TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-23-2014, 12:47 PM   #1
slowbiscuit
FUBAR
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 2,671
House passes STELA, ends Cablecard integration requirement

http://www.fiercecable.com/story/hou...men/2014-07-22

Hasn't passed Senate yet so no telling what the final form will be, but removes the requirement that cableCos have to eat their own dog food (or crap if you prefer). Cards, that is.
slowbiscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 01:07 PM   #2
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 6,070
When you (that is stand-alone TiVo users) comprise only about 1 or 2 % of the market and you're up against the big MSO donors, prepare to lose. Or maybe congress sincerely believes consumers are getting the best free-enterprise deal from the MSO's -- uh huh.
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 01:50 PM   #3
squint
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 749
It might pass the Senate but in the end I still vote with my pocketbook. If it gets too ridiculous then I'll just BitTorrent everything. The only reason I have cable is for certain sports coverage. Everything else I can get via BT.
squint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 03:35 PM   #4
JosephB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 600
But does it remove the requirement that cable companies support cable cards?

I know it's an important thing in theory to fight for, but cable card is a dying technology. Requiring them to rely on it hasn't accomplished the stated goals of retail devices being first class citizens in the ecosystem. As long as they are still required to support retail devices then who cares, really.
__________________
Current: TiVo HD w/lifetime, 2 x 2 Tuner Premieres

Former: S1, S2 TiVos, UltimateTV, SD DirecTiVo (x3), SA 8300HD w/Passport Echo, DirecTV HR-24 (x2) , DISH 722k, DirecTV Genie + 2 mini
JosephB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 04:52 PM   #5
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephB View Post
Requiring them to rely on it hasn't accomplished the stated goals of retail devices being first class citizens in the ecosystem.
This is the biggest problem. The original goal of CC was to make retail devices work exactly the same as MSO rented boxes. Unfortunately the standard was designed back in the 90s with only linear TV in mind, but by the time it hit the market in 2006 we had started to expect things like VOD. Throw in SDV and the whole thing went to hell quickly.

I could care less if they dump CableCARDs and move on to a downloadable option instead, as long as it's an open standard that does not exclude retail devices completely. It would suck if my new Roamio suddenly became useless, but I doubt they would transition that quickly anyway. It'll take years for them to completely phase out CableCARDs, and by then I'll be ready for an upgrade anyway, so I'm really not worried.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 04:55 PM   #6
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 6,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephB View Post
But does it remove the requirement that cable companies support cable cards?

I know it's an important thing in theory to fight for, but cable card is a dying technology. Requiring them to rely on it hasn't accomplished the stated goals of retail devices being first class citizens in the ecosystem. As long as they are still required to support retail devices then who cares, really.
They've been supporting CableCARD's? I hadn't noticed. Perhaps a little better than they have "supported" Tuning Adapters.

Actually I agree. Losing the integration ban is not a big deal since it wasn't helping us anyway. The concept wasn't carefully thought out since it's the way the card is set up, paired and updated that makes the difference and that was still done at the factory, thus favoring the performance of cards in the leased equipment. Seems like that flaw should have been obvious from the start doesn't it?
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 05:20 PM   #7
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
Seems like that flaw should have been obvious from the start doesn't it?
It took over a decade from the time the law passed to when CCs were actually deployed there was lots of time in there for everyone to get their hand in the mix and jumble it up. And by the time it was finally released everyone was just so happy to have something they ignored the glaring flaws. Hopefully experience will teach them something for the next generation.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 05:43 PM   #8
BigJimOutlaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,672
Imagine if the House tried to pass a law that required us to rent our phones from our phone provider again.

Hello, 2014 is knocking. Nobody home?

Cards, tuning adapters, and analog can all die in a fire for all I care. I just hope that downloadable security thing works out for EVERYONE, asap, and without getting screwed on a price that replaces the cablecard rental fee.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 07-23-2014 at 05:48 PM.
BigJimOutlaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 06:00 PM   #9
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,398
Good news....even though I just bought a Roamio. Unnecessary. It shows the good and bad of government intervention.
trip1eX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 08:37 PM   #10
stevel
Dumb Blond
 
stevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 24,799
TC CLUB MEMBER
Unless I'm missing something, this means the eventual end of TiVo, HD Homerun and other similar devices. The cable companies can create proprietary protection and tuning mechanisms that they don't have to let anyone else use. I hope I'm wrong.
__________________
Steve
stevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 09:00 PM   #11
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevel View Post
Unless I'm missing something, this means the eventual end of TiVo, HD Homerun and other similar devices. The cable companies can create proprietary protection and tuning mechanisms that they don't have to let anyone else use. I hope I'm wrong.
That's not true. They are revoking the integrated security ban, which means their own boxes no longer need to have a CableCARD inside. But they are not revoking the whole law, which still establishes separated security for retail devices. (i.e. CableCARDs) So for now they'll still need to support CableCARDs they just don't have to use them in their own devices. The two barely have anything to do with one another now, so I doubt it will have any impact.

