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Old 07-14-2014, 09:22 AM   #1
smbaker
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The Last Ship S01E04 We'll Get There

Okay, so I have no idea whether you can tow a ship that large with the parachutes they deployed, but I rather doubt it would have made a significant difference.

I also don't think it would have turned the propellers and spun up the alternators to produce significant power.

I don't understand why they had no generator capability whatsoever to power a little refrigerator for the samples. Not even a portable.

Letting the samples actually sink to and rest on the ocean floor sounded enormously risky.

What is the crew capacity of a destroyer? 3000 gallons of water, properly rationed, sounded to me like it would have been enough to last the number of people that I see in the show.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:38 AM   #2
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Yeah, this one was probably the worst of the bunch for me so far. It was hard for me to detach from reality and enjoy this one.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:55 AM   #3
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Now thats a novel way to turn a guided missile destroyer into a schooner. I think you'd have to have hurricane winds and momentum to make a dent into a 9000 ton vessel but what do I know, not a seaman.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:29 AM   #4
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Yeah, I mentioned to my son that the laws of Physics must be different in this show.

Also, wouldn't it make sense for them to have a lookout up on a mast, with no radar, instead of just looking out of the bridge windows?
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:46 AM   #5
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I almost expected Frankie and Annette to show up at the beach party.

And, with Dash Riprock as the cap'n of this Arleigh Burke class destroyer, his stalwart crew can accomplish anything!
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:58 AM   #6
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Yeah, this one was probably the worst of the bunch for me so far. It was hard for me to detach from reality and enjoy this one.
I think I've figured out the problem. As someone alluded to in the other thread, they're trying to do 'Star Trek' on a naval ship in 2014.

You can't just make up 2014 technology and have it behave in ways that are contrary to reality. We already have 2014 tech and we know how it works.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:32 PM   #7
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The parachutes seem like a stretch. Don't they have oars???

Also, when the salt water filtration failed, why didn't they use the captain's magic hands to repair it?



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Old 07-14-2014, 07:16 PM   #8
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The Last Ship S01E04 We'll Get There

I just rewatched the exchange where they were trying to figure out what to do. The parachutes were NOT for moving the ship. They were only to spin the propellers enough to generate electricity for cooling the lab while the engines were off. They couldn't turn the engine on until the parachutes worked, though, because the case needed to be at the bottom of the ocean. Once the parachutes worked they could put the samples back in the lab and go back to their once every six hours schedule.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:20 PM   #9
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well

i've been enjoying this as popcorn summer fare but even i have to agree this episode was kinda lame

the fake suspense they have done so well creating was non existent - well maybe except for the scene where they put the viruses in the ocean to keep them cool
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I just rewatched the exchange where they were trying to figure out what to do. The parachutes were NOT for moving the ship. They were only to spin the propellers enough to generate electricity for cooling the lab while the engines were off.
Right but the way they got the propellers to move was by moving the ship.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:37 PM   #11
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They may have had hand-powered reverse osmosis filters in their life raft kits. They're hard work but one person can generate more than enough fresh water.

They do make sail kites to supplement the engine power of slower vessels:


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Old 07-14-2014, 11:17 PM   #12
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Right but the way they got the propellers to move was by moving the ship.
Which made it really confusing how they were using the parachutes while the sample container was out. They're just not putting much thought into this. They need to hire some technical consultants. It doesn't even necessarily need to be consultants who are experts on naval ships. Just guys that understood high school physics would be a huge step forward.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:32 PM   #13
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Once the kite sails were up and the prop was being turned, they were able to generate electricity and hoisted the samples back onboard.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:44 AM   #14
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Once the kite sails were up and the prop was being turned, they were able to generate electricity and hoisted the samples back onboard.
True. But before they hoisted it up it was dragging along the ocean floor at a pretty good clip. That can't be good for the case.

I've definitely put this show on my list of things I enjoy as long as I don't think about it too much.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:36 AM   #15
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They do make sail kites to supplement the engine power of slower vessels
I'm guessing that sail is just a big larger than the 3 standard issue parachutes they were using.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:13 AM   #16
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I just kept thinking "I'm sure" many times during this ep. The show might have just jumped the shark.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:21 AM   #17
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Right but the way they got the propellers to move was by moving the ship.
And I am guessing the ship would have to be moving at a pretty good clip to have the propellers spin fast enough to generate that much power.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:25 AM   #18
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Right but the way they got the propellers to move was by moving the ship.
What? I don't understand that. The way it sounded to me was that the parachutes were hooked up to something that would turn the propellers without the engine running.

As for the case dragging along the bottom, I think we were supposed to assume they hoisted it up and took it back to the lab before the ship started going full speed ahead.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:27 AM   #19
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What? I don't understand that. The way it sounded to me was that the parachutes were hooked up to something that would turn the propellers without the engine running.
Moving the ship causes the propellers to rotate, which would generate electricity (motors and generators being pretty much the same thing).

