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Old 08-11-2002, 05:16 PM   #61
kingmiwok
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Hmmm, something is not working.

I tried fixes 2 and 4 with (I think) no luck. Tivo is up and running again, but I think my swap file is in the same condition as beforehand and I'll have a lockup in a day or so.

Note: I am not Linux savvy at all, but I do understand what the commands are supposed to do. I'm vcomfortable with DOS so working from a prompt does not bother me.

In a nutshell,
I boot on MadTivo disk and try to run edit_bootparms /dev/hdc -r
I get "file not found" (or whatever it says exactly)

If I try to mount a drive from a Dylan boot, I get a variety of responses, none completely positive. It often wants to know the file system type.

I tried to dd over the 64M swap from the orig Tivo drive and the reply I got back was
0+0
0+0
That seemed wrong.

I notice during boot that it does not read the partitions and can not identify the file system type. It finds the drives OK though.

Question: At the beginning of this thread, for repair method 2, is the dd command correct? States going from hdb8 to hdc9. Should be hdb8 to hdc8, yes?

So if it's possible to guide me a bit... what am I doing wrong? Thanks.
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Old 08-11-2002, 05:30 PM   #62
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Yes, well spotted, the swap partition is number 8, of course. You can stare at these things for ages and not see them, you know?

Assuming your working drive is on hdb and your new drive is on hdc your dd command would be

dd if=/dev/hdb8 of=/dev/hdc8

It should say something like 128 records transferred.

edit_bootparms is in the mad directory on TiVoMad, so you need to do

/mad/edit_bootparms ...

(I've fixed this in the top post too).

mount should give no response if it completes. If it asks for a filesystem type you can take it you're either mounting the wrong partition or a byte-swapped one, Linux can auto-detect FAT, Ext2 and NTFS partitions.

Thankyou for your comments, hope things start working for you soon.
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Old 08-11-2002, 10:08 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by kingmiwok

I tried to dd over the 64M swap from the orig Tivo drive and the reply I got back was
0+0
0+0
That seemed wrong.
Kingmiwok, that is exactly what happened to me yesterday. I dug out my original TiVo A drive and slammed in my 2 new TiVo drives, expecting to do a 5 minute dump of the old swap onto the new partition, but got the 0+0 in and 0+0 out message just like you did.
I had all the drives on a second controller card , and used
dd if=/dev/hde8 of=/dev/hdg8, where I connected the original TiVo disk to the primary master on the second controller, and the new TiVo drive (with the bad 128M swap partition) as the secondary master (and the new TiVo B drive on the secondary slave ).
I used the MFSTools 2 boot CD, and all drives were recognized on bootup, so I have no idea what the problem was.
I'm not familiar with Linux, either, so rather than risk doing something bad to my original disk (I have no backup image), I just bailed out, hoping for some help or suggestions online.
My TiVo started acting wierd on Saturday am, rebooting 6 times in fairly rapid succession. It would work for about 5-20 minutes between reboots, then go again. It seems to have fixed itself, or at least settled down for a bit. Its been up for about 36 hours without any issues.

Any new info or suggestions appreciated.
rswift

Last edited by rswift : 08-11-2002 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 08-12-2002, 04:06 AM   #64
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Robert S:
Thanks for the reply. Based on your comments and what has happened, I have the general feeling that my drives are not being detected correctly when I boot Linux. I'm thinking its not running the commands, mount or dd, etc because it is not seeing the drives in their complete form to begin with.

For example, cd'ed around a bit and spotted the edit_bootparms in the mad dir. It still blew me off when I tried to run it!

I'm not sure why, but maybe my motherboard settings are confusing things.
I think I'll retry with everything dummied down, or do it on another computer where I'm not afraid of messing up the BIOS settings. (I'm always anxious about changing settings on a computer I need for other "real" work.)

rswift:
I feel your pain. I'm doing more rapid reboots now after trying to fix it. Nice. I'm backed though, so I feel a fairly safe in trying things without paying too bad of a price.

