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TiVo Alternatives?

98K views 1K replies 105 participants last post by  Pokemon_Dad 
#1 ·
I've been a TiVo user since the Series 1 some 18 (!) years ago. The whole point was to time-shift and skip commercials. We've had our ups and downs, but our Bolt (lifetime sub) + 3 Minis are working fine. The minis are too slow and buggy to be used for Youtube/Hulu/Netflix so we also have Roku sticks on 2 of the TVs.

If TiVo is going to start pre-roll ads the whole kit is going on E-bay and I'll need an alternative. 3-4 OTA (ATSC) tuners, 1TB DVR, view-able from an iPad and several Rokus.

Is HDHomeRun my best bet here? Most of our TV is watched pre-recorded, though I do like to start watching football games halfway in to skip all the commercials and the between-play waiting.

Auto-skip would be great, but not a deal breaker - a (responsive) 30 second skip, and 7-second back has worked fine for the last 18 years. I don't care about suggestions - just something with a reliable tuner that will record our shows and play them back ad-free.

Anything else I should consider?
 
#371 · (Edited)
For those wondering whether some channels get blacked out in TV Everywhere, this is how some of our Xfinity lineup looks in the Channels TVE list. All the channels I'm about to mention work fine via the Xfinity Stream website and apps.

Each geographic area is probably a little different, but this is what I see. CNN and CNNI work. MSNBC works, but not Comedy Central. Fox and Outdoor are missing, but CNBC, Newsmax, and Cheddar are there. AMC but no TMC. A&E is among the missing. And so on.

Most likely we would replace Xfinity with Hulu Live TV if we cut the cord, as we've been tempted many times to add Hulu anyway and it's a small incremental upgrade. As with YouTube TV, that would replace the major cable channels we are likely to miss after leaving Xfinity. That's assuming Channels can access all channels via those services. Anyone care to comment on that?

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#380 ·
DISH is a lot weaker, and has more rain fade issues, although I'm not sure how the two arcs compare. DirecTV is far more reliable, and with a properly peaked/dithered Ka dish, rain fade WILL be rare.
I think the reality is YMMV. I've had both DBS services on and off since 2004. At my location, I found Dish's Ku signal to be less impacted by the weather than DirecTV, especially once I moved to the Dish Eastern Arc. The majority of our weather comes in from the southwest, so that favors Dish, as does their use of Ku bands. That said, at lot of people in Florida complain that the EA is worse for rain fade, probably due to their specific circumstances. Either way, the downtime I've experienced with both services has been much less than 3d 15h 39m 29.5s per year that their marketed 99% availability would indicate.
 
#381 ·
DirecTV is much more picky on dish alignment than DISH, since it's Ka vs. Ku. Eastern Arc is higher in the sky on the east coast, so in theory it has to cut through less of the atmosphere, but that doesn't seem to overcome the technical superiority of DirecTV's Ka system. A well aligned DirecTV dish will never be out for more than a few minutes, and that won't happen very often. DirecTV's 99% claim is very conservative, in reality, they are pushing 9's. Probably not to datacenter/internet level reliability where at 99.9999% you get a few minutes per year of downtime, but certainly 99.9% or 99.99%.
 
#384 · (Edited)
The chart referenced should help you figure out what networks support TVE for each provider (Hulu TV, PS Vue, etc. ).

Basically, if the provider supports TVE for that network, then it should work with Channels DVR. Some networks like A&E and History do not have a TVE live stream, so you won't see those on the list at all. In those cases, it doesn't matter what provider you have. No TVE live stream = No Channels DVR support.

The Channels community forum has some good info on which provider has the best source of TVE support.
Thanks. That explains why A&E and History are not there, but not the others that are available via TVE yet not in Channels. Many providers that do license through TVE to a particular provider apparently do not allow it to be shared beyond that provider's own app. For examples, see my report on Xfinity and @OrangeCrush's report on YTTV.
 
#387 ·
That explains why A&E and History are not there, but not the others that are available via TVE yet not in Channels.
Channels DVR uses a virtual Chrome tab to pick up the TVE streams so they have to be accessible via a web browser to work. Some networks only support mobile apps which aren't supported. That said, the developers are very engaged with the community and if there happens to be a channel they don't pick up that actually does work in a web browser, they'll add it if they can. Often quickly.
 
