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Bolt and Mini setup help

6K views 147 replies 9 participants last post by  waynomo 
#1 ·
Getting ready to ditch DirecTV and go with an HD antenna and some streaming services. I already bought a Tivo Bolt and a Mini. My problem comes in when I think about the install and all the articles I've read.

My modem is on the 1st floor and doesn't have access to the Bolt in the basement and I probably could run an ethernet cord to the Mini but it will he difficult. I have read so much about MoCA and PoE that I'm lost. Many of the info I've read pertain to things that worked before the Bolt came along.

My hope was to have the Bolt connect wirelessly and run an ethernet cord to the Mini. After reading more, I don't think that's possible now. In plain English can someone tell me the best way to connect everything? I have no idea if my home is setup for MoCA.

Also, is the point where my internet comes into my house in a coaxial cable the point of entry? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
#39 ·
A recommendation that would perhaps make things easier to talk and refer to when guiding you on your endeavor is to label the seven coax wires going into the three splitters you have and then take a picture and post it. It will also help you when you are reconfiguring everything. Ie "ISP", "Dish", "Office", and so on. This will give everybody common ground and give you more precise guidance.
 
#42 ·
A recommendation that would perhaps make things easier to talk and refer to when guiding you on your endeavor is to label the seven coax wires going into the three splitters you have and then take a picture and post it.
This is a good recommendation, even if you don't post a pic of the labeled connections. It could only be helpful in getting everything reconnected, and to facilitate any changes down the road.

As a side note, since you'll be dropping from 4 connections down to just 2 on the secondary splitter, you'll certainly need to identify which 2 of the 4 coax lines currently connected to the DirecTV splitter are the runs to the BOLT and Mini locations.
 
#40 ·
And with the layout krkaufman gave you, if you experience slower Internet speed or frequent dropped packets, you may need a poe filter between the modem and the coax.
 
#41 ·
Good info but it should be unlikely, since the modem is actually a MoCA-capable gateway...
Mediacom modem model: TC8715
Router model: Netgear WNDR4000
Hmmm... per this User Guide, the TC8715 appears to be a MoCA-capable gateway. However, if the modem is configured in bridge mode, in order to use the Netgear as your primary router, the modem's MoCA functionality is unusable. (It's also possible that your cable provider wouldn't allow enabling the MoCA feature in the gateway.) I'll proceed assuming the MoCA network will need to be established via some other device.
... but that DOES resurrect the question of whether the OP might want to look into using their gateway as the MoCA bridge, rather than a standalone MoCA adapter. The option was discarded earlier when it was believed that the MoCA network would be isolated from the cable provider coax lines, but the possibility is back on the table with just the one coax running to the office.

Though I'd personally stick w/ the standalone MoCA adapter, rather than having to rely on the provider not mucking with the gateway configuration -- and that's even *if* Mediacom allows MoCA to be enabled -- I'll defer to a Mediacom customer on the topic.
 
#51 ·
I'll check it out when get home.
While you're in there digging around, it might also be interesting to look around and see if you can find any MoCA settings.

Re: How to use a Mediacom Modem/Router/WiFi with my own Router - Mediacom | DSLReports Forums

Again, YMMV, but it appears that Mediacom rolls TiVo DVRs and MoCA, so it's possible you could theoretically reconfigure your TC8715/Netgear modem/router relationship to allow the cable gateway to establish your MoCA network.

If the TC8715 has been converted to bridge mode (possibly what Mediacom calls "baselined"?) and the Netgear is acting as your router, rather than strictly as a wireless access point, then the built-in MoCA of the TC8715 wouldn't be usable. The TC8715 needs to be acting as your router -- though its wireless functionality could be handed-off to the Netgear router, configured strictly as a wireless access point -- in order for it to bridge between the coax and Ethernet LAN. One downside to using the Netgear strictly as an access point, rather than as the main router, is that you'd lose any "Guest" Wi-Fi functionality. Tradeoffs...
 
#52 ·
#61 ·
Hmm... Well, it's possible the user guide linked above is either simply incorrect or for some other version of the TC8715 gateway... especially since it was pulled from a Time-Warner Cable website. Perhaps TWC pushes a different feature-set with its firmware. >This post< from the Mediacom user forums indicates the 8715 may NOT support MoCA, at least as allowed by Mediacom.

Have you had any luck finding the modem signal levels screen?
 
#59 ·
Does the cable modem support MoCa 2.0? At his wired speeds, it it doesn't, then I would scrap using it as a bridge and stick to a MoCa 2.0 adapter.
Another question, does the mini being used support MoCa 2.0? Here I am not sure of the details. Does a MoCa network with mixed adapters (1.1 and 2.0) work at the lowest common speed of all adapters connected to the system or will it connect via mixed mode. If it the former, then you would want to use all MoCa 2.0 adapters to make full use of the Internet speed.
Also I would consider upgrading your wireless ap/router.
 