My only recommendation it to do what I mentioned above. Maybe try it again with a very simple computer setup. No add-on second controller card, no cards in the slots, the absolute minimum. I think you want HD detection turned off in the BIOS as well. Look at your boot sequence very closely too. Even though my boot was detecting the drives as a physical device, it had lots of comments that indicated that it was not reading the FATS and partitions completely. See if you're getting those too.

I'll post up any success/failure. I'll try to get to it within the next couple days

If it does not work for me, I'm going give up the programs I have recorded since the upgrade and redo the whole process. I was interested in learning a little bit more about the inner workings and fixing the swap directly, but it's becoming a drag. My limited linux skill are really beginning to show.
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Old 08-12-2002, 08:27 AM   #65
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thanks, kingmiwok. I probably won't crack the cover again until the weekend rolls around, or at least Thursday. I looked at the boot sequence very carefully and didn't see anything that I thought was troublesome. I used the exact same configuration when I copied and expanded my original TiVo drive that I'm trying to use now to repair swap, so I'd think that I would have run into problems the first time around.
I'm also curious as to when it's necessary to boot into byteswapped mode. I tried that with the MFSTools CD and got an error and freeze. Had to reset the PC.
Thanks again for the response.

rswift
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Old 08-12-2002, 02:11 PM   #66
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copy swap file

Rswift:

I had success copying the swap file by booting into byteswapping mode. The easiest way to do this is to boot from the older MFSTools disk (i.e. Kazymir's Boot Disk). Byteswapping mode is broken on the new MFSTools 2.0 disk (you can read the thread at the top of this forum) but it can be done if you type "vmlnodma hdb=bswap hdc=bswap hdd=bswap" at the "Boot:" prompt. The error in the boot disk is that the wrong kernel is invoked if you type "boot: swap" . It loads the dma kernel which doesn't work for byteswapping, which causes the lockup. Read the isolinux.cfg file on the cd if you want to see. I think it will work for you in byteswapping mode.

John
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Old 08-14-2002, 08:26 PM   #67
Merle Corey
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Cool Total success

So, being the curious sort, and having an extra 40gb drive, I just finished running a proof of concept.

Summary: mfsrestore -r 0 works.

Anyway, here's what I did:

My TiVo: Philips HDR-212, with TurboNet and 100GB HD (TiVoMad style expansion performed Aug '01).

Booted with the MFST2 CD (default/dma enabled mode). Backed up my current TiVo drive with:

mfstools backup -6s -o /mnt/bak/mybackup /dev/hdb

Shutdown, disconnected good drive, installed test drive.

Restored with:

mfstools restore -x -p -s 128 -r 0 /dev/hdb -i /mnt/bak/mybackup

After completion, I rebooted with the TurboNet 3.0 install CD and installed (for tnlited, primarily).

Slapped the drive in the TiVo. Booted. Telneted in, ran:

mkswap /dev/hda8
swapon -a

Rebooted. Swap was accepted.

Ran:

mfsassert -please

Waited nervously through the green screen. It didn't green screen loop - once through the green screen, then back to the happy TiVo intro vid and life as usual.

So MFSTools 2.0 can (apparently, in my case) be made to work completely with a little finagling and not using the defaults.

Anybody else want to make a test run and either confirm or refute?

MC
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Old 08-15-2002, 02:18 AM   #68
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That's restoring using a minimal backup, right? i.e. no programs saved?

My attempt at using -r 0 (whilst expanding drives and saving programs) broke even before I had a chance to run mfsassert -please, and didn't recover (see earlier in thread). If I can get hold of a suitable disk I'll try restoring my emergency backup with mfstools restore -x -p -s 128 -r 0 etc. and let you know what happens. It would also be interesting to see how this works on a >140Gb total setup (which requires the larger swap file).
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Old 08-15-2002, 06:10 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ivor
That's restoring using a minimal backup, right? i.e. no programs saved?
Correct. Time (not being patient enough to leave my TiVo down that long for a proof of concept) and space (going from 100gb to 40gb, only having a 2.5gb partition for holding any backup images) were my primary reasons for not attempting the complete backup/restore.

Besides, that's the best kind of backup to test -r 0 from, the way I figure - it guarantees all MFS partitions are MFSTools 2.0 created.

