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S3 Audio Delay

4K views 20 replies 16 participants last post by  BOMOON 
#1 ·
I've got an S3 with my cable cards all set up (Comcast in Philadelphia) and I'm noticing that in a lot of situations, I've got a 1-2 frame audio delay from the video. This is odd to me since I figure that video is a lot harder to process.

I've tested this over HDMI and Component and also via the optical digital out. The problem persists. I've also tested recorded and live HD and SD content. This appears to happen more on HD.

I'm wondering a) if anyone else is having/has had this issue and b) if Tivo has plans to add a settable video delay feature so I can synch this stuff up.

After spending $5000 on a tv and the Tivo my girlfriend is making fun of the fact that things now look worse then they did before..

help..
 
#6 ·
I have started to notice this too.

AFTER "upgrading" to the S3.

I NEVER saw this on Series 1 or Series 2 TiVos.

And my new S3 is recording SD, no cable cards.

I have notice audio sync problems several times.

Me thinks the OS needs some work.
 
#7 ·
ig88 said:
I have started to notice this too.

AFTER "upgrading" to the S3.

I NEVER saw this on Series 1 or Series 2 TiVos.

And my new S3 is recording SD, no cable cards.

I have notice audio sync problems several times.

Me thinks the OS needs some work.
So do you have an audio / video sync issue with your S3? Did it ever happen on your Series 1 or Series 2? I only ask because you haven't been clear in about this in your posts.
 
#9 ·
Is this problem with only analog? I've watched several hours on my S3 but only HD and had no A/V sync problems. And that is using HDMI going from the S3 to a VP50 then with optical to my reciver . 95% of what I watch is HD so I hope I won't have a problem.
So far the S3 is like my HR10-250 boxes only faster and better. Hopefully when I add cable this weekend it will stay as good as OTA ATSC has been.
 
#11 ·
I'm seeing it mostly on HD programs and mostly on NBC. It seems like the audio is some kind of mono track as well.. it certainly doesn't sound like surround.. and this is on HDMI, regular RCA on my tv and also optical through my surround system (all 3 cases)..

It is worse using one cable card than the other..

I am at my wits end with this..
 
#12 ·
neodem said:
It seems like the audio is some kind of mono track as well.. it certainly doesn't sound like surround.. and this is on HDMI, regular RCA on my tv and also optical through my surround system (all 3 cases)..
This was mentioned in the AVS forums. Appartenly some stations (NBC seems to be the worst offender) improperly encodes the Digital 5.1 surrond into Dolby Pro 2.0, grabbing only the left and right channels. Of course most of the speech is in the center channel. This causes two problems, first, the sound is real low, secondly, you can hear the echo artifacts from grabbing only these side channels.
 
#13 ·
My LCD TV has an audio sync adjustment that I can make to bring the audio and video back in sync with each other. It adjusts the video because my audio doesn't go through the TV. I have my series 3 hooked up with HDMI and then an optical out straight from the tivo to my receiver. If you are running an optical out from your TV to your receiver figuring that the TV will pass the digital audio track from the HDMI input, that would probably explain the lack of surround sound. Most TV's will pass a signal along, but it won't be the dolby digital signal. I did that for a few days before I did more research and then plugged the tivo straight into the receiver and it sounded a lot better.
 
#14 ·
A2Tivo said:
This was mentioned in the AVS forums. Appartenly some stations (NBC seems to be the worst offender) improperly encodes the Digital 5.1 surrond into Dolby Pro 2.0, grabbing only the left and right channels. Of course most of the speech is in the center channel. This causes two problems, first, the sound is real low, secondly, you can hear the echo artifacts from grabbing only these side channels.
A2 so was a resolution ever discussed in the AVS forums? I have been having this NBC issue as well and it is driving me crazy. Time Warner tries to fix it by resending the signal to the CC and Tivo has me restart my box. Obvisouly neither of those have fixed anything.
 
#15 ·
wickerbill said:
My LCD TV has an audio sync adjustment that I can make to bring the audio and video back in sync with each other. It adjusts the video because my audio doesn't go through the TV.
I can't imagine how this would work since audio sync problems are almost always that picuture is delayed relative to audio, and to fix it your TV would need to advance the picture in time. Which isn't possible without violating causality. If both picture and sound come out of the same box, you can move sync in either direction, but in the normal fix is to delay the audio.

While the S3 may have some issues with sync (and let's hope TiVo fixes them), you are never going to get perfect sync on everything. Sync differs for different program sources, and the circuitry in different televisions take different amounts of time to process the signal. Different shows (and different DVDs) have different standards for, and equipment to judge, sync.

Some receivers have the capability to delay audio built in, though in some cases it will not be enough. I recently purchased this gizmo on a friend's recommendation. It's pretty flexible in that it allows two inputs (i.e., one for TiVo, one for DVD player), each with default settings and manual adjustment. It has a remote, but I plan to integrate its functions into my Harmony 880. I'll install it this weekend an let folks know how it works.

(Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with the companies that make or sell these things. I stand to gain nothing financially from recommending (or not recommending) the product.)
 
#16 ·
ChuckyBox said:
I can't imagine how this would work since audio sync problems are almost always that picuture is delayed relative to audio, and to fix it your TV would need to advance the picture in time. Which isn't possible without violating causality. If both picture and sound come out of the same box, you can move sync in either direction, but in the normal fix is to delay the audio.

