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Old 07-14-2014, 01:00 AM   #1
decaffeinated
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New Roamio Plus, 2 random reboots already

The new Roamio Plus is my 5th Tivo unit and it's my first to randomly reboot. Reboot #1 occurred while I was copying season pass info from an HD to the Roamio. Reboot #2 occurred when my wife randomly pressed the Guide button on the remote.

Given these random reboots and the inability to cleanly[*] copy Season Pass data from an activated, online HD to the new Roamio (via tivo.com), I'm not particularly happy.

I've read quite a few forums regarding the Roamio reboots and a lot of folks had issues with cable cards. The cable card I'm using is 5 years old, so I guess I'll drive down to a Comcast store and swap my Motorola M-Card for something that's hopefully newer. I called Comcast and the tech support rep told me that she could not push a firmware upgrade to my M-Card and would not guarantee that anything I picked up @ the Comcast store would be any better/newer.

Sigh.

[*] Corrupt - Delete Me <== that's some bitching QA, right there

Last edited by decaffeinated : 07-14-2014 at 01:02 AM. Reason: It's a Roamio Plus, not a Pro
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:01 AM   #2
lgnad
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<shrug> maybe you got a dud, maybe its just struggling to process all the updates/copied data, etc. Give it a couple days to settle and and then you'll know...

I used Kttmg to copy season passes between three different boxes just recently when cascading boxes between users. Took like <5 minutes and went perfectly. I assume you were using the weak-sauce website to copy the passes?

The first couple versions of the software was shaky. What version is the box running? Its pretty solid for most users at this point...

Firmware updates for Motorolla cards has not been a concern that I have been aware of.
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:23 AM   #3
decaffeinated
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Originally Posted by lgnad View Post
I used Kttmg to copy season passes between three different boxes just recently when cascading boxes between users. Took like <5 minutes and went perfectly. I assume you were using the weak-sauce website to copy the passes?
Yep...used tivo.com's Season Pass Manager. I tried Kttmg...it could not "see" the HD on my local network from which I wanted to copy the season pass info. I eventually found a workaround that won't be fully effected until all of the "corrupt" season passes can be manually reseeded when out-of-production television series return in the fall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgnad View Post
The first couple versions of the software was shaky. What version is the box running? Its pretty solid for most users at this point...

Firmware updates for Motorolla cards has not been a concern that I have been aware of.
Tivo version: 20.4.1-USA-6-848
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:29 PM   #4
decaffeinated
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decaffeinated View Post
I called Comcast and the tech support rep told me that she could not push a firmware upgrade to my M-Card and would not guarantee that anything I picked up @ the Comcast store would be any better/newer.
Following up on my situation. Before I headed off to a Comcast store and swapped cable cards, I thought I would ask around and nail down the latest and greatest Motorola firmware version number. That info at least gives me a goal (i.e., find a cable card with version x.y).

Nope. Not gonna' happen.

I called Comcast on 5 separate occasions asking for this info and was stonewalled 4 times (no cooperation whatsoever) and disconnected in the middle of the 5th call. Fun fact, if you call back after a disconnect, Comcast refuses to reconnect with the tech with whom you were previously speaking.

I opened a ticket with Tivo Support asking for the L&G Moto firmware version number. They said, "We don't have that information."

Checkmate.

Tivo Support did requst data from my connection and determined that my SNR is too high and that I need to add some attenuators. I replied, "How many attenuators and where is a URL so that I can look at them and maybe buy them online?" Tivo would not send me an attenuator URL. That's awesome.

Anybody got an attenuator URL? Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:32 PM   #5
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decaffeinated View Post
Tivo Support did requst data from my connection and determined that my SNR is too high and that I need to add some attenuators. I replied, "How many attenuators and where is a URL so that I can look at them and maybe buy them online?" Tivo would not send me an attenuator URL. That's awesome.

Anybody got an attenuator URL? Thanks in advance.
While attenuators (of the sort that are mostly just a resistor inside) are cheap, simple, and sometimes work without issue, there's a better way to attenuate a digital signal: Add splitters (daisy-chain) and/or change the splitter to one with more out ports, and put terminators on any resulting unused ports (the terminators are a must, for unused ports and wall-plates, in the digital age). Also, if the splitter changes are made upstream, the length of the cable downstream adds attenuation, due to resistance.

The simple attenuators are not even allowed in my cable market. The techs are not allowed to install them, and are directed to remove them, when they find them. If I had any in-use, and a tech came out, they'd remove them and use splitters and terminators. If I refused to not-use terminators, they'd blame all the problems on them being there.