The Charter waiver that allows them to develop a downloadable security system for retail devices is another story. That one required it to be open, but never established it as having to be universal for all cable providers. So we could end up with a situation where someone like TiVo has to support multiple downloadable security systems to make a universal retail box.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 09:38 PM   #12
sbiller
Registered User
 
sbiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,870
My interpretation of the latest news (with the help of a few friends in high places)...

http://investordiscussionboard.com/b...lecards-retail

The biggest issue right now is the pending petition filed by TiVo associated with reinstating the vacated rules which were put in jeopardy by an Echostar decision. The FCC needs to clarify that the 2010 retail CableCARD rules are still in place. That, in my opinion, is the biggest risk to TiVo and other retail CC users.

The good news is that the TiVo Comcast agreement includes wording that includes retail CableCARD support on Comcast networks regardless of what the FCC or courts do.
sbiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 10:14 PM   #13
JosephB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller View Post
My interpretation of the latest news (with the help of a few friends in high places)...

http://investordiscussionboard.com/b...lecards-retail

The biggest issue right now is the pending petition filed by TiVo associated with reinstating the vacated rules which were put in jeopardy by an Echostar decision. The FCC needs to clarify that the 2010 retail CableCARD rules are still in place. That, in my opinion, is the biggest risk to TiVo and other retail CC users.

The good news is that the TiVo Comcast agreement includes wording that includes retail CableCARD support on Comcast networks regardless of what the FCC or courts do.
Given all the waivers and pending mergers, it's probably not a big deal. I'm almost positive that Charter's waiver filing has them voluntarily promising to support CableCard users indefinitely, regardless of the ultimate outcome of the Echostar appeals/decisions. I believe Comcast is probably committing to something similar.

Plus, every cable box up until this point has a cable card. They aren't going to throw that system out tomorrow or even next year. Even if they weren't mandated to keep supporting cable cards (which that's not what this bill says) it wouldn't be the end of current retail TiVos immediately.
__________________
Current: TiVo HD w/lifetime, 2 x 2 Tuner Premieres

Former: S1, S2 TiVos, UltimateTV, SD DirecTiVo (x3), SA 8300HD w/Passport Echo, DirecTV HR-24 (x2) , DISH 722k, DirecTV Genie + 2 mini
JosephB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 10:46 PM   #14
mattack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: sunnyvale
Posts: 17,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1eX View Post
Good news....even though I just bought a Roamio. Unnecessary. It shows the good and bad of government intervention.
Good why?

I'm generally against government intervention, WITHOUT the Cable Card mandate, we would NOT be able to use Tivos AT ALL.. at least not for anything but Clear QAM stations.. and as we all know, cable companies are now able to encrypt ALL channels.
mattack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 11:46 PM   #15
ajwees41
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Omaha,NE
Posts: 1,143
Do any of the current Tivo's (premiere/Roamio) accept downloadable security?
ajwees41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 12:01 AM   #16
telemark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 805
Imho, the integration ban continues to be relevant because it makes CableCard support a marginal cost of their other cable boxes. When CableCards are only used for 3rd party equipment, the whole cost of that infrastructure is attributable to outside devices, and the MSO's have a strong argument that it's too expensive to continue to support owner hardware.

The equipment companies like Tivo/SiliconDust will spend the effort to interoperate, but the MSO's often will do what they can to create a monopoly for their cable boxes rentals. Too much of MSO's explanations about something else, is an attempt at this in disguise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
The Charter waiver that allows them to develop a downloadable security system for retail devices is another story. That one required it to be open, but never established it as having to be universal for all cable providers. So we could end up with a situation where someone like TiVo has to support multiple downloadable security systems to make a universal retail box.
Until we see a spec / implementation for this, since it's being designed by the MSO's it's safer to assume it's going to have some attribute(s) that are anti-consumer or anti-3rd party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbiller
The good news is that the TiVo Comcast agreement includes wording that includes retail CableCARD support on Comcast networks regardless of what the FCC or courts do.
Comcast and Boxee have an agreement to issue decrypting Ethernet DTA's. Since Boxee was acquired and the FCC changed the deadline, Comcast has no longer issued these.

