20.4.5 Release Notes

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by TiVoMargret, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    43 means your signal is weaker than mine. If you have cable, does your TV have diagnostics that show SNR also? I think the TiVo person may be wrong. If you said it was 5 or 10 then I could see an issue, but 43 is not going to overload your tuner. I am getting my numbers from a Premiere since my Roamio comes Friday. My TV is also 36, but I don't have any dedicated test equipment to be sure.
     
  2. SJJ

    SJJ New Member

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    One number was 100+, the other number was 43. I thought the first was signal strength and the other number was SNR (signal noise ratio?). TiVo cs said the 43 was too high. I should have taken picture of screen, too late now.
     
  3. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Ashland, PA...
    The 100 could be over 100 as was posted earlier. That's not good. It's a percentage of something, but I don't know what.
     
  4. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow isolated & distanced

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    Satan's...
    That would be this post, by me: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10324176#post10324176

    I think that post sums it up pretty nicely. I had a great post on fully explaining it, in a way anybody should understand, but can't remember what thread it was in...
     
  5. morac

    morac Cat God

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    I've never understood TiVo's "the signal is too hot" stance. That's just a pass the blame response. Unless you are plugging an electrical outlet into the coax port, the TiVo shouldn't be rebooting because of the input signal. If it is, that's a bug (and bugs like that have been fixed in the past).

    Most devices can handle upwards of +12 dB reliably and even then it would just cause picture breakup, not rebooting. 12 dB is 16 times as powerful as 0 dB and increases exponentially, so if you are getting above that something is wrong with your cable signals.

    Personally my TiVo boxes have nearly always shown 100 and never had issues. Currently on my Roamio Pro, my SNR is 42 which is very good considering the signal is split 6 ways internally.
     
  6. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow isolated & distanced

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    Satan's...
    The Plus and Pro both have internal amplification of the signal. So, a 100 strength and 42 SNR is typical (the reading is made on the amplified side), from what I read on here, with most reporting no problems (other than any call to TiVo about anything at all gets them told to attenuate).

    The base Roamio isn't internally amplified (or is minimally amplified), and those same numbers can be, and have been, problematic for some, including myself. I can have a 42 SNR on nearly every channel, and not have issues, as long as the strength isn't pegged at 100%, on the three base Roamios I have. I can see a 42 SNR on a channels that read 72% strength.

    I made a test call to TiVo CS, telling them I was having an issue with stability. They went straight to telling me to attenuate, right after all the other usual power-cycle script-monkey "support". I'd have to take my signal below 50%, just to get a SNR TiVo CS finds acceptable. By then, I'm lucky if any channels work. What a load of BS, on TiVo CS part...
     
  7. morac

    morac Cat God

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    Amplifying that close to the sink should wreak havoc with the SNR as it's also amplifying the noise. That's why it's always recommended to put an amp prior to the first splitter coming in to the house, if needed. That must mean that the Roamio must be doing some kind of magic inside to keep the SNR up. My cable modem has 8 downstream channels and it's SNR is 38 currently with +5 dB power.
     
  8. Jed1

    Jed1 Well-Known Member

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    Under normal circumstances the TiVo should only apply enough of amplification to achieve a gain of 0dBmV. I do believe with the Roamios you are getting a net gain of amplification of 12dBmV. This is to accommodate the possibility of using a 6 way split, if using MoCA, to cover the use of 6 minis on top of the 6 way split in the DVR.

    Normally you should be about 12 to 15dBmV hot at your demark box. So if you have a two way split for internet and video, you should be about 8 to 11 dBmV hot after the splitter. If you just have the TiVo and nothing else, you could end up way above 15dBmV at the tuner.
    Ideally a triple play cable system will be optimized to run at or slightly above 0dBmV when you have all three services. This will be one phone modem, one cable modem, and four TVs.
    Right now my cable modem is reporting between 0 to 2 dBmV and a SNR of 36 to 38 dBmV, which is perfect. I have 4 video devices, 2 WMC and 2 Premiere 4 TiVos, and my TiVos are reporting a signal strength of 88 to 92% and 35 to 37 dBmV across the whole downstream spectrum.
    In September, my node has been swept and optimized, and had a piece of the distribution cable replaced upstream of my house. I literally have a text book signal coming into my home.
    I can confirm that the SNR that the TiVos are showing are correct, as that is what is showing on my cable companies meter and my cable modem's diagnostics screen. I can also confirm that a too hot signal is way worse than a weak signal.
     