I have attenuators of different values, which I use to find the level of attenuation I need, then use that value to choose the splitters instead.

In the real-world, where "SNR" is SNR as defined by a standard, there is no such thing as an excessive SNR level (the higher, the better, period). TiVo uses a bastardized measurement, which results in SNR going higher with a stronger signal. Then, making things hell for customers, they say your SNR is too high, instead of saying the signal is too strong. This leads to you sounding like an idiot when you tell a cable tech/rep that you need a lower SNR, or that your SNR is too high.

Focus on trying to get the signal strength/power to not be pegged at 100 all the time (no matter how overly-strong a signal is, a TiVo just reads 100), and your SNR will drop, since TiVo uses signal strength for part of their improper SNR value.

Good luck.
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:03 AM   #6
mdengland
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Exclamation Post-Late September Code Update - Ugh.

Following the latest software update (20.4.4a-USA-6-846), both my Roamio and Roamio Plus DVR's began random reboots (late September update). I've had the Roamio since March 2014 and the Plus since 8/10/2014. No issue on either - until the code update.

I called Tivo Tech Support in Denver and found them useless. The Supervisor said "We've not had any reports of issues of this kind...".

On the Roamio, my SNR is 36db and my signal strength is at 90%. The Plus is having similar performance characteristics. I'm thinking either they have a bad code update (most likely), or a frequency spectrum issue.

Question: Has anyone looked at frequency range? I use Verizon Fios, and they operate above the 1GHz spectrum. I've got splitters that run 5MHz to 1GHz only, and have some 5MHz - 2.xGHz coax splitters on order. Curious if that could be the issue? All my systems are networked via Cat5e/1Gb/s Ethernet running on a flat Cisco switched network (MOCA is not enabled).
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:23 AM   #7
kbmb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decaffeinated View Post
Following up on my situation. Before I headed off to a Comcast store and swapped cable cards, I thought I would ask around and nail down the latest and greatest Motorola firmware version number. That info at least gives me a goal (i.e., find a cable card with version x.y).

Nope. Not gonna' happen.

I called Comcast on 5 separate occasions asking for this info and was stonewalled 4 times (no cooperation whatsoever) and disconnected in the middle of the 5th call. Fun fact, if you call back after a disconnect, Comcast refuses to reconnect with the tech with whom you were previously speaking.

I opened a ticket with Tivo Support asking for the L&G Moto firmware version number. They said, "We don't have that information."

Checkmate.

Tivo Support did requst data from my connection and determined that my SNR is too high and that I need to add some attenuators. I replied, "How many attenuators and where is a URL so that I can look at them and maybe buy them online?" Tivo would not send me an attenuator URL. That's awesome.

Anybody got an attenuator URL? Thanks in advance.
I'm sure each market is different, but here in NH I have Motorola M Cards on Comcast and I have FW 06.25.
Those are working fine with 4 and 6 tuners. I think that's the latest and that's the FW Tivo requires to have all 6 tuners work.

Be careful with the SNR, especially on the Plus/Pro units since Tivo amps the signal.....you might attenuate it and cause other issues. Just make sure you watch it if you add an attenuator or splitter. I agree with @ nooneuknow....just get a good splitter and terminate the unused port(s). I really think each new Tivo support trainee gets a piece of paper saying.....tell the customer their SNR is too high....this should confuse them enough to get them off the phone.

Good luck!

-Kevin
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Old 10-01-2014, 05:54 PM   #8
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
I'm sure each market is different, but here in NH I have Motorola M Cards on Comcast and I have FW 06.25.
Those are working fine with 4 and 6 tuners. I think that's the latest and that's the FW Tivo requires to have all 6 tuners work.

Be careful with the SNR, especially on the Plus/Pro units since Tivo amps the signal.....you might attenuate it and cause other issues. Just make sure you watch it if you add an attenuator or splitter. I agree with @ nooneuknow....just get a good splitter and terminate the unused port(s). I really think each new Tivo support trainee gets a piece of paper saying.....tell the customer their SNR is too high....this should confuse them enough to get them off the phone.

Good luck!

-Kevin
Thanks for that. You also added a very valid point, which I tend to overlook bringing up (or just don't, intentionally), which is that the 6-tuner Roamio models have internal amplification, which on it's own, or combined with TiVo not properly calibrating their readings to offset things (properly), makes higher value readings on those less likely to cause problems, and increases the chances of over-attenuating (no matter which method is used), making things worse, by overshooting, or dropping some frequencies/channels enough that some channels work OK, and others won't, or will be right on the edge.