#68 ·
Does the cable modem support MoCa 2.0? At his wired speeds, it it doesn't, then I would scrap using it as a bridge and stick to a MoCa 2.0 adapter.

Another question, does the mini being used support MoCa 2.0? Here I am not sure of the details. Does a MoCa network with mixed adapters (1.1 and 2.0) work at the lowest common speed of all adapters connected to the system or will it connect via mixed mode. If it the former, then you would want to use all MoCa 2.0 adapters to make full use of the Internet speed.

Also I would consider upgrading your wireless ap/router.
Have you ever heard of the term "scope creep"?
 
#62 ·
Basing it on your wireless speed (and router.) However, it may be a factor of what devices you have connected and not your router itself. For your wired speeds, and an 802.11ac router would be ideal. Of course you have to have AC compatible devices to make the best use of it. Most of the later smartphones, tablets, laptops have this capability.
 
#64 ·
Anything like this?

Downstream
Channel Bonding Value
Index
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Lock Status Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked
Frequency 159 MHz 117 MHz 123 MHz 129 MHz 147 MHz 153 MHz 111 MHz 165 MHz 171 MHz 177 MHz 183 MHz 189 MHz 195 MHz 201 MHz 207 MHz 213 MHz
SNR 35.1 dB 35.3 dB 35.2 dB 35.3 dB 35.0 dB 35.1 dB 35.4 dB 35.3 dB 35.1 dB 35.5 dB 35.5 dB 35.5 dB 35.4 dB 35.5 dB 35.3 dB 34.7 dB
Power -0.2 dBmV 0.3 dBmV 0.3 dBmV 0.4 dBmV -0.2 dBmV -0.2 dBmV 0.5 dBmV 0.1 dBmV 0.2 dBmV 0.3 dBmV 0.3 dBmV 0.2 dBmV 0.1 dBmV 0.1 dBmV -0.3 dBmV -0.2 dBmV
Modulation 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM
 
#65 ·
Custom Security- IPv4

LAN-to-WAN: Allow all.

WAN-to-LAN: IDS enabled and block as per selections below.

Block http (TCP port 80, 443)
Block ICMP
Block Multicast- This is the only one with a check by it
Block Peer-to-peer applications
Block IDENT (port 113)
Disable entire firewall
 
#79 ·
Agreed, so the TiVo Bridge sans pass-through should not be an issue for your Internet connection.

And those numbers should improve some in the final setup, depending on the loss of the 3-way splitter output port the modem line is currently connected to in the attic, and the loss of the 3-way splitter port to which you connected for the test.
 
#81 ·
Great to hear. Did you get the XBOX wired, as well?

As followup, if/when you have the time, I'd be interested to hear how you set this up relative to the last suggested diagram (i.e. any variances at A,B,C?), which I believe was the "in-room antenna" option from post #36 -- and how your modem now feels about the changes. (I'm curious to see where the modem's signal levels are, now, and what the cable signal's passing through to get to the modem.)

Lastly, now that MoCA's up, you can check your Mini's network status to review & document its MoCA connection quality. See >this post< for more info.

edit: p.s. Thanks for the feedback. Good to hear how things work out.
 
#82 ·
Everything went just like you said...almost. The part that threw me off was realizing that I didn't want my powered antenna in the basement. Luckily the previous owners had DirecTV coaxial cables run into the master bedroom on the 2nd floor. I ended up finding that coaxial connection and mounting a powered antenna upstairs on the highest part of a wall in the bedroom.

Unfortunately, it netted me a slight boost in antenna reception...but no more channels. Currently I'm only picking up 4 channels. I even took back the antenna and got a powered one with 65 mile range and still pickup as many channels as I did with an antenna in the basement. I know my neighbors are getting 60+ channels. I'll have to figure this out as it's why I went with the Bolt so I could get 4k and record OTA shows. Otherwise I would have gotten the box with a lifetime subscription or stuck with DirecTV. I don't have the skills or tools needed to mount a rooftop antenna. Here is the antenna I got: TERK - Ultrathin Indoor Amplified HDTV Antenna - Black/White

Let me know if something else would be better?

As far as the connection on the mini goes I'm getting a PHY rate of 274. The Xbox is also benefiting from the direct ethernet connection to the Bolt.

I should see a slight increase today when I install both of the 2 way MoCA splitters are swapped out with the 3 way splitters I have hooked up now, with one port unused and uncapped on each. They just arrived today.
 
#91 ·
Ran a test on my Mini to check the PHY rate again. After putting the two way splitters on it's running at 280 PHY now. The total power usage went from -25 to -24 as well.

Still having problems getting a signal with an antenna. I'm on my 3rd antenna now. This one is the most expensive and has gotten the worst results. The signal is so bad now that I can't even pick up a single channel. Here is the one I went with and pointed it directly SE from the 2nd floor of my house point out a window: Antennas Direct - ClearStream 2V Long-Range HDTV Antenna - Black/Silver

Also had a weird thing going on with my internet cutting in and out while trying to stream from anywhere on both Tivo's. I narrowed the problem to the Ethernet cord running from the Bolt to the Xbox. Once I unhooked it, everything worked flawlessly. Any idea why that would be?
 