  9. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow isolated & distanced

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    Satan's...
    Since TiVo doesn't calculate SNR by industry standards, there's no way to know what "havoc" is being wreaked upon it... Otherwise, no disagreement here, or with the post before this one.
     
  10. Dec 2, 2014 #270 of 317
    ad301

    ad301 Member

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    Update: After installing enough attenuation to get my SNR down to 35 on all tuners, with signal strengths of 85-90, I've had two more freezes in the last 24 hours. Pulling the plug is the only solution.

    Maybe it's just coincidental that it started happening just after the 20.4.5 update, I don't know.

    I've already done a kickstart 54 which it passed.

    I'm waiting to hear back from TiVo CS to see what their next suggestion is.
     
  11. Dec 2, 2014 #271 of 317
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow isolated & distanced

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    Satan's...
    I've seen a few reports of their next suggestion being that you killed your TiVo by connecting too "hot" of a signal, and that isn't covered under their warranty.

    That's the worst case scenario, where they will offer you send you a refurb, for $199, and transfer your current service to the refurb TSN.
     
  12. Dec 3, 2014 #272 of 317
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    I'm certainly no expert, but is that explanation even technically possible? It sounds like a bunch of BS to me.
     
  13. Dec 3, 2014 #273 of 317
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow isolated & distanced

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    Satan's...
    I've seen it claimed, and seen the griping over the cost, several times. I've even seen one member claim it on two TiVos.

    Yes, TiVos lack enough protection to handle an extremely "hot" signal for extended periods of time. That's old news. But, some will still call BS, just because they have a hot signal, and whatever TiVo(s) they are feeding it to hasn't failed.

    Is it right in my book? No. Can TiVo deny warranty service over it? Yes.
     
  14. Dec 3, 2014 #274 of 317
    tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Well-Known Member

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    It still seems strange to me. I've never heard of any other device being permanently damaged in this manner. If the crappy cable company boxes and cheap HDTV tuners can handle it, I'm not sure why a TiVo can't. And I realize they operate on different frequencies, but the Plus/Pro have MoCA built in and that uses a much stronger signal than the cable company's signals.
     
  15. Dec 3, 2014 #275 of 317
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow isolated & distanced

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    Satan's...
    It just is what it is. TiVo seems to get away with it. I've seen complaints about it on their social media outlets as well. I'd bet the ones that allegedly get fried, are really just ones that would have been borderline, and intermittently problematic, with some inevitably failing, regardless of signal strength, and TiVo just looks at the logs for hot signals, to get out of eating a warranty return for a defective tuner.
     
  16. Dec 3, 2014 #276 of 317
    ad301

    ad301 Member

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    I just called CS and they think it's just a case of a hardware failure of some sort. They are charging me $49 for a new replacement box. (Plus tying up a deposit until I send back the bad box.)

    I've had many different TiVos going back to 2001, and this is the first hardware failure I've ever had, save for a couple of HDDs which I replaced myself. So I guess I can't complain too much.

    Sorry for sidetracking this thread, I guess it was just a coincidence that my hardware went south at the same time as the new release. Let's hope so, anyway!
     
  17. Dec 3, 2014 #277 of 317
    globalgreg

    globalgreg Member

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    Did you have a lifetime sub? If so are they transferring it for you?
     
  18. Dec 3, 2014 #278 of 317
    mvalpreda

    mvalpreda Member

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    And when it won't complain about a jailbroken device? :(
     
  19. Dec 3, 2014 #279 of 317
    ad301

    ad301 Member

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    Yes and yes.
     
  20. Dec 3, 2014 #280 of 317
    globalgreg

    globalgreg Member

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    That's killing me. The usual xcon or TSProtector don't work for the TiVo app on iOS 8 yet.
     

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