If Tivo Corp is acquired and drops retail, will there be anyone to enforce the agreement?

Last edited by telemark : 07-24-2014 at 02:39 AM.
telemark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 02:42 AM   #17
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 3,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
If Tivo Corp is acquired and drops retail, will there be anyone to enforce the agreement?
Your whole post was great. But, that last bit is what I'm thinking about when I post things about TiVo being bought/acquired, leaving hardware (technically they already have), and leaving retail (it's less important, now that they have much more MSO relationships and partnerships).

Many companies sell individual divisions to different companies, sometimes just one, sometimes all of them.

Even if one company bought/acquired TiVo, it's common for the new owner to spin-off/sell-off parts of what they bought, to other companies.

Unless the gov't says "if you do this, you can't do that", or TiVo makes keeping things whole part of the terms, TiVo owners could wake up one day, and it could be a very bad day for them.

Back to the part I quoted: I somewhat (want to) believe that TiVo is trying to protect retail, with their MSO partnerships. They can't beat them, so they are joining them, but not by being owned by any of them (yet). If TiVo stops fighting for retail, it does not paint a pretty picture for me, for the future. If TiVo stops fighting for retail, still holds (almost) all the patents, and continues to hoard them and/or demand unreasonable licensing fees to use them, they could become the destroyer of retail, rather than the protector.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 01:19 PM   #18
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 14,299
If this goes through, all it will mean is that the cable companies make more profits. Since they won't have the extra cost of cable cards in their own devices. I would be shocked if they lowered the prices of their STB monthly rentals because of it.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
40TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 01:24 PM   #19
shrike4242
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
If this goes through, all it will mean is that the cable companies make more profits. Since they won't have the extra cost of cable cards in their own devices. I would be shocked if they lowered the prices of their STB monthly rentals because of it.
They won't drop prices, since if they tried to explain it to the majority of the customers about the price drop, their heads would likely swim in the details.

The profits will just get squirreled away without a comment from anyone.

I'm just hoping that with these changes, it won't require threat of a FCC complaint to get a cable company to provide a CC + TA on demand.
__________________
Current:
Roamio Pro (x3), Premiere XL4, Mini

Former:
Sony S1, Toshiba RS-TX20 w/DVD burner, Tivo S2, S2 DT, S3, TivoHD, Premiere XL (one dead, one gifted, one w/Lifetime)
shrike4242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 02:47 PM   #20
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajwees41 View Post
Do any of the current Tivo's (premiere/Roamio) accept downloadable security?
I will go out on a limb and say no, as the standard has not been written yet. But I am hoping that the existing cable card slot in TiVos will be able to take a new type of card that will allow downloadable security to be loaded into them, wishfully thinking on my part??.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 04:04 PM   #21
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 25,596
The integration ban hasn't really done anything to make the consumer CC experience better. They send out boxes with the CC soldered in place and preactivated for their system and hey have a completely different UI in their support system for setting up their own boxes vs retail CC devices. The purpose of the integration ban was to make it so retail devices and rented boxes were on equal footing, but that has never really been the case. By the time CCs were actually deployed MSOs had started offering additional services which were not compatible with CCs such as VOD and SDV. TiVo had to push hard to get the Tuning Adapter adopted just so we could tune SDV channels and even now they are not well supported and problematic for a lot of users.

While CCs allow us to access digital channels, which we wouldn't be able to do without them, they're also a poorly designed mess in need of a more up to date replacement. I just hope that the MSOs learned their lesson with CCs and will come up with something easier to use next time around.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 04:36 PM   #22
shrike4242
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 276
I agree that we need something else in place, though there's no real impetus for the cable companies to make that quickly available. If there were some push to have them either save time/money/effort to have another solution in place that would work, that's another matter entirely. If there was a cleaner and easier solution than having CCs and TAs, I'd be all for it, as long as they don't break what's working until it can be tested and verified.

