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Comcast to go ALL DIGITAL in Portland.

7K views 36 replies 16 participants last post by  ciper 
#1 ·
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/10/31/comcast-plans-to-go-all-digital-in-portland/

Which of course means... Your S1 & S2 TiVo's will be dead in the water without a Comcast STB or Comcast DVR.

Of course your S3/HD/HD-XL will be just fine!

TGC

P.S. For those in the DFW area... I talked to my contact here at the corp. TWC office.

DFW will be switching to ALL DIGITAL (NO analog cable at all) by the end of 2010.
 
#2 ·
That would be great for folks in DFW who are looking forward to new services, but I wouldn't get to the point where you'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen by then (unless your contact is willing to put it in writing on company letterhead :)).
 
#3 ·
Of course it also means that every TV (NTSC/ATSC/QAM) in your house just becomes a monitor for a Comcast STB. I understand the desire for cable cos to move to digital just for bandwidth/revenue reasons but in my neck of the woods, it's a $5/month rental per box.

Interestingly enough, when 3 popular channels (including Cartoon Network) were moved from analog to digital in my area this past week, I called Comcast and was immediately told that this was because of the February 2009 transition to digital by a CSR. I said, wait, slow down and repeat this again. After having her repeat this line several times and insuring that I heard it correctly, I pointed out that cable and satellite companies are unaffected by the FCC mandated Feb 2009 transition from NTSC to ATSC. After pressing her more and more, it was a very obvious attempt by Comcast to "entice" the customer to move to a higher tier based on any possible confusion over the digital transition. She quickly offered 3 STBs for free which I accepted.

Saga continues and I call back to confirm that these 3 STBs are rental charge free, the second agent confirms this and he also insists I'll need these boxes because of the February 2009 transition to digital. I immediately ask for a supervisor and BEGIN to explain the situation and he quickly cuts me off and says the CSRs are wrong about the digital transition. Both of them. Absolutely wrong. They don't know what they're talking about. (Followed by another 5 or so damage control statements).

In the end, the boxes are completely incompatible with my local system (go figure that Comcast doesn't know this) and that my real cost is $5/box/month.

So many of us are prepared with HD Tivos with free (or fairly low cost) cable cards but those TVs in the kitchen, guest room, kid's room, PC tuner card, (and yes S1 and S2) etc. just got a bit more expensive and it's not because they only have NTSC tuners ....
 
#4 ·
All because some customers want more services instead of analog service. And this writing has been on the wall for a while: All of Comcast direct competitors (DirecTV, Dish Network, FiOS, U-verse, RCN, etc.) require a box on every television, too.
 
#6 ·
And that's really not a good thing for them, especially with folks on the regulated tier, where in many cases, the fees charged are lower than costs, ostensibly made up by profits from higher tiers. And in light of how much some FCC people want to cap total number of subscribers, anything that Comcast can legally do to trade lower tier customers for higher tier customers is surely something they should do, in fulfilling their fiduciary obligations.
 
#7 ·
My impression was that cable companies could go all digital before February if they wanted, but if they could only do so if they provided set-top boxes to all customers free of charge replicating the service they previously had. That's why it's been largely limited in many areas. Am I wrong about that?
 
#8 ·
They can go all digital anytime they want, and there was some evidence last year that that is what the FCC wanted. The only requirement is to maintain service to analog TV sets. That could be done with a box, and they are not forbidden from charging customers from using that box.
 
#9 ·
Of course it also means that every TV (NTSC/ATSC/QAM) in your house just becomes a monitor for a Comcast STB. I understand the desire for cable cos to move to digital just for bandwidth/revenue reasons but in my neck of the woods, it's a $5/month rental per box.
Actually, it doesn't. The Comcast guy quoted here says that expanded basic will be provided in clear QAM after the digital conversion. So any new TV should be able to pick up the same channels on digital that they used to get on analog. Very good news, IMO, because now you won't need boxes when you replace old TVs. And the DTAs they are providing should be cheap as well (maybe $1-2 a month, we'll see).
 
#10 ·
Interestingly enough, when 3 popular channels (including Cartoon Network) were moved from analog to digital in my area this past week, I called Comcast and was immediately told that this was because of the February 2009 transition to digital by a CSR. I said, wait, slow down and repeat this again. After having her repeat this line several times and insuring that I heard it correctly, I pointed out that cable and satellite companies are unaffected by the FCC mandated Feb 2009 transition from NTSC to ATSC. After pressing her more and more, it was a very obvious attempt by Comcast to "entice" the customer to move to a higher tier based on any possible confusion over the digital transition. She quickly offered 3 STBs for free which I accepted.
....
There may be some slight truth to this..

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6584204.html

As I am interpreting this ruling, if a station chooses must-carry status on the cable system, the cable company must carry their digital signal and their analog as well. Kind of double carriage for the same signal. They might need to move analog signals to digital to free up some room for the digital signal of these stations.

Do I believe this is the case.....nope.

The most likely reason to move these channels is to move people to digital boxes and get more revenue and to use the DTV transition to "entice" people to get a box.
 
#13 ·
CFR 76.64(f)(4):

"New television stations and stations that return their analog spectrum allocation and broadcast in digital only shall make their initial election any time between 60 days prior to
commencing broadcast and 30 days after commencing broadcast or commencing
broadcasting in digital only; such initial election shall take effect 90 days after it is made."
 
#15 ·
the transition in Feb 2009 mainly affects local broadcast stations. They have to stop broadcasting in analog and switch to digital signals which is why analog TV's will need digital converters.