#385 ·
I really don't see what discussion of satellite reception has to do with the topic of this thread. It is interesting to me though, because I'm a telecom geek.
 
#394 ·
In reading through their site, it looks like it does quite a bit more than Channels DVR. A true hardware DVR with built in BD player, along with the capability to record on-demand content like Netflix. For $5K, it better do it all flawlessly. Including being able to record the on-demand content in original video/audio format. Not just 720p max / 2.0 stereo like PlayOn.TV does.
 
#402 ·
I have switched over to Hulu with Live TV. I am a Tivo user of over 10 years but the constant Spectrum price increases have forced me to look elsewhere. Hulu has the selection of channels we want but their DVR is a mess. Very hard to navigate and use. We're still trying it out but not sure if we (WAF) will stay. I would go over to Youtube TV but we will lose some channels we want. Guess time will tell.
 
#419 ·
The streaming services are meant to be an alternative to cable, not a substitute for cable. They offer fewer channels and just basic DVR functionality in order to cut costs so that people have a cheaper option than cable. If you need a DVR with a large amount of storage, no expiration dates, and other features, that's why cable companies charge $20/month for the equipment.
 
#423 ·
I am trying the Channels App/DVR with ATV (non 4k) and the commercial skipping is great. The only issue I have is the quality is not that great. Any ideas of what I might be doing wrong, as it sounds like most people think the quality is usually really good. I am using it along with my AT&T Now "Go Big" credentials. Thanks!
 
#424 ·
What specifically about the quality? Overall I am pleased with Channels. But I find the colors somewhat over saturated, and can find no way to adjust that. (My wife doesn't notice that at all.) Also as far as I know Live TV via streaming will include only stereo sound, not 5.1 surround. That's certainly the case here, where I get surround sound on any OTA channels that include it, but only stereo sound on the one Xfinity TVE channel we've been recording.
 
#431 ·
It seems like I am watching SD instead of HD. Sometimes it seems as if frames go slower to compared to watching on AT&TN on my ATV. Can't figure it out, as I have heard the quality should be really good. Do you think yours is as good or to your Tivo?
What do you have the Channels settings set for I have mine set for STREAMING QUALITY: Home Streaming is Original and Internet Streaming is 1080p 8Mbps
 
#432 ·
I have both set to original and also tried 1080p with no difference. Can't figure out and so far neither can Channels App customer support. Strange as all other streaming services and Plex are great quality. Channels App looks like SD quality or slow framerates....
 
#439 ·
I still have a Tivo with Comcast, but I'm finding myself recording local OTA channels with my HDHR Quatro/Channels DVR instead. I really like the quality of the OTA video and sound compared to the Comcast feed.

I have an HDHR Prime coming from eBay, bought a brand new one for $150, and I can't wait to use that with the Channels DVR. I like how Channels DVR can utilize multiple HDHRs, TV Everywhere and Locast.

I plan to keep my Tivo Bolt Vox until it stops working or Tivo somehow messes up Encore TE3 or forces me to Hydra. When that day comes I'll be all set with my Channels DVR setup.
 
#443 ·
I'm doing the same thing. I have a Tive Premiere with lifetime. The family really likes it. Easy to navigate. I like how the OTA and my cable are integrated.

I got the HDHR Quatro today because of the sale ($99) and just will tinker with it for now. What takes getting used to is while I get channel numbers on the OTA of Channels (using it on my iphone) and HDHR app. I can't enter a number on a remote, and haven't found a way to get to "last channel".

I will build a pc and get a month to month of Channels to see how it goes when recording.
 
#445 ·
OK, so our tivo minis keep locking up, so we are considering bailing on Tivo too. Customers since series 1, sad to leave. I do think they have the best system for app/content aggregation and if the variosu apps worked better and weren't so slow, wed not be looking.

My question... how do people deal with the lack of controlability of rewinding, etc., especially when watching sports? I've dinked around with a roku and what absolutely bugged me is not having fine control over fast forward, slow mo and quick replays. You take thet for granted as a long time tivo user, but streaming does not replicate that experience as far as Ive seen.

Other than that, there's also the issue of local sports being blacked out even when you have a season pass and having to go to a VPN to spoof your location. I guess sports are really wher I have th ebiggest problem.