Quote:

It would also be interesting to see how this works on a >140Gb total setup (which requires the larger swap file).
Theoretically, it should make no difference - having repaired the swap and gotten it recognized at 128mb, it shouldn't matter what size the overall setup is... But you're absolutely right, it'll be interesting to see if it works regardless.

MC
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Old 08-15-2002, 07:06 AM   #70
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Any thoughts on a repair solution for a DTiVo? Doing the mkswap after the drive is back in TiVo isn't really a viable option. I've read elsewhere in this post of doing a mkswap while the drive is out of TiVo, then after the drive is returned to TiVo, the swap isn't readable.

I'm still curious about which copy, backup, restore type commands need to be done in byteswap mode vs. non-byteswap.

Thanks.
rs
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Old 08-15-2002, 08:35 AM   #71
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So what's the consensus on new expansions?

I have an HDR-312 where I had previously replaced the 30G drive with an 80G drive with TiVoMad/mfstools 1.1.

Based on the Hinsdale directions, I can just put the 80G and my new 160G drive in my PC, boot with the mfstools 2.0 cdrom and run "mfsadd -x" to recognize the new drive.

According to a post from hinsdale in this thread and in tiger's original mfstools 2.0 announcement, the 64M of swap that I currently have should be sufficient. Is that a fair assumption?

I just want to make sure I have enough swap to recover from GSOD, if necessary.



Steve
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Old 08-15-2002, 11:14 AM   #72
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The reason Tiger thinks MFS Tools 2 doesn't need enlarged swap is that MFS Tools 2 uses larger blocks sizes, so mfsfix needs less space to run. However, MFS Tools 2.0 breaks mfsfix anyway, so this is hard to verify.

You should be OK if you use mfsadd with -r 0, but this hasn't really been verified. This doesn't use the larger block size, so mfsfix should complete, but you'll have to trust that both Hinsdale's and Merle Corey's upgrades are representative of your situation.
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Old 08-15-2002, 11:32 AM   #73
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I have been following the discussion with much interest, hoping to confirm that the lockups I am receiving on a daily basis now are the result of not having created a swap space when I upgraded my Series2 unit. I don't know if MFS Tools 2 has been updated but I used the version first released. I checked my log files and it does not appear that I have any swap space on the unit. I plan on trying to use the option 2 to fix but since I am not familiar with Linux, but do follow directions very well, are the commands listed for the option 2 fix all I will need execute in order to create a swap? Any comments, suggestions will be appreciated.

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Old 08-15-2002, 11:38 AM   #74
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First make sure you really do have a swap problem. You should see three lines giving a clear error message about problems activating swap.

Method 2 should work for you, although I don't think anyone's actually tried it on a Series 2. S2's don't need byteswapping, so you should just boot the MFST2 CD as normal.
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Old 08-15-2002, 11:40 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert S
You should be OK if you use mfsadd with -r 0, but this hasn't really been verified.
Not thoroughly, anyway. More datapoints are definitely better.

Of course, Steve's also looking at a >140GB capacity, so he has a choice between playing guinea pig or playing it safe.

Specifically, while -r 0 works (at least some of the time), you (Steve) will theoretically need the expanded swap space as well, and will need to do the song and dance to expand it (Robert nailed a good summary of the possible methods in the first message in this thread).

The guinea pig aspect comes in with not expanding the swap - according to one of Hinsdale's comments somewhere in all of this, the 64MB swap "limitation" may have been resolved in later versions of the TiVo software. If you're the gambling type, you can try not expanding and see what happens.

Of course, failure would essentially result in loss of whatever you've got on the drive, requiring you to reimage...

Me, I think I'm going to get myself a new drive and play a little more - I'll run another test scenario and see exactly what happens with >140GB capacity, 64MB swap, and that ever so enjoyable mfsassert -please.

I'll post my results when I've got them, but nobody hold off anything on my account - I haven't even ordered the new drive yet. I'm at least a week or two away from being able to sit down and play again.

And on a not-unrelated note, does anybody have any idea what's become of Tiger in the last few months?

MC
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Old 08-15-2002, 11:56 AM   #76
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Steve's in a rather sticky situation already. He can't just expand swap because his A drive is already full. He just wants to add a B drive. This should work, there's even a chance it might survive a green screen, but there's no easy way to guarantee it.

