TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-16-2014, 04:23 PM   #151
NorthAlabama
tabasco rules
 
NorthAlabama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: rocket city, al
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grakthis View Post
I don't know what else to say to you here. It's kind of hilarious that you're wrong about how word meanings is not semantics, which means your wrong about what semantics means, which produces this infinite loop of you being wrong.
no, quite the contrary. i'm saying that the original post is being misrepresented by the accusers in its entirety, in an effort to forward some agenda.

the facts don't legitimately support "extortion" or "threats", so there can be no semantics over those characterizations.
__________________


The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you. - David Foster Wallace
NorthAlabama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 04:29 PM   #152
Diana Collins
Registered User
 
Diana Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New York City Suburbs
Posts: 1,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grakthis View Post
I think we question why this principle is so important?....
Forgive me (and this may get me blasted) but...

Who the heck are you, or the other members of this forum, to question why someone holds a principle as important or not?
__________________
Current Setup: 2 Roamio Pros, 5 Minis on FiOS (all with lifetime)

Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006
Diana Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:22 PM   #153
randyb359
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 532
Most of the companies that refund partial months don't really. They pro rate the last month when they send you the bill because they have you pay after you use it. Those companies where you pay in advance don't pro rate and give refunds. For example Netflix, Amazon Prime, prepaid carriers and Tivo.
randyb359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:25 PM   #154
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,272
btw did anyone see Germany just kill Brazil in the semi-finals last week? If not you missed a bloodbath.
trip1eX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:28 PM   #155
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyb359 View Post
Most of the companies that refund partial months don't really. They pro rate the last month when they send you the bill because they have you pay after you use it. Those companies where you pay in advance don't pro rate and give refunds. For example Netflix, Amazon Prime, prepaid carriers and Tivo.
good examples. Plus doesn't Tivo load guide data a few weeks in advance? I would think your Tivo could then still record for another 2 weeks after you cancel. I haven't had Tivo in years but they don't have to phone home on a daily or even weekly basis as far as I remember.

Last edited by trip1eX : 07-16-2014 at 05:39 PM.
trip1eX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:37 PM   #156
NorthAlabama
tabasco rules
 
NorthAlabama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: rocket city, al
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyb359 View Post
Most of the companies that refund partial months don't really. They pro rate the last month when they send you the bill because they have you pay after you use it.
other than the local electric and water companies, would you please name?

eta: this thread reminds me of an american news channel arguing a u.s. president is secretly from a foreign country and a member of a different religion than he claims.
__________________


The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you. - David Foster Wallace

Last edited by NorthAlabama : 07-16-2014 at 05:45 PM.
NorthAlabama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:39 PM   #157
CloudAtlas
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darichard View Post
I went to de-activate my old TiVO. [...] The nice person on chat would not help me. [...] He politely told me he could not help me and that I needed to call.
@Darichard,

TiVo wants you to call on the phone to verify you are the actual user before deactivating a device. It's a security thing. Do you *really* want TiVo (or any other company) to trust a "chat" via the internet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darichard View Post
So I call and get a very nice woman to help me.
She starting [...]

She said "ok" and proceeded to help me.
She informed me that I would be billed for the HD through the end of the month. I was calling on the 2nd of the month.
She told me that's their policy. Hmmmm...

She was completely unemphatic.
She was polite, but really didn't care. When I told her this was likely going to result in me returning my Roamio,
she seemed equally unconcerned.

What the heck is going on with
TiVO. It's not the money that's the issue for me. It could be $2 or it could be $50. What kind of
idiotic company thinks it's reasonable to charge a customer for service they can't possibly use?
@Darichard,

I reformatted for emphasis. The customer service rep above *she works* for TiVo but just because she says something doesn't mean it's TiVo policy. Ever notice customer service reps and sales reps always have an answer for any and all questions? Even ones they are clearly not qualified to answer? And because of this they are very often wrong. Have you ever been wrong at work? Of course. So might she.

So you say "Thank you." hang up and call back and get another customer service rep. Be polite and explain in as few words as possible what you want them to do for you and why. I may call back the next day and even ask for a manager if I'm getting nowhere..

Sooner or later someone in customer service will give you what you want as long as it's reasonable. You just have to explain that you wanted to replace your TiVO HD with the new Roamio and instead of one transaction you did it in two transactions. I'm assuming the monthly fee you were paying on the HD is being moved to the Roamio.

One service rep does not a company make. If that were true no company would be worth your business.
CloudAtlas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:41 PM   #158
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Collins View Post
........
So many aspersions have been cast on Darichard's character and motives in this thread I can't help but comment that if I were a newcomer to this site, I would likely have to think twice about visiting again, and I sure wouldn't want to post anything. Hmm...I guess TiVo may not be the only organization that has characteristics that drive people away.
But hopefully a newcomer would view some of the other threads here, the vast majority of which are, for the most part, constructive and helpful.

Then the question arises: What was different about **this** thread that led to the casting of aspersions you mention? Think about it ......

Are you aware of other significant forums where there **never** is any flaming or casting of aspersions, at least by a few of the members?

Let's suppose a forum member thinks that what another member posts is stupid and illogical. So in a post they say "what you said is stupid and illogical" (and presumably they say why they believe that). Is that casting an aspersion? Or is it just talking frankly? Keep in mind they have not said "you are stupid and illogical", just "what you said is stupid and illogical".
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:52 PM   #159
Darichard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudAtlas View Post
You just have to explain that you wanted to replace your TiVO HD with the new Roamio and instead of one transaction you did it in two transactions. I'm assuming the monthly fee you were paying on the HD is being moved to the Roamio.
Not sure why would would assume that. I'm paying for service on my Roamio and my dead HD for a month.
Darichard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 05:56 PM   #160
Darichard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudAtlas View Post
TiVo wants you to call on the phone to verify you are the actual user before deactivating a device. It's a security thing. Do you *really* want TiVo (or any other company) to trust a "chat" via the internet?
How does talking to me help to verify my identity vs. collecting the same information online? I suspect TiVo wants to talk to people who are cancelling so they can try to talk them out of doing so. I could be wrong.

I moved recently. I set up and cancelled my electric and water service without talking to anybody. I moved a huge amount of money between two bank accounts without talking to anybody. I do most of my transactions electronically. TiVo having you call them has nothing to do with security.

Last edited by Darichard : 07-16-2014 at 06:09 PM.
Darichard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 06:19 PM   #161
Diana Collins
Registered User
 
Diana Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New York City Suburbs
Posts: 1,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
But hopefully a newcomer would view some of the other threads here, the vast majority of which are, for the most part, constructive and helpful...
Perhaps...I hope so.

This probably doesn't belong in this thread, but you asked a question, and I feel compelled to answer it. As you can see by my profile, I have been a member here a very long time. I first joined when we got our first DirecTiVo (a series 1) after having had a standalone TiVo attached to a DirecTV STB for about a year. When we upgraded to HD, there was no HD option from TiVo yet so we converted to DirecTV DVRs. So, I have not been active here for several years (since we deactivated our last DirecTiVo about 3 or 4 years ago). Recently we switched to Verizon FiOS and so are back to being a TiVo family. I have been active here again for about a month.

Now, to your question regarding what was different about this post...

Unfortunately, I have, in the month I have been back, seen several cases of posts getting EXACTLY the same results we have seen here. If someone dares to criticize TiVo in almost anyway, they are attacked. The only difference is that Darichard has come back, time and again, to defend himself. Most others simple walk away. I myself have been blasted in a thread. IMO the "TiVo Community" has shrunk to the point that it is dominated by the fanboys. In other forums I have participated in (such as DBSTalk) there are, of course, the same sorts of ardent supporters that defend their favored provider, as well as a core of equally ardent critics. The difference is that at those other sites there are a sizable group of impartial members that will productively engage in conversation, try to understand and help the original poster, rather than constantly tell him or her that they are wrong. IMO, TiVo Community is no longer the place I remember.