Quote:
As for the case dragging along the bottom, I think we were supposed to assume they hoisted it up and took it back to the lab before the ship started going full speed ahead.
They only called for the case to be brought up after the ship had started moving significantly (and dragging the case, one would pressume).
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:28 AM   #20
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Yeah, I mentioned to my son that the laws of Physics must be different in this show.

............
And every show on TV and every movie too.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:11 AM   #21
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Moving the ship causes the propellers to rotate, which would generate electricity (motors and generators being pretty much the same thing).
I guess maybe I don't understand how the ship propellers work.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:11 AM   #22
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I guess maybe I don't understand how the ship propellers work.
Greatly simplified, an electric motor turns electricity into motion. Running it backwards (i.e. forcing the motion) would generate electricity. In other words, an electric motor and a generator are pretty much the same machines, running backwards.

In real life, this would not work nearly as well as it does in the show.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:12 AM   #23
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I guess maybe I don't understand how the ship propellers work.
They work in principle similar to your standard fan. A fan draws air from behind it and blows (or propels) it out the front. Think of the propeller as drawing water in from the front side and propelling it behind the ship. If you blow air with enough force/volume into a fan it will cause the fan to spin. If you drag a propeller through the water, it will cause the propeller to spin.

Whether a couple of parachutes would pull a ship that size with enough velocity to cause the propeller to spin fast enough to generate any meaningful amount of power is questionable at best.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:22 AM   #24
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Rather amazing too that the wind was in just the right direction for the island, and also that uninhabited islands have huge fresh water tanks waiting.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddyj View Post
Greatly simplified, an electric motor turns electricity into motion. Running it backwards (i.e. forcing the motion) would generate electricity. In other words, an electric motor and a generator are pretty much the same machines, running backwards.
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They work in principle similar to your standard fan. A fan draws air from behind it and blows (or propels) it out the front. Think of the propeller as drawing water in from the front side and propelling it behind the ship. If you blow air with enough force/volume into a fan it will cause the fan to spin. If you drag a propeller through the water, it will cause the propeller to spin.
Ok... I guess I was just assuming they would hook up the parachutes to the propellers and the wind would turn it and generate some electricity. Not that the ship had to be moving to drag the propeller through the water.

Maybe the show writers were counting on enough people having slept through all their physics classes like me.

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Rather amazing too that the wind was in just the right direction for the island, and also that uninhabited islands have huge fresh water tanks waiting.
I didn't have too much problem with this. I'm sure there were streams on the paradise island to get water from, and someone (it was Jayne I think... I don't know his name on the show) did warn the captain that he'd just killed the whole ship full of people if he was wrong about the direction of the wind after having wasted all the time they could have been traveling towards the island waiting for the wind to pick up.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddyj View Post
Greatly simplified, an electric motor turns electricity into motion. Running it backwards (i.e. forcing the motion) would generate electricity.
According to the transcript, there was an alternator attached to the impeller:

Quote:
Boats! Prepare to launch the chutes! Port side, on my mark! [Shots] - Second gun! Fire! - [Shot] Third gun! - Fire! - [Shot] Holy ****.
Hell, yeah.
[Chuckles] [Whirring] Set modified condition three.
Bring up that case! - Man: Aye, sir.
- [Exhales] Okay.
- Gently does it.
- [Metal clanks] Easy.
Central, this is M.
P.
A.
Close load circuits on the impeller alternators.
Let's do this thing.
This implies to me that it was a separate alternator attached to the impeller, rather than just running the DC motors that drive the impellers backwards. (I'm making an assumption that the impellers are driven by DC motors like a diesel-electric locomotive or a diesel-electric submarine, which could be incorrect; alternatively they could be driven by the diesel engines directly, in which case I would expect the alternators to be attached to the engine rather than the impeller)

ETA: Propulsion system on Arleigh Burke class destroyers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Navy
Like most modern U.S. surface combatants, DDG 51 utilizes gas turbine propulsion. Employing four General Electric LM 2500 gas turbines to produce 100,000 total shaft horsepower via a dual shaft design, Arleigh Burke-class destroyers are capable of achieving 30 plus knot speeds in open seas.
ETA: Electrical system:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Defense industry daily
Right now, DDG-51 destroyers are fielded with a ship service electrical system, and an independent main propulsion system of LM2500 gas turbines that are tied to a mechanical drive through the Main Reduction Gear assembly. Each shaft is tied to 2 LM2500 gas turbines (GTMs), which have just 2 speeds: off, and on. Another 3 ship service turbine-generators (GTGs) provide electrical power, with the 3rd designed as a redundant back-up.

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Old 07-15-2014, 10:29 AM   #27
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That's why I said "greatly simplified".
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:42 AM   #28
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and also that uninhabited islands have huge fresh water tanks waiting.
Who said it was uninhabited?
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:57 AM   #29
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Or that it had huge tanks?
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:07 AM   #30
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When the crew members were pulling the parachutes off of the HELICOPTER, which I am assuming where they got them, because why else would you have parachutes on a destroyer? Didn't someone think, hey we have a HELICOPTER, that could be used to go find water or land, or if anything to be used as a generator to keep the samples cold?
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