It might be safer to do a pipe transfer saving all recordings (see MFS Tools README, RESTORE section) and using the -xp, -r 0 and -s 128 options to move everything onto the new drive, expanding swap (will need to use one of the repair methods at the top) and then, once the new drive is verified, mfsadd the old drive as the B drive.

By the way, Merle, what size was your backup image? Did MFS Tools create a new pair of MFS partitions in addition to the original TiVo-created pair?
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Old 08-15-2002, 12:09 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert S
Steve's in a rather sticky situation already. He can't just expand swap because his A drive is already full. He just wants to add a B drive. This should work, there's even a chance it might survive a green screen, but there's no easy way to guarantee it.

It might be safer to do a pipe transfer saving all recordings (see MFS Tools README, RESTORE section) and using the -xp, -r 0 and -s 128 options to move everything onto the new drive, expanding swap (will need to use one of the repair methods at the top) and then, once the new drive is verified, mfsadd the old drive as the B drive.
Actually, I thought about doing that...

If I just run mfsadd to partition the 160G drive, then I really don't have the ability to create another swap partition before (since mfsadd would wipe it out) or after (no space left on new drive) I run it. I wish I had selected 128M swap size when I upgraded the first time, but didn't see the need to at that time...

I may just hold off on adding the 160G for a little while. I have a bunch of recordings that I'd prefer to keep, so that is my top priority at the moment.

Maybe by then Tiger will get back from vacation or from doing REAL work and can look into this stuff.



Steve
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Old 08-15-2002, 12:29 PM   #78
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The backup image is a stripped down, formerly upgraded, 20 hour image. (The original upgrade was to 100gb - my understanding is that the -s was required in order to destroy the expanded partitions and let everything be done over). When I restored via -x, it created a new pair of MFS partitions to fit the 40gb drive I was dropping back on to.

If you like, I can re-run the process tonight without -x in the restore and confirm that only a base 20 hour image is restored, and rerun afterwards with mfsadd -x -r 0 /dev/hdb. (Running mfsinfo in between to get the particulars.)

You're exactly right regarding adding the B drive, and making the new drive into the A being the safest route; I knew I was missing an obvious problem there.

MC
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Old 08-15-2002, 12:38 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by sbourgeo
If I just run mfsadd to partition the 160G drive, then I really don't have the ability to create another swap partition before (since mfsadd would wipe it out) or after (no space left on new drive) I run it.
You can do it during - if you do the piped transfer Robert refers to, you'll preserve all your shows, plus create a new swap on the fly, in the process of migrating everything from the 80GB to the 160GB. You can do the expansion at the same time, and even use -p to optimize the layout.

After that's done (and tested, and the swap fixed), you would run mfsadd to make your 80GB the B drive to your new 160GB A drive.

It's a slow process, mind you, but it's definitely the safest route, and accomplishes everything you need to do.

MC
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Old 08-15-2002, 12:42 PM   #80
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That's fine, Merle. I just wanted to be sure you hadn't put a 40Gb image on a 40Gb drive, which would've meant no MFS Tools 2.0-created partitions and rendered your success with mfsfix meaningless.

The two new partitions mean this was a valid test.

I suppose showing the same upgrade fails with -r 2 would mean something, but we're pretty sure that's the case. A test on a big drive is the really interesting case, particularly if -r 0 doesn't slow things down too much (keep the -p partition layout changes).

(Just paranoid, really.)
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Old 08-15-2002, 12:53 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert S
I suppose showing the same upgrade fails with -r 2 would mean something, but we're pretty sure that's the case. A test on a big drive is the really interesting case, particularly if -r 0 doesn't slow things down too much (keep the -p partition layout changes).
Hey, I can aim for failure, too. I'll run with -r 2 tonight just to prove the point (probably).

How big is big? I was planning on just going to 120GB for my new purchase, and merging it with the 40GB for large testing. That's more than a single 160GB, but it's way smaller than any dual-large config.

