20.7.4.RC30 has arrived......

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by samccfl99, Mar 2, 2018.

  1. rdrrepair

    rdrrepair Bill Knapp

    Nov 24, 2006
    845 New York
    I appreciate it anytime @TiVo_Ted tries to pull back the sausage making aspect of TiVo. I've tested things in the past for them and I'm also one to loathe going to gen4. I'll go back and refresh my devices and see what happens.
  2. reneg

    reneg Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    I'm also on Comcast and am seeing the glitches & no skip icons for some shows. They seemed to happen around the same time RC30 was loaded on my systems. It could be a coincident with Comcast mucking something up. Any chance you can roll some of us that are seeing the glitches to the previous release version to see if there is any correlation?
  3. morac

    morac Cat God

    Mar 14, 2003
    It’s not RC30. It’s affecting people without Tivo as well (except for the no skip)
  4. TiVo_Ted

    TiVo_Ted Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2000
    The team is still trying to triage this problem. We have enough reports now that they have good log data to comb through. Creating a group to downgrade is not easy. I'd rather give them a couple more days to investigate what's going on.
  5. TiVo_Ted

    TiVo_Ted Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2000
    You are obviously an experienced software developer, so I don't have to explain to you that not all bugs are going to get fixed. Every bug we fix is a resource trade-off against new feature development. The village approach is actually not a bad one. Even if we created a self-service Jira ticket system, we'd still have the same problem. Single bug reports aren't going to get much attention unless other users vote them up.

    My earlier comment about TE4 being a one-way street was an explanation about why we don't have as many TE3 testers anymore. Once a lot of our internal testers upgraded to TE4, we lost the ability to have them test TE3 releases like this one. The branch for TE3 was pulled a long time ago. It was far too much work to cherry-pick tons of changes from TE4 or mainline to fix the upgrade/downgrade issue.

    I'm sure there are customers who will choose to stay on TE3, and that's fine. We don't have any plans to force people to upgrade to TE4. However, I can guarantee that there are bugs in TE3 that will probably never get fixed. We will continue to prioritize critical ones, but TE3 just isn't going to get the attention that TE4 is getting.
  6. m.s

    m.s Active Member

    Mar 8, 2007
    That's a tautology. And cosmetic bugs, which the GP is just virtue signaling about, aren't mission critical. TiVo's primary testing concern should be (and apparently is, considering it's not happened) to not to "brick" any users given that recovery would be a major expense/PITA. Icons not showing? Mice nuts - that just takes a new release as long as the network/"upgrade" system works. Focus on the critical, nothing's perfect.

    (of course, providing some sort of side-load capability would ease the pain of the inevitable fatal error, and a download and USB drive restore are relatively simple to implement).
    LVKeith likes this.
  7. m.s

    m.s Active Member

    Mar 8, 2007
    Bring TE4 to at least feature parity with TE3 (local transfers instead of forcing web initiated transfers, and "live guide", for example), and you'd pull more people forward.
  8. jcthorne

    jcthorne Well-Known Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    I agree, get the TE4 feature set up to parity with what TE3 offers and many will move forward. I am ready to do so but will not until the ability to load video to the unit locally is in TE4 by some mechanism. The live guide is a concern but not what is preventing me from jumping to TE4.

    Alternatively, for me at least, would be MUCH better integration of items available from a Plex server. IE bookmarked Plex items available in now playing and plex items included in search results like they are for other streaming services.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
    krkaufman and bbrown9 like this.
  9. bbrown9

    bbrown9 Active Member TCF Club

    Mar 12, 2011
    This. Absolutely this. I prefer the grid guide, but video transfer is a big feature to lose. I have also gotten quite fond of the clock display on the screen with SPS9S.

    Put those features back and I'll give TE4 a try.
    jackstoker and V7Goose like this.
  10. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    Thanks for explaining the perspective. I see two things.

    TE4 needs more attention to improve stability and provide some of the lost functionality.

    TE3, are there current problems that can be fixed without major effort? Is YouTube streaming a low priority since other cheaper/better ways can be found? Is there a list of TE3 specific problems? The current art work issue was found on TE3, but would TE4 also have it if there was a software update?

    For the record, I'm using both. Thanks for the information. It really helps. Please keep it coming.
  11. DigitalDawn

    DigitalDawn Active Member

    Apr 26, 2009
    Jupiter, FL
    Now I could be wrong, but I don't think you will see the clock feature (SPS9S) going forward. I'm pretty sure the reason it was pulled was because of screen burn-in liability.

  12. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

    Jul 28, 2005
    If that's the case, that would be good then, right?
  13. BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Ditto what others have said about feature parity, and in the meantime you would get more upgraders and do customers a solid by releasing the emulator so they aren't completely without the features they want when they need them.