While the S3 may have some issues with sync (and let's hope TiVo fixes them), you are never going to get perfect sync on everything. Sync differs for different program sources, and the circuitry in different televisions take different amounts of time to process the signal. Different shows (and different DVDs) have different standards for, and equipment to judge, sync.

Some receivers have the capability to delay audio built in, though in some cases it will not be enough. I recently purchased this gizmo on a friend's recommendation. It's pretty flexible in that it allows two inputs (i.e., one for TiVo, one for DVD player), each with default settings and manual adjustment. It has a remote, but I plan to integrate its functions into my Harmony 880. I'll install it this weekend an let folks know how it works.

(Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with the companies that make or sell these things. I stand to gain nothing financially from recommending (or not recommending) the product.)
I'm with you on why it shouldn't work, but it works. The audio is going out of the back of the tivo through an optical cable and straight into the back of the receiver. Video is going from the tivo to my LCD through HDMI. Audio and video signals are kept totally separate. Only thing I can think of is that the TV has a built in delay on the video and I have to adjust it to reduce that delay to make it sync up with the audio. I am just happy I can get it set up so that they match.
 
#17 ·
adamsd said:
A2 so was a resolution ever discussed in the AVS forums? I have been having this NBC issue as well and it is driving me crazy. Time Warner tries to fix it by resending the signal to the CC and Tivo has me restart my box. Obvisouly neither of those have fixed anything.
It's the station's fault, not your cable company.
There is no resolution when the station is screwing things up. You can call and complain, but I doubt that it will get you anywhere, especially since the people you'll talk to will have no idea what you're talking about. Hopefully the stations will eventually wise up and get their HD act together. Don't hold your breath.
 
#18 ·
My S3 has an intermittent problem where the audio gets out of sync with the video on playback. Happens on both SD and HD programs. Audio can sometimes get out of synch as much as a second. Mostly I catch it when the time error is much smaller, but if you let it go, sometimes it gets worse.

I can fix it by stopping the program, going back to the menu, and then "resume playing".

Because I can fix the problem this way, this is obviously a playback software bug.

I see others also have audio sync problems, but some blame them on the source material, etc. Because I can fix the problem by restarting, I know the bug is in the TiVo.

I sure wish TiVo would fix this.
 
#19 ·
Respectfully, I'm not sure that your problem reflects all of the sync problems.
I have been working on multiple issues for over a year. Two cards in the Tivo, one card in the TV. What a NIGHTMARE!

I finally figured out that I should focus exclusively on the cablecard in the TV, since I can at least isolate the issues at that point of contact without involving Tivo computers et al.

I have had so many service calls that I am surprised that TWC lets this just go on and on. But I suspect there may be a labor problem, here. There seems little resistance to my now WEEKLY service appointment with TWC. This has been going on for over a year! No, you can't even imagine.

I can tell you that I am having the audio/visual sync problem with the card IN the TV. I have replaced the card twice. Still, the sync problem persists. So, it isn't JUST a Tivo problem.

Like everything else associated with the cable card technology, it is a complete fiasco.

Reading something about card technologies, the engineers have designed a multi-path decryption key, otherwise known as a cable card.

In so doing, as best I can discern, they have screwed the pooch on the multiple encryptions. I think this stuff requires programming so advanced that the companies involved are simply not up to the task of servicing it. In short, it is WAY over their heads.

I would like to hear from others who might have had similar issues. I gather that getting a card that is fully functional requires a long game of Russian Roulette. You just keep trying cards until you come across one that works.

I am seriously considering going back to cable boxes. This has been just a disaster from all ends.

One thing is certain; I plan to get acquainted with someone over at FCC before I end this grueling chapter.

The idea wasn't bad. The implementation very much has the feel of a goverment bureaucracy that handed down an edict with no concept of requiring follow through. Of course, governments can get away with things that would drive the average corporation bankrupt in a matter of weeks.

TRMN
 
#20 ·
I doubt to the extreme that faulty cablecards will be the cause of Audio/Video sync problems. Cablecards are actually rather simple... All of the complexity in a cable card relates to keeping the keys themselves secure; the encryption is well-understood. Encrypted data stream comes in, rey-encrypted data stream + Key (to be decrypted elsewhere) comes out.

It does NOT decrypt the audio and video separately; it's all one stream. It doesn't have the chance to knock them out of sync with each other.

Sync issues can only occur in one of two places: The Studio Headend, or the Customer Equipment.

If the Studio's codecs are out of sync, then the product will be out of sync with no chance to recover it.

If the Customer Equipment is decoding the streams (not deCRYPTING) and getting out of sync with frame delay correction, well...

But either way, the cablecard is innocent.
 
#21 ·
I'm now seeing an audio delay. I have the S3 unit. My service is Comcast in southern NH. I haven't tried all of the channels, but right now it seems to be limited to the satellite ones. The locals are OK.

Does anyone have a working solution for this, or is it out of our hands as some of the other posters have suggested?

I'm ready to jump back to DirecTV provided they can put the dish where I can reach it to wipe water, snow, and other crap off the dish and receiver. As you can see, I've had a lot of experience with them.

That might fix my A/V sync problem provided the S3 isn't causing it, because those stupid-a** cable cards will be gone. Unfortunately the S3 will become a standalone something-or-other (downloader and player mostly) because it doesn't do satellite. Oh well. The bottom line is that I'm out almost a thousand bucks because I was naive enough to buy the lifetime subscription.

Sorry to pile that vent on top of the A/V sync report.

Have a good one,
 
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