(I'll freely admit that my curiosity and testing aren't entirely selfless - my 100GB drive has started making the kachunk-kachunk-kachunk of doom, and I'd rather get it out of my TiVo before it's dead. Gotta make sure I've got a clean upgrade path. )

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Old 08-15-2002, 01:15 PM   #82
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If you can get a 120 + 40 to recover from a green screen, I'd be convinced (already close to convinced). You'd then have a two-drive configuration, much larger than any standard TiVo, which would cover most of the potential problems your current experiments haven't.
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Old 08-15-2002, 01:38 PM   #83
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Ok, so my current laundry list is:

40 w/ -r 2: Proof of failure

120+40 w/128MB swap & -r 0: Proof of success in large setups.

120+40 w/64MB swap & -r 0: Proof of possible mfsfix swap requirement resolution (in 3.0 at least).

Am I missing anything? Any requests? I'm limited by hardware to SA series 1 only, so I can't do any DTiVo experimentation.

MC
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Old 08-15-2002, 02:52 PM   #84
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[quote]Originally posted by Robert S
[b]First make sure you really do have a swap problem. You should see three lines giving a clear error message about problems activating swap.

If the swap is okay, would I not expect to see some message indicating the swap was activated?

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Old 08-15-2002, 02:54 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by Merle Corey


You can do it during - if you do the piped transfer Robert refers to, you'll preserve all your shows, plus create a new swap on the fly, in the process of migrating everything from the 80GB to the 160GB. You can do the expansion at the same time, and even use -p to optimize the layout.

After that's done (and tested, and the swap fixed), you would run mfsadd to make your 80GB the B drive to your new 160GB A drive.

It's a slow process, mind you, but it's definitely the safest route, and accomplishes everything you need to do.

MC
I'd rather hold off on the klugey stuff (like the swap workarounds) until the process is ironed out a little.

The TiVo I want to add it to is currently our "production" model and I want to minimize the risk as much as possible.


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Old 08-15-2002, 02:55 PM   #86
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If your swap is OK you'll see one line (very easy to miss) saying something like 'Activating swap <size>, priority -1'.
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Old 08-15-2002, 04:22 PM   #87
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I rebooted, then activated backdoors, went to /var/log/kernel and did not see any entry as described above. The only entry close was "Initialize with 1 live caches."

Thanks for your responses.
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Old 08-15-2002, 04:34 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by dobbie1
I rebooted, then activated backdoors, went to /var/log/kernel and did not see any entry as described above. The only entry close was "Initialize with 1 live caches."
Straight from my kernel log:

Jan 1 00:00:15 (none) kernel: Activating swap partitions
Jan 1 00:00:15 (none) kernel: Adding Swap: 130684k swap-space (priority -1)

It's very early in the boot process (you can tell because the date/time isn't set yet), but it's pretty easy to miss. The line you're looking at is around (ballpark number, YMMV) 100 lines too far down. (Or, an unknown number too soon, depending on where your logfile starts.)

Hope that helps!

MC
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Old 08-15-2002, 06:53 PM   #89
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Question

So what is the latest "best idea" for upgrading? I am going from a factory HDR312 (13.6+13.6) to 120. MFSTools 2.0 a la Hinsdale's page (what about all these flags people are talking about? -xp, -r 0, -s 128, etc.)? Will the old 1.1 solution on Hinsdale's page work; what disadvantages are there to the old procedure (aside from it taking longer)? BTW, I hope to upgrade to 120+120 sometime in the not-too-distant future.
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Old 08-15-2002, 07:13 PM   #90
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As you might guess, this is still a matter for debate, however, I think we can say the following:

If you want to be absolutely safe, stay away from MFS Tools 2.0! Use the older, proven tools in the original Hinsdale.

If you have to use MFS Tools 2.0 (there are some upgrades that can not be done with the old tools), avoid the -s option (increase swap partition file) and use -r 0 to force 1Mb block size.

The -x and -p options (you've combined them as -xp) cause MFS Tools to fill the hard drive with Tivo partitions and use an alternate partition layout that's believed to be faster.

If you want the fastest possible TiVo and are prepared to accept the risk that your TiVo might lose all its recordings without warning (if you get filesystem corruption), use MFS Tools 2.0 as described in new Hinsdale, but check your swap as described in the first post in this thread.
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