    Over the past couple years Tivo's been slowly stripping away features from TE3 that made them unique. I don't get it. They didn't listen much to what people had to say about TE4 either, apparently to get it out on time. I'm hoping you can be a course-correcting influence and not just go along with it. Push/pull transfers, live guide, and folder playback honestly shouldn't require moving mountains.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
    V7Goose, samccfl99 and caughey like this.
  14. jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

    Feb 4, 2008
    Actually, mine is working much better now. No longer hiccuping on LOADING after 20-25 min.
  15. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

    Dec 7, 2012
    Ashland, PA...
    I'll have to get it a try tomorrow. I don't use it for much, but I saw so many posts & threads I was hoping it would be fixed.
  16. morac

    morac Cat God

    Mar 14, 2003
    My biggest issue with TE4 is that My Shows is a cluttered mess and ordering is completely broken because the recordings view seems to take in to account streaming release dates when ordering groups by date. That makes it difficult to find recent recordings.

    TE3 has the same problem, but at least groups can be turned off to work around that issue. If not for that I’d probably upgrade to TE4.
  17. Jetspeedz

    Jetspeedz Member

    Dec 19, 2014

    Tivo is not a startup company, it is an established company which has been around for a long time. As a consumer it is not my concern if there are resource constraints, hire more developers and testers, your margins should allow you to do so since Tivo went cheap on customer support by sending it all offshore. I didn't pay for a device to become a beta tester and neither do most of your customers. It is quite telling if you believe the village approach is the right path for anomaly reporting and resolution. A web based front end JIRA style portal would at least give experienced and beta users the ability to see what has been reported and give them a chance to vote. Currently you have to go through an offshore or onshore rep having to listen to them tell you to reboot your box only after wasting your time for 30mins before they create a ticket which goes nowhere. Surely you don't think this is effective!

    I'm not saying it is your fault, I don't know your position in the company, however, corporations make decisions on what is more important and if Tivo management doesn't believe delivering bug free software is critical than so be it. I can tell you if I told my customer(s) a single instance of a bug reported would not get any attention b/c of resource constraints it wouldn't cut it, and, it is not indicative of a single industry either nor does it have to be mission critical; Cyber, Medical, Defense, Commercial etc, it is just good business practice period. You are only as good as your customer base and as soon as the next shiny alternative comes out you can bet your subscriber base will fall and so will the company who shuns their customers feedback and complaints as history has shown.

    TE3 branch was pulled yet you guys pushed out a buggy software release without fully testing it b/c of lack of resources? How does that make sense? Than don't push out an update which has not been fully tested through the proper cycle even post build. Why not provide an option to downgrade to the previous rev. Surely if the DB was in place off that branch so was the previous rev. Forcing users to upgrade to a faulty build that has been pulled and does not get tested is a good way to blunder your reputation.

    You reaffirmed my thoughts, so tough luck for folks on TE3 who prefer to stay on TE3. Tivo does not want to allocate enough resources to keep a majority of their existing customer base from having a good user experience and the bugs will never get fixed because internally the new shiny TE4 is more valuable than the bread and butter that serves the majority of customers up until recently. This type of arrogance never seizes to amaze me.

    Not that it matters anymore because the village has not reported this and likely this new bug you introduced in RC30 update that was not there on the previous rev which we can't downgrade to also broke the Netflix App with rendering and horz scan lines on certain programs. Guess I won't be using Netflix anymore through Tivo anymore on buggy TE3 RC30.
  18. buildersboy66

    buildersboy66 Active Member

    Dec 9, 2016
    What is major to me right now vs your future feature BS is three things. SKIP via Bolt+ Comcast Sub missing a lot of times, sudden ethernet disconnect Mini Vox (NO MOCA PERIOD), Mini VOX when turned on channel displayed/actual received not correct. To me and many these are major BUGS! I am so sick of this already. ENOUGH! Get this fixed! I actually got another router and modem to test out my mini's sudden ethernet disconnect issue. It is still happening, therefore 100% sure it is the mini's issue. I am so sick of being a trouble shooter for you, although I do not contribute or report issues in a well toned manner or at all. I wait and see here if others report similar issues. Not sure where you are to report issues, let alone to be believed at all by TiVo. Thus my lack of respect and willingness to contribute my own findings and issues.
    CloudAtlas and Jetspeedz like this.
  19. TiVo_Ted

    TiVo_Ted Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2000
    Wow, so many off-base comments I don't even know how to respond. Let's try bullets:
    - Our beta testers do have access to a Jira portal. If you go back and read my comment, you'll see that I was referring to the masses, not testers.
    - Business issues like margins are probably best not handled here, but our margins are not great
    - If you'd like to see my role in the company, click on my profile. For some reason, your profile is blank.
    - Bug-free software? I thought you were a developer. The only bug-free software is Hello World.
    - It is completely naïve to think that the same software development rules for Medical or Defense would apply to Consumer products
    - You clearly didn't read (or understand) my comments about branching. And, this was a packaging error, not a bug in the software release
    - Nowhere did I claim that we didn't have enough testing resources. I said that most of our testers are running TE4
    - In another 2 months, the majority of our customers will be on TE4, not TE3. That is not arrogance, it is just a fact
    mschnebly, UCLABB, oscarfish and 7 others like this.
  20. TiVo_Ted

    TiVo_Ted Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2000
    These sound like TE4 issues. Are you running TE3 or TE4? What error are you getting on the sudden Ethernet disconnect?

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