Thanks.
 
#447 ·
My question... how do people deal with the lack of controlability of rewinding, etc., especially when watching sports?
Not a problem for me watching OTA or a cable TVE stream in Channels Plus. Channels is still not TiVo, but it's close enough, right down to manual or automatic commercial skip, and adjustable FF/Rew skip distance. No Roku app though, just Apple TV, Fire TV, Fire devices, iOS, Android, and desktop web.

I haven't yet tried a virtual provider like YouTube TV via Channels, but it seems to work similarly when Channels can access the same stream. However, there may be others issues with streaming sports. See the reports posted by @inaka today on his cord-cutting thread. Is there really a 30-second delay? Wow.
 
#453 ·
I used to be a much bigger proponent of lifetime options vs neverending subscriptions, but a certain other DVR company has taught me that lifetime subscriptions aren't always the best choice. Once they have all the money they're going to get from you, there's not much incentive to keep you happy and they start pulling stupid crap like inserting ads of their own so they can make another buck off you.
That very same company taught lots of people the opposite message too - just because you're paying a subscription doesn't mean you're going to get new features, especially on your older boxes.

Though that's a bit of an aside - TiVo was a hardware+subscription whereas Channels is pure software subscription.
 
#469 ·
30 fps, and Channels DVR records exactly what is being streamed by the TVEverywhere network sites.
Thanks for the great info! I really like the idea of Channels capturing the TVE stream, but I have a hard time with the 30fps TVE streams for sports. As it stands now, Cox sets the CCI byte on almost all channels so TiVo is still the easiest option for me (for now).
 
#460 ·
I finally setup a pc to act as a dvr for channels. I have an HDHR Connect Quatro, and using TV Anywhere to pipe in many of my comcast channels.

It's works very well. The sound doesn't feel as deep as it does through the Tivo. I'm using a 4K Apple TV. Both the Apple TV and the DVR are wired to the same switch.

Both the Tivo and the Apple TV are connected to the same TV with the same sound output to a soundbar.
Luckily I'm a tinkerer, and while it doesn't seem like it needs a lot, Tivo is just so easy (for both me and the family)

Also I don't see if I can watch a small screen while I use the guide as I can with my Tivo Premiere. Not a huge deal but a very nice to have.
 
#468 ·
Any tips you've learned? I found the guide scrolling to be really slow ...until I learned you can tap the touchpad up/down to navigate the guide much quicker. Still kind of slow though. Could use a page/down functionality which is present in other apps with the same remote.
 
#470 ·
Anybody check out PlutoTV? I was amazed at how much content it has and how much content I've heard of and that has appeal to me like the 007 channel. :)

and it works good. I like the simple no frills design. And commercials aren't terrible. 2 minutes at a time it seems like. It feels like fewer commercials overall than networktv. I could be wrong.

anyway I'm sure I'm behind the times in checking stuff like this out. But ...I was very surprised. There's nothing new on it. But quite a lot of good old movies and shows.

There's hundreds of channels on it and a lot of the content you can watch on demand. OH yeah and it's free in case you're in the dark like I was.
 
#481 ·
Anybody check out PlutoTV?

I like the simple no frills design. And commercials aren't terrible. 2 minutes at a time it seems like. It feels like fewer commercials overall than networktv. I could be wrong.

There's hundreds of channels on it and a lot of the content you can watch on demand. OH yeah and it's free in case you're in the dark like I was.
As for ads, I think it's usually the same amount of ads as on regular TV for 30-minute and 60-minute episodes, because those shows generally still conform to their original run times. (If they carried fewer minutes of ads on Pluto TV, they'd last less than 30 or 60 minutes total.) However, for movies, yeah, maybe the ad load is less on Pluto TV.
Free but with ads? Sorry, that's way too expensive for my taste.o_O
 
#487 ·
I feel dumb asking, but in trying to ditch the Bolt, there are a myriad of options. We have OTA and use Bolt to DVR as well as using the Bolt to stream Netflix/Prime. However, I bought new smart TV last year (Sony 940E) that has all and more streaming apps then the Bolt.
For best PQ, it seems Tivo would outperform any OTA streaming device (Table, HR, Silicon). Can someone comment on how much of a "hit" I'll take on PQ by wifi streaming locals to my TV vs Tivo?

