1st June 2011

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by microbe, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Steve_K

    Steve_K Member

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    May 5, 2001
    Sussex, UK

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    Thanks TCM, dd and Spitfires re the agreement detail. Have replied in The agreement thread


    sadly you are dead right, they will say out of time

    Re the patents comemnts, TiVo have been rather successful over the years at protecting their IPR in patent disputes. It's likely Sky+ infringes some of them but I can't find that TiVo ever patented their inventions in the UK. A quick search says they hold 330 patents worldwide, mostly in the USA. Either way Sky would be at serious copyright risk implementing a TiVo like user interface and since I reckon TiVo still smart from Sky utterly shafting them with Sky+. So Sky+/HD will continue to be tolerable but never anything like as good.

    Do TiVo care about their reputation here? They must do, why else would they have implemented that big functional upgrade (in 2002?) and continued to support added IR codes over the years. So they might get shamed into doing something for the small number of users they may have to cover (ie not VM area, non modified/repaired TiVo user with lifetime sub). I can't see it would go beyond refunding the sub.

    If anyone's got the energy to think about legal pursuits of TiVo (I haven't) how many of us are game to help fund real (rather than amateur) legal advice (I am - both willing to help and an amateur :eek:)
     
  2. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Virgin and Tribune announced a direct deal on VM TiVo guide data; no reason to think it routes through TiVos servers unless you have more info?

    The US servers will of course still exist, but will TiVo pay for guide data to populate them? It seems not.
     
  3. yesj

    yesj New Member

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    Feb 15, 2011
    From the TiVo Service agreement updated in december 2010

    14. Product Lifetime Subscriptions. A "Product Lifetime Subscription" to the TiVo service covers the life of the TiVo DVR you buy – not the life of the subscriber. The Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR in case of ownership transfer. The subscription remains in effect if the TiVo DVR needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer or retailer warranty details) or even if you upgrade your TiVo DVR to increase storage capacity (though such upgrades, if not performed by TiVo or a TiVo-authorized third party, will void the warranty on your TiVo DVR and constitute a breach of this Agreement). Because a Product Lifetime Subscription is linked to a particular TiVo DVR, you may not transfer it to any other TiVo DVR unless all the following conditions apply: (a) the TiVo DVR is being replaced pursuant to the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty; and (b) the TiVo DVR being replaced is of the same make and model as the replacement TiVo DVR; and (c) you provide us with a proof of replacement by the manufacturer or retailer. TiVo reserves the right to charge you a fee to transfer Product Lifetime Service from a TiVo DVR being replaced to a replacement TiVo DVR. Each TiVo DVR purchased requires its own TiVo service subscription and activation. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty).
     
  4. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    That same agreement also says they can stop your subscription at any time and for no reason.

    The lifetime sub meant no fees for the lifetime of the box, not a promise to continue the service forever. the former is what most people understood they were buying; the latter is clearly bonkers.

    Even if TiVo were in breach of the contract, the maximum damages payable would be the amount you were out of pocket. Which assuming you took out the lifetime more than 20 months ago is £0.
     
  5. yesj

    yesj New Member

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    Feb 15, 2011

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  6. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    As I said, at agreement says they can cancel your sub at any time, if they give a month's notice.
     
  7. ColinYounger

    ColinYounger It wasn't me.

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    Southsea,...
    yesj - have you replaced the HD or put a network card in? If so, you've broken the agreement.
     
  8. Furball

    Furball Totally TiVo

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    Dec 6, 2001
    Hampshire...
    TiVoPony (Bob) is very quiet :confused:

    Be nice too actually hear what TiVo themselves have to say from the horses mouth (excuse the pun) about this whole affair :(

    It seems such a shame that folks without a VM service are just being dumped on after years of loyal service, I've put many people onto VM who were not aware of TiVo and its up and coming goodies that it would offer, wont bother anylonger.

    As for the 1000 special ticket offer, well that makes Roys and the whole VM pre-registration affair a total and utter farce :thumbsdown:

    You'd have thought they would have at the very least gone down the route of giving the first 1000 to folks who had a S1 as a kind of thank you for keeping the TiVo alive in the UK.