One main reason why cable companies are moving channels from analog tiers over to digital is because one analog channel uses up more bandwidth than one digital channel does. By moving those channels to digital, extra bandwidth is freed up which allows them to add more HD channels. Consumers who have HDTV's want more HD channels; this change allows that to happen.
 
#16 ·
Obviously Portland, OR is much larger than P-town, ME - but which one are we talking about? And are we talking burbs too? Is this going to make me have to upgrade my plan? I have analog super basic ($12/mo) just to get Discover - I use antenna for everything else.
 
#17 ·
Here is the FCC link regarding which channels will be affected in the transition: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/DTVandLPTV.html

Depending on your cable company, each market may determine which channels will be moved from an analog tier to a digital one to free up bandwidth. If you have a coax cable connected to an analog TV & depending on who your cable provider is, you may not need a digital converter to receive your basic cable channels.
 
#18 ·
Obviously Portland, OR is much larger than P-town, ME - but which one are we talking about?
Hey, we had the name first. Why did Maine steal it from us? :)

Ok, maybe we didn't have the name first. But at least it's better than it could have been. If I recall correctly, one of the other names that was considered for the town in Oregon was "Boston". As Dave Barry would say: "I am not making this up!"
 
#19 ·
Here is the FCC link regarding which channels will be affected in the transition: http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/DTVandLPTV.html

Depending on your cable company, each market may determine which channels will be moved from an analog tier to a digital one to free up bandwidth. If you have a coax cable connected to an analog TV & depending on who your cable provider is, you may not need a digital converter to receive your basic cable channels.
That document refers to OTA broadcasts and has nothing to do with basic cable channels.
 
#20 ·
Actually, it doesn't. The Comcast guy quoted here says that expanded basic will be provided in clear QAM after the digital conversion. So any new TV should be able to pick up the same channels on digital that they used to get on analog. Very good news, IMO, because now you won't need boxes when you replace old TVs. And the DTAs they are providing should be cheap as well (maybe $1-2 a month, we'll see).
I am in DFW and have heard the same news TexasGrillChef is reporting on TWC’s plans for North Texas:
  • eliminating all but analog basic cable in Feb. 2009
  • going all digital by end of 2010
I have been wondering what the plans are for support all those analog outlets out there. The link that slowbiscuit provided was very interesting. I searched further and I turned up some more information on the boxes Comcast is planning to roll out in Portland:
This is interesting in that it looks like they will have to send channel mapping info in the stream that these clear QAM boxes can interpret to get the channel map as I doubt that they will force these customers to learn the new xxx-y channel mapping and deal with changes as they move the channels around.
The implications for TiVo users are:
  1. TiVo will need to add IR tuning capability for these DTA converters (like they did for the OTA converters) if they want to keep their S2 subscribers on systems that make the conversion.
  2. TiVo could add clear QAM mapping support to the S3/THD to target this customer base with a digital DVR, thereby making the S3/THD boxes usable on digital cable systems without CableCards. (Assuming these systems employ a standard way of sending the channel map, which I assume is true is Motorola, Cisco, Thompson, etc. are all making these units.)

I hope TWC goes this way and TiVo comes through with IR codes for the new boxes enables clear QAM mapping for S3.
 
#21 ·
One main reason why cable companies are moving channels from analog tiers over to digital is because one analog channel uses up more bandwidth than one digital channel does. By moving those channels to digital, extra bandwidth is freed up which allows them to add more HD channels. Consumers who have HDTV's want more HD channels; this change allows that to happen.
This is certainly partly true. However, cable companies have wised up by now. They are now doing it to try to entice customers to their digital tiers. Once they get you on digital they can offer more options (more tiers, vod, etc) that bring them more money. For instance my local Charter has moved way more analog channels to digital in the last year than they have added in HD channels. So it's hard for me to completely buy the argument cable companies are making.
 
#23 ·
I presume you mean eliminating all _analog_ but analog basic cable?
Yes, I mean Analog Basic cable... Channels 2-99.

Or in other words... the so called SD-TV Cable ready TV's that you can get channels 2-99 basic analog cable with currently. OR S1's and S2's... will NO LONGER be able to receive ANY cable directly. A DIGITAL STB/DVR WILL BE REQUIRED!

This has nothing to do with the February 17th, broadcast switch to digital.

This is expected to happen in the Dallas-Fort Worth area by the end of 2010,
OR to put it another way, A DIGITAL STB/DVR will be required to obtain ANY cable service after they make this switch (By the end of 2010).

Suffice it to say... if you have an older 4:3 Analog SD-TV.... By the end of 2010 you will be required to use a DIGITAL to Analog STB/DVR of some sort. Either one designed for OTA, Cable, Satalite or other video input device.

TGC
 
#25 ·
Suffice it to say... if you have an older 4:3 Analog SD-TV.... By the end of 2010 you will be required to use a DIGITAL to Analog STB/DVR of some sort. Either one designed for OTA, Cable, Satalite or other video input device.
TGC - you seem to have a lot of insight into TWC in North Texas. Do you have any info on whether the DTA boxes I mentioned above will be deployed? Needing a box is one thing, but it will be a lot more palatable if I get 2 free DTA boxes with the option of addditional at $1.99/mo that forcing me to rent full-up boxes for $5.99.
BTW, I just checked TWC pricing and see that SD boxes are the same price as HD boxes at $5.99. (In fact, HD-DVR's are the same price but they require either $2.99/$9.99 DRV fee for signle/dual tuners.)
 
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