4 Digit Sky radio channels - Discussion

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by scoopuk, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. Aug 31, 2005 #21 of 271
    mrtickle

    mrtickle Active Member

    2,824
    0
    Aug 26, 2001
    Birmingham, UK
    Indeed. I really don't want to restart a new debate about whether or not it will happen, I thought that was long over. It's due very soon :(

    My point was they will still supply listings, for the Freeview and cable lineups. (They may or may not remove for the Sky lineup, leaning to wards "may" it seems). A solution could involve Gary's idea of dual lineups, using the Freeview listings but botched/hacked channel numbers (possible with a script intervening to assist with the channel changes *).

    We could test this now with a dual Sky/Freeview lineup to see if listings data was viewable on Tivo and it could be persuaded to record from the scart input instead of RF on the 2nd lineup?

    * LJ's red dot script waited for a recording to start, and then fired RF commands. A variation on this theme could wait for recordings on certain channels starting 1 minute early (dummy channel change by TiVo) and then fire RF (the real channel change with 4 digits).
     
  2. Aug 31, 2005 #22 of 271
    andyjenkins

    andyjenkins New Member

    258
    0
    Jul 29, 2001
    England, UK
    But I dont believe your paying £10 per month for software updates ... only TV guide data ??

    I thought that if you did not subscribe to TiVo's service - you'd still get any software updates available at the time, no ? Hence no relation to £10 per month to software updates.
     
  3. Aug 31, 2005 #23 of 271
    xxxx

    xxxx New Member

    528
    0
    Oct 17, 2002
    Over the...
    Sky digibox users get free updates as required, even if they don't subscribe to Sky. Freeview boxes get free software updates. My DVD player gets free updates. My ShowCenter gets free updates. My Zen Micro gets free updates. My copy of WinXP gets free updates. My ADSL router gets free updates.
    None of the above require any payment at all for use. So Tivo ought to do the same even without the monthly £10 they charge for the service. Given that they do charge a monthly £10 that's all the more reason why needed updates should be timely and free.
     
  4. Sep 6, 2005 #24 of 271
    aerialplug

    aerialplug Serious TiVo User

    1,181
    1
    Oct 20, 2000
    Swansea
    To be honest, do TiVo percieve it as a major problem? For quite some time we had no schedule information for any radio services. Granted, on Sky, we could set up manual recordings without the data as TiVo at least knew the radio station numbers but I remember it came as quite a suprprise to TiVo staff in the London "get to know the customers" evening they put on a few years ago that we wanted schedules for radio. It wasn't long after that meeting that Radio 4 and a few of the more "scheduleable" statios started getting data.

    Personally, I can't see a solution to the leading 0 problem coming from TiVo. They no longer provide support for series 1 TiVos - whether American or UK so I can't see a software update ever coming from them. The solution (if any) is almost certainly going to have to come from us with a possible minor support role from TiVo continuing to provide the data for channels that are technically not possible to recieve any more.

    My initial solution is to set up my freeview box in parallel with Sky so that Radio 4 gets recorded from there. Not ideal - mono instead of stereo but then Radio 4 on DAB is often mono...

    Some of the solutions proposed in this thread also sound very promissing - hopefully we'll have something that works on the great and dreadful channel renumber day ;)
     
  5. Sep 6, 2005 #25 of 271
    xxxx

    xxxx New Member

    528
    0
    Oct 17, 2002
    Over the...
    Personally, I can't see a solution to the leading 0 problem coming from TiVo. They no longer provide support for series 1 TiVos - whether American or UK so I can't see a software update ever coming from them.

    I see no reason why any decent company should imagine that they can stop supporting a product that is only 3 years old (or much less as in fact there are still some unused UK Tivos being newly registered now) and for which many people are still paying a hefty monthly fee. Earlier in this thread I gave a list of firmware and software that require no monthly fee for use and which are still fully supported by the manufacturers, with free updates as and when needed.

    Why should Tivo be different? Answers, on a postcard .........
     
  6. Sep 6, 2005 #26 of 271
    mrtickle

    mrtickle Active Member

    2,824
    0
    Aug 26, 2001
    Birmingham, UK
    Perhaps we could split this into two threads, one for discussions about the rights and wrongs of what is happening and the other for technical posts towards a hack/solution? I don't want the tech stuff to get lost in the other discussion, which is why I did a summary post last week
     
  7. Sep 7, 2005 #27 of 271
    Andy Leitch

    Andy Leitch Member

    189
    0
    Apr 30, 2005
    Probably because TiVo can be different.

    If they don't intend to invest the time and manpower to issue an upgrade, at least they could show some loyalty to the UK user and be open, upfront and honest about it.....and tell us!!

    The S1 software is obviously worthless to them, I think they should make the S1 software open source and let the community take it forward. In a similar way to id software does with there game engines.
    I've got the source for QIII, and I intend porting it across to AMiGAOS4, when I find the time, as I'm also a beta-tester for that OS which takes up most of my spare time.

    Either way, the four digit problem won't bother me, as I'm ditching TiVo shortly for the HD loveliness from Sky.
     
  8. Sep 7, 2005 #28 of 271
    tartan_haggis

    tartan_haggis MacTiVo

    130
    0
    Jun 13, 2005
    Cambridgeshire
    Making the TiVo S1 software open source is a great idea.

    Most manufacturers have an escrow agreement for their software, whereby a third party holds the source code etc. in case the manufacturer goes out of business. Under these circumstances, a user group is formed who is then responsible for the ongoing maintenance of the software on behalf of all users.

    Makes sense.
     
  9. Sep 7, 2005 #29 of 271
    GarySargent

    GarySargent New Member

    2,548
    0
    Oct 27, 2000
    W. Yorks, UK
    They should also give TiVo hardware away for free too and work as a charity.

    Making the source code open source may benefit the people using TiVo, but it certainly won't benefit TiVo the company and its shareholders who want people to upgrade to the latest machines for the new software.

    Don't forget that TiVo is a company with shareholders it has to account to who want the company to make as much profit as possible. I realise any kind of upgrade is not possible in the UK as the hardware is not available, but this is not the case in the USA.
     
  10. Sep 7, 2005 #30 of 271
    Andy Leitch

    Andy Leitch Member

    189
    0
    Apr 30, 2005
    TiVo don't make hardware in the UK, it's a Thomson box.

    Maybe someone should inform those shareholders, that there are people in the UK with bundles of cash in their sweaty hands....just waiting for a UK compatible HD TiVo. If TiVo don't want that money....there are other manufacturers who will gladly take it.

    Well that profit will soon be slightly smaller when I unsub my box and move over to a competing product.
     
  11. Sep 7, 2005 #31 of 271
    pgogborn

    pgogborn Well-Known Member

    8,787
    283
    Nov 11, 2002
    I thought that was more or less what they do.

    Current base price in the US after rebate is $50 (about £27).

    Actually, if you were fast on your feet before different rebate schemes were brought into line, recently you could have got paid $51 to get a new TiVo >
    http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/09/how_to_get_paid.html
     
  12. Sep 7, 2005 #32 of 271
    tartan_haggis

    tartan_haggis MacTiVo

    130
    0
    Jun 13, 2005
    Cambridgeshire
    Great. But the point I thought we were making is that this is also the TiVo that have put Series 1 on ice and are only providing a very basic support - the money is to be made from new Series 2 products in the USA.

    What I was saying is that accepted industry practice is to let the customer base take over the support of old, unsupported versions. Doing that would let TiVo concentrate its resources on the new stuff, thus maximising shareholder return instead of sinking money into a "dead" product.
     
  13. Sep 7, 2005 #33 of 271
    GarySargent

    GarySargent New Member

    2,548
    0
    Oct 27, 2000
    W. Yorks, UK
    No, in that situation people may stay on Series 1 because they can hack it more and add in new functionality not in Series 2 (which is still a closed system).

    From a business perspective, TiVo want to encourage people to upgrade, not stay on the old system.
     