I just think that this change in the environment will make them less likely to support third party devices because it'll be just too much work for them.
__________________
Current:
Roamio Pro (x3), Premiere XL4, Mini

Former:
Sony S1, Toshiba RS-TX20 w/DVD burner, Tivo S2, S2 DT, S3, TivoHD, Premiere XL (one dead, one gifted, one w/Lifetime)
shrike4242 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 05:21 PM   #23
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 6,070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
....... While CCs allow us to access digital channels, which we wouldn't be able to do without them, they're also a poorly designed mess in need of a more up to date replacement. I just hope that the MSOs learned their lesson with CCs and will come up with something easier to use next time around.
There may be a lesson that we would want the MSO's to have learned. But, from their viewpoint, what lesson should they learn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrike4242 View Post
I agree that we need something else in place, though there's no real impetus for the cable companies to make that quickly available. ........
This. I don't see what "lesson" they could have learned that would make them more likely to want to enable third party devices.

Seems to me the sad CC/TA experience has just validated the MSO's business model of suppressing third party access. Not a lesson I wanted them to learn.
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 08:18 PM   #24
telemark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 805
Quote:
While CCs allow us to access digital channels, which we wouldn't be able to do without them, they're also a poorly designed mess in need of a more up to date replacement. I just hope that the MSOs learned their lesson with CCs and will come up with something easier to use next time around.
The way I saw it, there was an intentional campaign by certain CableCo's to kill off popularity by pretending to be inept. And they've been successful. In a just world, they should be punished instead of rewarded but that's not our world. At least we can call it as it is, get the narrative right, before we go into the next version.

We have something functional today which gives a very useful end product (consumer oriented Tivo DVR). I honestly expect the replacement is going to include more overbearing control mechanisms. To make up a few, not being able to record, not be able to skip commercials, not be able to skip back, expiring recordings, control number of times being views.

While I just made that up, all I did was copy the modes that we already have with OnDemand.
telemark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 09:28 PM   #25
bareyb
Under Maintenance
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 22,559
TC CLUB MEMBER
Agreed. The days of Ad free (via skipping) TV are coming to an end. Gonna have to start timing those Pee breaks accordingly or downloading everything to a PC for pre-processing before we can watch it.
__________________
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by human error
bareyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 10:32 PM   #26
mattack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: sunnyvale
Posts: 17,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb View Post
Agreed. The days of Ad free (via skipping) TV are coming to an end. Gonna have to start timing those Pee breaks accordingly or downloading everything to a PC for pre-processing before we can watch it.
If that happens, then I'll just go back to Netflix. I'm even one of the semi-supporters of On Demand, even with some unskippable ads, but mostly because as I've said before, most shows, even "broadcast" channels, end up with a version with VERY limited commercials (less than Hulu, I think) a few days after broadcast.. so it's a good backup solution.
mattack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 02:31 AM   #27
bareyb
Under Maintenance
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 22,559
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
If that happens, then I'll just go back to Netflix. I'm even one of the semi-supporters of On Demand, even with some unskippable ads, but mostly because as I've said before, most shows, even "broadcast" channels, end up with a version with VERY limited commercials (less than Hulu, I think) a few days after broadcast.. so it's a good backup solution.
I don't mind the one or two commercials they have on VOD that much either. I do feel ss soon as the powers that be can kill off the any alternative to streaming, they will up the number of commercials dramatically. We'll probably will be back to 20 minutes per hour in no time. I'm dreading it. I suspect if they make it too untenable then I'll figure out how to process the commercials out of my stuff before I view it. They already have Free Applications that can do that now. I already use PyTivo, I think all I'd need is that KTTG (?) thing. It sounds like it works pretty well.
__________________
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by human error
bareyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 01:38 PM   #28
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 14,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb View Post
Agreed. The days of Ad free (via skipping) TV are coming to an end. Gonna have to start timing those Pee breaks accordingly or downloading everything to a PC for pre-processing before we can watch it.
If we ae forced to go back to how it was when I watched TV in the 70's with no way to pause, rewind, Fast Forward, etc.. then I will just stop watching broadcast Tv. There is no way I am going to watch 20 minutes of commercials every hour
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
40TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 04:47 PM   #29
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
If we ae forced to go back to how it was when I watched TV in the 70's with no way to pause, rewind, Fast Forward, etc.. then I will just stop watching broadcast Tv. There is no way I am going to watch 20 minutes of commercials every hour

__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 05:06 PM   #30
randian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
If we ae forced to go back to how it was when I watched TV in the 70's with no way to pause, rewind, Fast Forward, etc.. then I will just stop watching broadcast Tv. There is no way I am going to watch 20 minutes of commercials every hour
I don't understand why the cablecos want to increase restrictions on viewers (force commercials, forbid DVR-DVR transfers). Do they really believe their carriage fees would increase measurably if they could force DVR customers to watch commercials? I think that's a fool's wish.
randian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |