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TiVo Alternatives?

98K views 1K replies 105 participants last post by  Pokemon_Dad 
#1 ·
I've been a TiVo user since the Series 1 some 18 (!) years ago. The whole point was to time-shift and skip commercials. We've had our ups and downs, but our Bolt (lifetime sub) + 3 Minis are working fine. The minis are too slow and buggy to be used for Youtube/Hulu/Netflix so we also have Roku sticks on 2 of the TVs.

If TiVo is going to start pre-roll ads the whole kit is going on E-bay and I'll need an alternative. 3-4 OTA (ATSC) tuners, 1TB DVR, view-able from an iPad and several Rokus.

Is HDHomeRun my best bet here? Most of our TV is watched pre-recorded, though I do like to start watching football games halfway in to skip all the commercials and the between-play waiting.

Auto-skip would be great, but not a deal breaker - a (responsive) 30 second skip, and 7-second back has worked fine for the last 18 years. I don't care about suggestions - just something with a reliable tuner that will record our shows and play them back ad-free.

Anything else I should consider?
 
#451 ·
I'm keeping my TiVo for the foreseeable future, as I'm perfectly happy with it, but I'd have to say that there is an appeal to the Channels model of being able to put almost everything on an Android TV box like the Nvidia Shield. That would have everything I need except for Blu-Ray, which I don't use too often, and use for large chunks of time. Not that flipping back and forth between Roku and TiVo is anything but a complete first world problem, but the idea that you could have one Channels DVR and scale out to many TVs in a household with a single box at each one is pretty cool. We're getting ever closer to convergence nirvana.
 
#453 ·
I used to be a much bigger proponent of lifetime options vs neverending subscriptions, but a certain other DVR company has taught me that lifetime subscriptions aren't always the best choice. Once they have all the money they're going to get from you, there's not much incentive to keep you happy and they start pulling stupid crap like inserting ads of their own so they can make another buck off you.
That very same company taught lots of people the opposite message too - just because you're paying a subscription doesn't mean you're going to get new features, especially on your older boxes.

Though that's a bit of an aside - TiVo was a hardware+subscription whereas Channels is pure software subscription.
 
#469 ·
30 fps, and Channels DVR records exactly what is being streamed by the TVEverywhere network sites.
Thanks for the great info! I really like the idea of Channels capturing the TVE stream, but I have a hard time with the 30fps TVE streams for sports. As it stands now, Cox sets the CCI byte on almost all channels so TiVo is still the easiest option for me (for now).
 
#473 ·
I really like the idea of Channels capturing the TVE stream, but I have a hard time with the 30fps TVE streams for sports.
Some are 60 fps (including the third example spiderpumpkin posted). But, it's true, it's sometimes 30 when it should be 60. It all depends on the channel, since each provides its own feed through its own web site. You could always nag the bad ones to upgrade their PQ. ;)
 
#460 ·
I finally setup a pc to act as a dvr for channels. I have an HDHR Connect Quatro, and using TV Anywhere to pipe in many of my comcast channels.

It's works very well. The sound doesn't feel as deep as it does through the Tivo. I'm using a 4K Apple TV. Both the Apple TV and the DVR are wired to the same switch.

Both the Tivo and the Apple TV are connected to the same TV with the same sound output to a soundbar.
Luckily I'm a tinkerer, and while it doesn't seem like it needs a lot, Tivo is just so easy (for both me and the family)

Also I don't see if I can watch a small screen while I use the guide as I can with my Tivo Premiere. Not a huge deal but a very nice to have.
 
#468 ·
Any tips you've learned? I found the guide scrolling to be really slow ...until I learned you can tap the touchpad up/down to navigate the guide much quicker. Still kind of slow though. Could use a page/down functionality which is present in other apps with the same remote.
 
#470 ·
Anybody check out PlutoTV? I was amazed at how much content it has and how much content I've heard of and that has appeal to me like the 007 channel. :)

and it works good. I like the simple no frills design. And commercials aren't terrible. 2 minutes at a time it seems like. It feels like fewer commercials overall than networktv. I could be wrong.

anyway I'm sure I'm behind the times in checking stuff like this out. But ...I was very surprised. There's nothing new on it. But quite a lot of good old movies and shows.

There's hundreds of channels on it and a lot of the content you can watch on demand. OH yeah and it's free in case you're in the dark like I was.
 
#487 ·
I feel dumb asking, but in trying to ditch the Bolt, there are a myriad of options. We have OTA and use Bolt to DVR as well as using the Bolt to stream Netflix/Prime. However, I bought new smart TV last year (Sony 940E) that has all and more streaming apps then the Bolt.
For best PQ, it seems Tivo would outperform any OTA streaming device (Table, HR, Silicon). Can someone comment on how much of a "hit" I'll take on PQ by wifi streaming locals to my TV vs Tivo?

To add to my confusion, it seems Recast gets rated very well, but requires a Fire TV device. What's a Fire TV device and how is it different than the Recast? Could I use Recast with our Sony TV? There's so many options, but a lot to digest in terms of user feedback.

In the end, we only have one TV, need to have DVR for OTA. What Tivo alternative would work best for us?
 
#488 ·
I feel dumb asking, but in trying to ditch the Bolt, there are a myriad of options. We have OTA and use Bolt to DVR as well as using the Bolt to stream Netflix/Prime. However, I bought new smart TV last year (Sony 940E) that has all and more streaming apps then the Bolt.
For best PQ, it seems Tivo would outperform any OTA streaming device (Table, HR, Silicon). Can someone comment on how much of a "hit" I'll take on PQ by wifi streaming locals to my TV vs Tivo?

To add to my confusion, it seems Recast gets rated very well, but requires a Fire TV device. What's a Fire TV device and how is it different than the Recast? Could I use Recast with our Sony TV? There's so many options, but a lot to digest in terms of user feedback.

In the end, we only have one TV, need to have DVR for OTA. What Tivo alternative would work best for us?
No such thing as a dumb question here. This is all new to most people. A Recast records OTA, and connects over your network to other Fire TV devices in your home to play that content. Those other Fire TV devices are streaming boxes and sticks that you probably don't need for anything else, because you may have all the streaming apps you need in your new Sony Android TV. Also, Recast is not highly rated for picture quality.

Better options may include a Tablo DVR paired with the Tablo app for Android TV. I have no experience with that one. I am testing an HD HomeRun Quatro receiver with Channels DVR on a small NAS, and the Channels app on our TVs. I find the picture slightly more saturated than TiVo, but nobody else in the family sees a difference. Aside from that, looks good.

I don't have an Android TV. You should check yours to see if it will download the relevant app for anything we suggest here, as I believe that would be the best solution. Maybe in five years, when the TV apps don't meet your needs, then look for an add-on box. But not until then.
 
#492 ·
I have used Tivo Bolts, Tablo, and currently a recast. Bolt is hdmi connected directly to TV. Tablo uses the steaming app either built in to my WebOS equipped LG Tv, or a Fire Stick app. Recast streams through the Firecast app. All DVR source material is from the same over the air antenna.

As far as picture quality, Tivo will record and playback in the resolution broadcast by the station, so it will be the best quality. The other two transcode the picture, converting to a more compressed bit rate for streaming. If you have one of the major brand sets (Sony, LG, Samsung, etc) most have very good upscaling tech to their native display mode, and the image quality for high definition sources (1080i and 720p) is very good. For SD source material (480i) typically used by the local broadcasters for the sub channel content, such as MeTv, I have found that the Tablo transcoding leaves a bit of saw toothing and artifacts on diagonal edges that once seen, are hard to ignore. I don’t see those defects in the transcode from the recast to the firestick. The FireTv has the annoying habit of rolling up the streamed bit rate (and resolution) on the fly from the start, so the image quality for a few seconds can be meh until it syncs up along your network.

Tablo transcodes and records everything on the fly, so a two tuner model can record two concurrent sources, and at the same time can stream up to six different recordings to different displays. The Recast records in native format, but streams a transcode, but can only stream two unique transcodes at the same time using two of the tuners. In other words, you can watch two different programs live from the recast while recording two others at the same time, but a third set cannot watch a unique source concurrently, so even a four tuner Recast can only stream two live channels concurrently.

Note that the OTT streaming services that offer live tv, such as You Tube Live, Hulu Live, SlingTv, and the soon to be deceased PSVue do not stream at resolutions higher than 720p/60, no matter what device is used. In other words, a 1080i HD source broadcast is transcoded down by the OTT service before streaming to your home device.
 
#495 ·
I have used Tivo Bolts, Tablo, and currently a recast. Bolt is hdmi connected directly to TV. Tablo uses the steaming app either built in to my WebOS equipped LG Tv, or a Fire Stick app. Recast streams through the Firecast app. All DVR source material is from the same over the air antenna.

As far as picture quality, Tivo will record and playback in the resolution broadcast by the station, so it will be the best quality. The other two transcode the picture, converting to a more compressed bit rate for streaming. If you have one of the major brand sets (Sony, LG, Samsung, etc) most have very good upscaling tech to their native display mode, and the image quality for high definition sources (1080i and 720p) is very good. For SD source material (480i) typically used by the local broadcasters for the sub channel content, such as MeTv, I have found that the Tablo transcoding leaves a bit of saw toothing and artifacts on diagonal edges that once seen, are hard to ignore. I don't see those defects in the transcode from the recast to the firestick. The FireTv has the annoying habit of rolling up the streamed bit rate (and resolution) on the fly from the start, so the image quality for a few seconds can be meh until it syncs up along your network.

Tablo transcodes and records everything on the fly, so a two tuner model can record two concurrent sources, and at the same time can stream up to six different recordings to different displays. The Recast records in native format, but streams a transcode, but can only stream two unique transcodes at the same time using two of the tuners. In other words, you can watch two different programs live from the recast while recording two others at the same time, but a third set cannot watch a unique source concurrently, so even a four tuner Recast can only stream two live channels concurrently.

Note that the OTT streaming services that offer live tv, such as You Tube Live, Hulu Live, SlingTv, and the soon to be deceased PSVue do not stream at resolutions higher than 720p/60, no matter what device is used. In other words, a 1080i HD source broadcast is transcoded down by the OTT service before streaming to your home device.
But they still have much better quality than what FiOS broadcasts. Or what Comcast broadcasts.

Sent from my Galaxy S10
 
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#501 ·
Recast via fire tv is a touch faster, although surfing still requires an alexis voice command, or mash the down part of the toggle ring on the remote to bring up a scrollable display of channel selections across the bottom of the screen, them select. Tablo surfing is a bit faster than their first generation software.
 
#503 ·
It depends on the scaler in your TV. I don’t perceive any difference in 1080i source material streamed from either the Tablo or the Recast. SD source material from the Tablo may leave artufacts that may annoy some people, like me, but not others. Your experience may be different.
 
#505 ·
Great info in this thread! There's always some inherent loss of quality when transcoding, but how well it's done and at what bitrate will determine if you can see the difference. My concern would be that as channels share and compress more heavily, the lower quality source material will make the transcoding look worse, as it's starting with a lower quality image with less information to compress based off of. Also, I'm not sure why channel surfing speed would be an issue, we're looking at recording a few OTA shows here and there, and there are only a few channels to begin with.

Can Channels Plus stream out to devices that support it directly in MPEG-2 as recorded? Or does it have to transcode? If it can, do any Android TV devices support MPEG-2? NVidia Shield Pro?
 
#510 ·
I'm no pro when I comes to all this but I'm I'm running both a Tivo Premiere and a HDHR Quatrto with Channels on an old pc.

Channels is growing on me. There's a few things I'd miss, like the guide showing live tv in the corner while I surf around but the video quality on both my Apple TV 4k and my 2nd gen Fire TV (the flat one with ethernet) is very good.
 
#512 ·
I have looked at Channels, but already have shelled out enough money over the years for Tivo, Tablo, and Recast. I’m pretty happy with recast, and hopeful that Amazon will extend their guide integration to more than just Philo or PSVue. I also look forward to commercial skip. FireTv has a great selection of apps, and the recast used with the latest generation fire tv stick (with the volume toggle remote) is an easy solution. i have four sets connected, although only two at any one time, and the third and fourth sets are insignia Fire Tv os sets, so no stick needed at all.

All of these solutions lack a few things that would make them world beaters. Tivo doesn’t offer live tv OTT service apps. Recast locks you into a FireTv system for TV viewing. Channels is more of a roll your own set up, and Tablo supports the largest number of devices, but doesn’t offer other apps. The cost investment is all over the map. A recast at Black Friday prices, with a firetv stick, is a pretty economical investment with the simplest operation, followed next be the Tablo. Channels solutions continue to improve, but may be pricey. TiVo has been a great choice for OTA image quality and recording management, but comes at a higher cost, and limited app functionality. Hold your breath, and choose wisely.

The wife prefers the Bolt with TE3, even with a fireTv. I mostly prefer the Recast solution. That is why we have chocolate AND vanilla ice cream in this world.
 
#515 ·
Yeah, that exists in other parts of the world, from major brand TVs like LG. Just connect your own USB hard drive or flash drive and you can set up DVR recordings. Not sure why it isn't done here in the US. Maybe it's to avoid licensing patents from TiVo and/or paying for program guide data; perhaps the TV manufacturers think that, since OTA TV is used by relatively few Americans, it doesn't make sense to spend more money on OTA-related features for their TVs.
 
#517 ·
For those who are very interested in an OTA DVR solution that retains and stream recordings at their original quality in MPEG-2 format (i.e. doesn't transcode), consider the HDHomeRun Scribe. You must connect it to your router via ethernet, though, and I would also suggest connecting your smart TV or streaming device by ethernet too unless you have a fast, solid wifi signal. The weak point with this solution, though, is the HDHomeRun app, which has a UI and feature set that isn't as good as Tablo or Fire TV Recast.

But at $150 for a 2-tuner model with a 1TB hard drive and first year of service included ($35/yr thereafter), it's not a bad deal.

Review here:

HDHomeRun Scribe Quatro and Servio review: Great video quality, but clunky software
 
#523 ·
So I think I am leaning towards the scribe duo for our Android TV. Anyone know when tivos patents expire? Is this the only thing preventing others from making a device like theirs? Seems like scribe is nearly the same with it's integrated harddrive but having to stream channels. I plan to use Ethernet cable to plug direct into box. Yet, from there it still goes through wifi to the TV, correct? Seems so inefficient.
 
#524 ·
If you're planning to use Silicon Dust's own DVR software, you really need to watch a youtube video demo. Their software is really, really, really terrible.

Assuming the Scribe only works with SD's software, I think you'd be much better off just getting a tuner (non-Scribe version), your own hard drive and some other DVR software (Channels, Google Live TV, etc.).
 
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