  14. Sep 7, 2005 #34 of 271
    blindlemon

    blindlemon tivoheaven.co.uk

    5,577
    0
    May 12, 2002
    Malmesbury, UK
    So should we take TiVo's lack of interest in the 4-digit problem as a sign that there is shortly going to be something for us to upgrade to...? :cool: ;) :up:
     
  15. Sep 8, 2005 #35 of 271
    iankb

    iankb New Member

    6,468
    0
    Oct 9, 2000
    Reading, UK
    Don't see how they could, and still protect the many patents that the code would include. And those patents are still used within the S2 software.
     
  16. Sep 11, 2005 #36 of 271
    Captain Scarlet

    Captain Scarlet New Member

    769
    0
    Sep 12, 2003
    Spectrum...
    I understand that argument but when Tivo have no S2 uk model for us to upgrade to and we are still committed to their product then surely a way to support the 4 digit radio channels should be found.

    It would be a pain having to manually key 4 digits for all channels (especially Freeview) but since most channel changing is done by the box for us it wouldn't be that big a deal surely?
     
  17. Sep 12, 2005 #37 of 271
    mrtickle

    mrtickle Active Member

    2,824
    0
    Aug 26, 2001
    Birmingham, UK
    We're fast running out of time now. Digital Spy yesterday previewed the version of the EPG which has the 4-digit radio channels. :(
     
  18. Sep 12, 2005 #38 of 271
    GarySargent

    GarySargent New Member

    2,548
    0
    Oct 27, 2000
    W. Yorks, UK
    They also said it would take months to roll the software out - plenty of time to move to Freeview!
     
  19. Sep 12, 2005 #39 of 271
    Captain Scarlet

    Captain Scarlet New Member

    769
    0
    Sep 12, 2003
    Spectrum...
    It seeemed clear from that digitalspy article that it would take quite some time before the new EPG was rolled out to all makes and model of Sky Digibox past and present and that the channel numbers would not change until after the new EPG was fully rolled out and proven on all boxes.

    I would suspect November or early December is the most likely time for the channel numbers to change (just in time for xmas perhaps).

    Has everyone in this thread already lodged this as a formal issue with Tivo UK Customer Services on their 0870 number and also made it clear that we do expect it to be addressed, especially when many are still paying £10 per month for the Tivo program guide data service.

    If enough people complain they are far more likely to be inclined to do something.

    Also why not email the following members of the senior management team at Tivo Inc to register your concerns:-

    tom.rogers@tivo.com
    michael.ramsay@tivo.com
    brodie.keast@tivo.com
    art.clessuras@tivo.com
    ken.kershner@tivo.com
    luther.kitahata@tivo.com

    http://investor.tivo.com/management.cfm

    Luther Kitahata, who is Vice President of Software Engineering, may be the most relevant of these but would clearly need the approval of Brodie Keast and Art Clessuras to initiate the project. However they in turn might want Luther to tell them how much such a fix may cost Tivo.

    Since as I understand it the uk service still makes Tivo Inc a profit and since we have no upgrade path to a better box in the UK I am sure the US management team should understand the neeed to modify the software to cope with an EPG change made by their original uk business partner and current customer service supplier for Tivo.

    Although I have a dual source Sky Digibox and Freeview RF input setup on my Tivo I still have major issues with radio channels because the recent addition of Sky on our communal aerial setup has made the SDN Mux signal on Freeview too weak to receive reliably (that is most of the time). This is very bad news indeed as it knocks out BBC Radio 1 to 4 reception.

    Please do complain to Tivo customer services and email those above. If enough people bother complaining they might do something.
     
  20. Sep 12, 2005 #40 of 271
    GarySargent

    GarySargent New Member

    2,548
    0
    Oct 27, 2000
    W. Yorks, UK
    Why do you understand that the UK service makes a profit? They didn't say it directly, but I interpretted something they said to me recently to mean it didn't (possibly wrongly who knows).

    Mass emailing will only serve to piss them off.

    Sky are the ones that should be lobbied if anything. This change will also break control of STB's by most videos that support that feature.
     

Share This Page