IMO, since TiVo bastardizes their readings anyway, they should calibrate them to make the reading between 4 and 6 tuner models balanced, where 90% strength and 36dB SNR will work the same on all.

Without having a 6 tuner model on-hand, I am often forced to state what works well for 4 tuner ones, say that 6 tuner ones are different, and hope that others will post accurate data/info/advice for those.

I don't know if TiVo support is still doing it. But, they used to insist that Plus/Pro users required attenuation, on signal values many here have found to work perfectly on the Plus/Pro, but would be too strong for a base model.

Those with Tuning adapters, using a 2-way split, not the IN-OUT inline connection, can get non-bastardized values, in standardized format, from the TA diags screens, regardless of the tuners being on SDV, or not. This is one way that members could know what the signal is, before it gets altered by the TiVo, then bastardized, without equal representation across models.
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:06 PM   #9
kbmb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Thanks for that. You also added a very valid point, which I tend to overlook bringing up (or just don't, intentionally), which is that the 6-tuner Roamio models have internal amplification, which on it's own, or combined with TiVo not properly calibrating their readings to offset things (properly), makes higher value readings on those less likely to cause problems, and increases the chances of over-attenuating (no matter which method is used), making things worse, by overshooting, or dropping some frequencies/channels enough that some channels work OK, and others won't, or will be right on the edge.

IMO, since TiVo bastardizes their readings anyway, they should calibrate them to make the reading between 4 and 6 tuner models balanced, where 90% strength and 36dB SNR will work the same on all.

Without having a 6 tuner model on-hand, I am often forced to state what works well for 4 tuner ones, say that 6 tuner ones are different, and hope that others will post accurate data/info/advice for those.

I don't know if TiVo support is still doing it. But, they used to insist that Plus/Pro users required attenuation, on signal values many here have found to work perfectly on the Plus/Pro, but would be too strong for a base model.

Those with Tuning adapters, using a 2-way split, not the IN-OUT inline connection, can get non-bastardized values, in standardized format, from the TA diags screens, regardless of the tuners being on SDV, or not. This is one way that members could know what the signal is, before it gets altered by the TiVo, then bastardized, without equal representation across models.
Couldn't agree more!

I sometimes imagine a world where Tivo would just add the ACTUAL signal levels it reads.....or at least let the level go beyond 100% so people can see how "hot" the signal is. Tivo clearly states on their site that 100% isn't bad by itself (if the true number is right around 100%). But since the damn thing stops at 100%, people don't know if it's 101% or 132%!!!

The thing that I always go back on is I "do" have both a Basic and Plus in the house. And I've taken the time to hook both up to the same outlet. It's clear as day.....the Plus on the outlet reads 100% and 41dB SNR, while the Basic, on the exact same outlet reads 93% and 36dB SNR. Now Tivo....why should I have to attenuate the signal because YOUR device is boosting it. Seems counterintuitive

And when I did try to mess around to bring down those higher levels, I had exactly what you mention happen....some channels were fine, whereas others dropped way to low and started pixelating. So back to the higher levels for me, which hasn't given me any issues.

To the OP.....unless your signal is REALLY hot.....I'd imagine this isn't your rebooting issue. Mainly since it reboots when you do something (ie. press a button).

-Kevin
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:23 PM   #10
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
Couldn't agree more!

I sometimes imagine a world where Tivo would just add the ACTUAL signal levels it reads.....or at least let the level go beyond 100% so people can see how "hot" the signal is. Tivo clearly states on their site that 100% isn't bad by itself (if the true number is right around 100%). But since the damn thing stops at 100%, people don't know if it's 101% or 132%!!!

The thing that I always go back on is I "do" have both a Basic and Plus in the house. And I've taken the time to hook both up to the same outlet. It's clear as day.....the Plus on the outlet reads 100% and 41dB SNR, while the Basic, on the exact same outlet reads 93% and 36dB SNR. Now Tivo....why should I have to attenuate the signal because YOUR device is boosting it. Seems counterintuitive

And when I did try to mess around to bring down those higher levels, I had exactly what you mention happen....some channels were fine, whereas others dropped way to low and started pixelating. So back to the higher levels for me, which hasn't given me any issues.

To the OP.....unless your signal is REALLY hot.....I'd imagine this isn't your rebooting issue. Mainly since it reboots when you do something (ie. press a button).

-Kevin
Couldn't agree more! (back at you)

Either use standardized values, or use both sets if they must have their version present. If they stick with what they have, make the "100" change colors, or flash, or something. A step better, like you said, extend the scale to greater than 100, maybe even make that "157" change color, flash, or something...
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