#92 ·
Also, here are the latest readings from my modem after everything has been installed:

Downstream Channel Bonding Value
Index
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Lock Status Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked Locked
Frequency 153 MHz 117 MHz 123 MHz 129 MHz 147 MHz 111 MHz 159 MHz 165 MHz 171 MHz 177 MHz 183 MHz 189 MHz 195 MHz 201 MHz 207 MHz 213 MHz
SNR 35.3 dB 35.4 dB 35.4 dB 35.4 dB 35.2 dB 35.6 dB 35.4 dB 35.4 dB 35.5 dB 36.0 dB 35.5 dB 35.8 dB 35.8 dB 36.0 dB 35.6 dB 34.9 dB
Power -4.3 dBmV -4.1 dBmV -4.1 dBmV -4.0 dBmV -4.4 dBmV -3.6 dBmV -3.9 dBmV -3.3 dBmV -3.2 dBmV -3.0 dBmV -3.1 dBmV -3.2 dBmV -3.2 dBmV -3.3 dBmV -3.8 dBmV -4.2 dBmV
Modulation 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM 256 QAM
 
#97 ·
Luckily the previous owners had DirecTV coaxial cables run into the master bedroom on the 2nd floor. I ended up finding that coaxial connection and mounting a powered antenna upstairs on the highest part of a wall in the bedroom.

Unfortunately, it netted me a slight boost in antenna reception...but no more channels. Currently I'm only picking up 4 channels. I even took back the antenna and got a powered one with 65 mile range and still pickup as many channels as I did with an antenna in the basement.
Do you have the ability to connect a tuning device (TV, BOLT) directly to the antenna in this upstairs bedroom, to eliminate the connecting coax line as a factor in your reception?
 
#99 ·
Also had a weird thing going on with my internet cutting in and out while trying to stream from anywhere on both Tivo's. I narrowed the problem to the Ethernet cord running from the Bolt to the Xbox. Once I unhooked it, everything worked flawlessly. Any idea why that would be?
What MoCA setup option did you choose when you configured the BOLT for its MoCA connection?
 
#100 · (Edited)
We're gonna scope creep a little here perhaps.

You might want to connect the antenna directly to the bolt without the diplexer to see if there is any improvement in your reception.

Depending on the OTA channels you are receiving, there could be signal overlap between your OTA and MoCa/cable signals. Diplexers are mainly used to combine higher frequency satellite signals with lower frequency OTA signals. You are potentially combining similar signals. Also just because you get internet only from your cable provider, does not mean that you are not getting the signals from the other cable channels as well. You might not see them because you need a cableCARD to decrypt them. In fact, you might even have some unencrypted channels tagging along as well that you do not know about.

So if you connect the Bolt directly to the antenna, turn MoCa off on the Bolt, and you start getting the channels you are looking for, then you will need another MoCa adapter at the Bolt to connect the Bolt to the network.
 
#101 ·
We're gonna scope creep a little here perhaps.
Not really scope creep, since the MoCA setup's been solved... and the OP has moved on to figuring out why they can't get better TV reception. Start talking about upgrading the wireless router, though... ;)

You might want to connect the antenna directly to the bolt
Yep, good idea. Though the diplexer, so long as it's not defective, shouldn't be the problem, nor should any cable TV signals on the "SAT" leg of the diplexer, since those signals should be filtered-out. (40+dB attenuation)
 
#106 ·
I think the Bolt gives you two MoCa options. One is to 'Connect using MoCa' and the other is to 'Use this DVR to create a MoCa network'

I don't know if the first option is designed to allow the Bolt to use ethernet port as a bridge into the MoCa network. I not saying it won't work just that it may not have been intended to be used that way.
 
#108 · (Edited)
I think the Bolt gives you two MoCa options. One is to 'Connect using MoCa' and the other is to 'Use this DVR to create a MoCa network'

I don't know if the first option is designed to allow the Bolt to use ethernet port as a bridge into the MoCa network. I not saying it won't work just that it may not have been intended to be used that way.
Those were the options on the BOLT up until one of the recent updates, I think 20.6.3, when TiVo pushed some additional changes to the BOLT to "complete" the HD UI. (see here) In the process, they altered the MoCA setup options, as well as broke/removed a number of other MoCA-related features. (see here)

The new MoCA setup options *for the BOLT series* are along the lines of:
  • MoCA bridge (still "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network" on other MoCA-capable DVRs)
  • MoCA client (still "Connect using MoCA" on other MoCA-capable DVRs, and the only option on the Mini)
I don't know the exact wording, as I don't have a BOLT, and TiVo hasn't yet updated their online documentation to reflect the changes.
 
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