 #93 of 271
    Ian_m

    Ian_m Active Member

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    A thought.

    Couldn't someone produce a "dongle", much like the NTL dongle thing, that took the TiVo IR lead in and produced new Sky software compatable IR. It would look for a radio station being asked for by the TiVo and retransmit with the required leading zero.

    I am sure someone with 8051 (or equivalent) programming experience could knock something up ?
     
  14. Sep 15, 2005 #94 of 271
    GarySargent

    GarySargent New Member

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    I had thought of that but it would mean buffering the whole IR signal so you can detect the channel number, so would drastically slow down channel changes.
     
  15. Sep 15, 2005 #95 of 271
    Ian_m

    Ian_m Active Member

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    Does speed matter ? as long as a channel change occured in say under 10-20 seconds. If you want high speed channel surfing, to press AUX on TiVo and use the Sky remote.
     
  16. Sep 15, 2005 #96 of 271
    mesaka

    mesaka travelling member

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    I agree speed would not matter to me - I use the excellent endpad and if the delay was very long I would just change my default 2 minutes start padding to 3 :up: :D
     
  17. Sep 15, 2005 #97 of 271
    xxxx

    xxxx New Member

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    Over the...
    No big deal. I bet the Sky-Eye chap is thinking about it now.
     
  18. Oct 10, 2005 #98 of 271
    richard plumb

    richard plumb New Member

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    can I check something?

    If I only record TV, does this affect me?

    I sometimes listen to Radio 2 or classic FM on TV, but I suppose I can just use the sky remote to switch over. Perhaps switch Tivo over to a channel I never record to make sure it switches over for any upcoming recordings

    That'd be a workaround, right?
     
  19. Oct 11, 2005 #99 of 271
    programx

    programx TiVo Tamer

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    I for one would be happy not to receive radio channels!

    I speak from the bitterness of seeing TiVo cancel its ITV recording of F1 in favour of the Radio 5 coverage. Gaaahh!!

    Oh well, Kimi is the true world champion, anyway :p Thats it for F1 for this year.

    Personally, I pay my £10 and I am happy to. I am aware it will be for little longer, but I have three valuable years out of it (and I was only expecting one having read the negative feedback on here) and have - unfortunately - yet to see a product that comes close to maintaining my higher quality of life as a result.

    £10 a month for poorly supported channels, but the freedom it gives to my evenings? I'd put it in TiVo's execs pockets myself if I could.
     
  20. Andy Leitch

    Andy Leitch Member

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    Apr 30, 2005
    How'd you manage that then?

    My SP/wishlist for Five Live Formula One hasn't recorded anything in over a year.

    I've reported it previously but it seems that Tribune operate a two-tier system and only TV listings seem to matter.
     

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