    Ah well thats big business for you and the reason I jumped ship from my employer 5yrs back ................cos loyalty is for muppets these days :(

    Furball
     
  9. mas

    mas 274GB, Oct 2000-2011

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    Jan 12, 2002
    West...
  10. sad_tivo_man

    sad_tivo_man New Member

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    Apr 27, 2003
    I'm trying to get some US newspapers interested. Something along the lines of "TiVo dumps UK Series 1 owners. Is the US next?".
     
  11. cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Feb 11, 2002
    Knaresboroug...
    Yeah. Something got confused im my head there. Sorry :eek:

    Aww shucks! :D Seriously, you just cheered me up.

    Only because a lot of it is, in my (and others, by the looks of it) opinion, quite simply wrong.
     
  12. TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    They've dumped UK S1 owners because we're in the UK not because we're S1, why would US S1 owners be next? :confused:
     
  13. irrelevant

    irrelevant Member

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    Mar 19, 2002
    Salford, UK


    Maybe a "but plucky amateurs are trying to keep it going" as well? We don't want everybody throwing them away quite yet!!
     
  14. sad_tivo_man

    sad_tivo_man New Member

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    Apr 27, 2003
    Very true but that won't get the interest of US papers. You need something with a US slant. Contacting the press in the UK won't bother TiVo Inc one iota, in my opinion.
     
  15. einstein

    einstein New Member

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    Jul 19, 2001
    Can someone explain to me in laymans terms

    Why?
     
  16. rilian

    rilian New Member

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    Sep 23, 2003
    I have a new, unopened TiVo PSU and spare peanut remote (boxed, new); headed for landfill I suppose but I'd planned to keep mine going indefinitely.

    I use a (10 year old!) Sky Digibox (non-Plus). Does anyone know if there's a way to get Sky to upgrade me to a SkyPlus Digibox cheaply? I know they're dreadful but better than nothing I suppose. Maybe if I threaten to cancel...

    Alternatively can a homebrew solution like MythTV record from Sky ?
     
  17. spitfires

    spitfires wassock

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    Dec 19, 2006
    South Coast, UK
    Sorry but there is no "technicality".

    The Lifetime Subscription (note to others it's Lifetime Subscription *not* Lifetime Service) simply says that you will not be charged any more money for the Service - it does not give ANY guarantees about (a) the quality of, (b) the content of, or (c) the duration of that Service.

    The Termination clause clearly states that the Service can be shut down with 30 days' notice.


    TiVo have in fact given 107 days rather than 30, and will have given everyone free Service for over 6 months - any judge would decide they were being more than generous and ask you close the door on your way out.
     
  18. irrelevant

    irrelevant Member

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    Mar 19, 2002
    Salford, UK
    Don't give up quite so quickly... people are trying to work out an alternative!

    There are alternatives, but noting that's anything like as good.
     
  19. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Why would U.S. S1 owners be next? Because by now probably most of those who were paying monthly have replaced their S1s with S2s or higher, and most of the remaining working S1s are "Lifetimed", which means servicing them with data is an ongoing cost with no offsetting revenue stream.
     
  20. katman

    katman New Member

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    Jun 4, 2002
    East Anglia
    The main difference being that the EPG has to be kept alive for those with S2 and higher machine so there isnt an inherant cost in doing so.

    Here in the UK, the "New" Tivo service is for a single cable company with only the one channel lineup whereas the existing Tivo service covered analogue Terrestrial TV (much of which has closed down the the remainder wll do so by next year) with all its regional variations, Digital Terrestrial, Freesat, Sky and Virgin Cable, therefore the EPG requirements for the old service are more demanding.

    If Tivo did want to force an upgrade of US Series 1 units then I guess they could. Am I right in thinking that there currently ISNT any hurdle to an S1 user moving onto a newer machine in the States (other than financial), unlike here where at least 50% of current users have NO option to upgrade unless they physically relocate their home !!!
     

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