To add to my confusion, it seems Recast gets rated very well, but requires a Fire TV device. What's a Fire TV device and how is it different than the Recast? Could I use Recast with our Sony TV? There's so many options, but a lot to digest in terms of user feedback.

In the end, we only have one TV, need to have DVR for OTA. What Tivo alternative would work best for us?
 
#489 ·
I feel dumb asking, but in trying to ditch the Bolt, there are a myriad of options. We have OTA and use Bolt to DVR as well as using the Bolt to stream Netflix/Prime. However, I bought new smart TV last year (Sony 940E) that has all and more streaming apps then the Bolt.

For best PQ, it seems Tivo would outperform any OTA streaming device (Table, HR, Silicon). Can someone comment on how much of a "hit" I'll take on PQ by wifi streaming locals to my TV vs Tivo?

To add to my confusion, it seems Recast gets rated very well, but requires a Fire TV device. What's a Fire TV device and how is it different than the Recast? Could I use Recast with our Sony TV? There's so many options, but a lot to digest in terms of user feedback.

In the end, we only have one TV, need to have DVR for OTA. What Tivo alternative would work best for us?
Your Sony 940E uses Google's Android TV as its smart TV app platform. So it can run any app made for Android TV. OTA DVRs other than TiVo use apps as their front-end.

There are four major options available for OTA DVR besides TiVo. The fourth of those options is the most complicated and offers various sub-options.

1. Tablo: You'd buy a Tablo device (with either 2 or 4 OTA tuners inside) and then connect your own USB hard drive to store recordings. To watch live and recorded TV and manage your DVR, you'd use the Tablo app, which is available for lots of different devices, including Android TV (and therefore your Sony smart TV).

Tablo lets you set the video quality to different levels; the higher the level, the better it looks but the more hard drive space recordings take up. When I tried out a Tablo a couple years back and set it to the highest level, I didn't honestly notice any different in picture quality vs. the TiVo Roamio OTA I had at the time, and I'm someone who's pretty sensitive to picture quality.

After buying the Tablo (you can buy a refurbished 2-tuner for as little as $70 right now, or a new 4-tuner for as much as $200. Their DVR service (i.e. program guide data) costs $5/mo (first month free) or $50/yr or $150 for lifetime service (which you can transfer to a new Tablo device down the road if you like). If you got the refurb 2-tuner model plus spent $50 on a 1 TB hard drive plus bought lifetime service, you're looking at a minimum of $270 on Tablo (Note: Do NOT buy their lifetime service until after you've set up your Tablo and tested it out with the first free month of DVR service. You can then decide if you want to purchase monthly, yearly or lifetime service, or simply return/resell the Tablo because you don't like it.)

2. Fire TV Recast: You'd need to buy the Recast (with either 2 or 4 OTA tuners inside) PLUS a Fire TV streaming device. This is because Amazon doesn't make an app for Android TV or any other platform besides their own Fire TV streaming devices for viewing and controlling the Recast DVR. So if you use a Recast, you'll need to switch inputs and remote controls over from your Sony TV to a Fire TV streamer. But a nice thing about the Recast is that it has its own built-in hard drive, so you don't need to buy that too. You can buy the 4-tuner Recast with 1 TB storage for $280 or the 2-tuner Recast with half that much storage for $230. They also sell a special bundle that includes the 2-tuner Recast plus their Fire TV 4K streaming stick plus an OTA antenna for just $250 (so basically you're getting the Fire TV 4K stick, which you need, for just an extra $20 and the antenna for free). Don't think they sell a bundle with the 4-tuner model. The Fire TV 4K stick by itself is usually $50 but I'm sure will be on sale soon for Black Friday.

Here's the really big deal about the Recast, though: no DVR service fees. So once you make the up-front hardware purchase, that's it. So you could spend as little as $250 on the bundle I linked to above, which is $20 less than the least-expensive Tablo set-up with lifetime service.

I've never used a Fire TV Recast, so can't comment first-hand on picture or sound quality there versus a TiVo. I feel like I've read that there is at least a bit of a quality hit with the Recast but maybe not a big deal? I'll leave it to you to do your research on how Tablo stacks up vs. Fire TV Recast. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, I'm sure.

3. HDHomeRun Scribe: This is a product similar to a Recast, an all-in-one DVR box with either 2 or 4 OTA tuners plus hard drive, but you would use their own HDHomeRun app to view live and recorded TV and manage the DVR. That app is available for your Sony TV running Android TV. The 2-tuner Scribe Duo costs $150 at Best Buy and the 4-tuner Scribe Quattro costs $250. Both come with a 1 TB hard drive. The first year of DVR service is included and then costs $35/year thereafter. This option is newer and less well-known than the first two above and I've read very little about the picture quality, features, etc. I do know that the UI of the HDHomeRun app doesn't look as good as that of the Tablo app or Fire TV Recast but that may not matter to you.

This could be your cheapest option, costing as little as $150 (although you'd still need to pay $35 year every year after the first year).

4. HDHomeRun Connect: This scenario is the most complicated. You'd buy an HDHomeRun Connect OTA tuner (2 or 4 tuner model) but all this device contains are tuners. It doesn't have DVR software or a hard drive built-in, so you'd also need a separate computer or NAS device to handle the DVR recording function, with recordings stored on that device. You have three options on what DVR software system to run on your computer:
A. Channels Plus
B. Plex
C. HDHomeRun DVR

I'll leave it to you to research those options if they interest you. From what I know, I'd say that Channels Plus is the highest-quality solution here and it costs $8/mo or $80/yr (no lifetime option) after a 1-month free trial.
 
#503 ·
It depends on the scaler in your TV. I don’t perceive any difference in 1080i source material streamed from either the Tablo or the Recast. SD source material from the Tablo may leave artufacts that may annoy some people, like me, but not others. Your experience may be different.
 
#505 ·
Great info in this thread! There's always some inherent loss of quality when transcoding, but how well it's done and at what bitrate will determine if you can see the difference. My concern would be that as channels share and compress more heavily, the lower quality source material will make the transcoding look worse, as it's starting with a lower quality image with less information to compress based off of. Also, I'm not sure why channel surfing speed would be an issue, we're looking at recording a few OTA shows here and there, and there are only a few channels to begin with.

Can Channels Plus stream out to devices that support it directly in MPEG-2 as recorded? Or does it have to transcode? If it can, do any Android TV devices support MPEG-2? NVidia Shield Pro?
 
#512 ·
I have looked at Channels, but already have shelled out enough money over the years for Tivo, Tablo, and Recast. I’m pretty happy with recast, and hopeful that Amazon will extend their guide integration to more than just Philo or PSVue. I also look forward to commercial skip. FireTv has a great selection of apps, and the recast used with the latest generation fire tv stick (with the volume toggle remote) is an easy solution. i have four sets connected, although only two at any one time, and the third and fourth sets are insignia Fire Tv os sets, so no stick needed at all.

All of these solutions lack a few things that would make them world beaters. Tivo doesn’t offer live tv OTT service apps. Recast locks you into a FireTv system for TV viewing. Channels is more of a roll your own set up, and Tablo supports the largest number of devices, but doesn’t offer other apps. The cost investment is all over the map. A recast at Black Friday prices, with a firetv stick, is a pretty economical investment with the simplest operation, followed next be the Tablo. Channels solutions continue to improve, but may be pricey. TiVo has been a great choice for OTA image quality and recording management, but comes at a higher cost, and limited app functionality. Hold your breath, and choose wisely.

The wife prefers the Bolt with TE3, even with a fireTv. I mostly prefer the Recast solution. That is why we have chocolate AND vanilla ice cream in this world.
 
#517 ·
For those who are very interested in an OTA DVR solution that retains and stream recordings at their original quality in MPEG-2 format (i.e. doesn't transcode), consider the HDHomeRun Scribe. You must connect it to your router via ethernet, though, and I would also suggest connecting your smart TV or streaming device by ethernet too unless you have a fast, solid wifi signal. The weak point with this solution, though, is the HDHomeRun app, which has a UI and feature set that isn't as good as Tablo or Fire TV Recast.

But at $150 for a 2-tuner model with a 1TB hard drive and first year of service included ($35/yr thereafter), it's not a bad deal.

Review here:

HDHomeRun Scribe Quatro and Servio review: Great video quality, but clunky software
 
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