Do I agree that Darichard should get a refund? No, I don't. The terms of TiVo monthly service are clearly spelled out, and TiVo has every right to run their company as they see fit. Do I understand his frustration and his feeling ill treated? Yes, I do. I stayed out of this discussion up until the last day or so because I expected it to peter out on its own. But Darichard has not walked away, and I just couldn't stand by any longer watching people tell him he was wrong for voicing his opinion that TiVo's policy, and apparent inflexibility for a long time customer, in a word, stinks. I think it stinks too. IMO it is yet another reason to shun monthly service like the plague.
__________________
Current Setup: 2 Roamio Pros, 5 Minis on FiOS (all with lifetime)

Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006
Diana Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 06:21 PM   #162
Diana Collins
Registered User
 
Diana Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New York City Suburbs
Posts: 1,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darichard View Post
...I suspect TiVo wants to talk to people who are cancelling so they can try to talk them out of doing so...
This.

They don't worry about security when you are spending money, only when you want to stop spending it.
__________________
Current Setup: 2 Roamio Pros, 5 Minis on FiOS (all with lifetime)

Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006
Diana Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 06:34 PM   #163
moedaman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Collins View Post

Unfortunately, I have, in the month I have been back, seen several cases of posts getting EXACTLY the same results we have seen here. If someone dares to criticize TiVo in almost anyway, they are attacked. The only difference is that Darichard has come back, time and again, to defend himself. Most others simple walk away. I myself have been blasted in a thread. IMO the "TiVo Community" has shrunk to the point that it is dominated by the fanboys. In other forums I have participated in (such as DBSTalk) there are, of course, the same sorts of ardent supporters that defend their favored provider, as well as a core of equally ardent critics. The difference is that at those other sites there are a sizable group of impartial members that will productively engage in conversation, try to understand and help the original poster, rather than constantly tell him or her that they are wrong. IMO, TiVo Community is no longer the place I remember.
When I subscribed to Dish, I used to visit DBSTalk. The Tivo forums do have one advantage over them. And that is, some of the biggest fanboys are also forum moderators. If you were in the Dish forum and had a complaint about Dish, some moderators would "lead the charge" against you. Same thing in the DirecTV forums. You could never win an argument against some of the diehards because you would get moderated for going too far. At least here the moderators exhibit non-bias behavior.
moedaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 07:58 PM   #164
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darichard View Post
........ It's not the money that's the issue for me. It could be $2 or it could be $50. What kind of idiotic company thinks it's reasonable to charge a customer for service they can't possibly use? If I hadn't activated a new TiVo I could almost, maybe, kinda see their point. And I told her this.

The Roamio looks like a very nice device. I've enjoyed every TiVo I've ever had. I just don't think this is a company I want to do business with. I'll be exercising my 30-day return policy on the service and will return my device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Collins View Post
.......
Unfortunately, I have, in the month I have been back, seen several cases of posts getting EXACTLY the same results we have seen here. If someone dares to criticize TiVo in almost anyway, they are attacked. The only difference is that Darichard has come back, time and again, to defend himself. Most others simple walk away. I myself have been blasted in a thread. IMO the "TiVo Community" has shrunk to the point that it is dominated by the fanboys. In other forums I have participated in (such as DBSTalk) there are, of course, the same sorts of ardent supporters that defend their favored provider, as well as a core of equally ardent critics. The difference is that at those other sites there are a sizable group of impartial members that will productively engage in conversation, try to understand and help the original poster, rather than constantly tell him or her that they are wrong. IMO, TiVo Community is no longer the place I remember.
........
I'm not sure what your definition of a "sizable group" is but there is a lot of help being provided on this forum, particularly when a poster asks for help rather than just complains and (IMO) whines like this OP did.

Although many of us (who provide help on many occasions) might agree that Tivo's billing policies and support are flawed, I think we were mainly reacting to the OP cutting off his nose to spite his face, i.e., denying himself the benefits of owning a Roamio because of what seems to us like a minor complaint. He's entitled to have that principle and let it dominate his decisions but I think our disapproval of that is not an unreasonable reaction, and is not an example of a generally deplorable behavior on this forum. There may be other threads that do comprise such examples but as I pointed out before they are small in number compared to good threads.
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 08:33 PM   #165
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyb359 View Post
Most of the companies that refund partial months don't really. They pro rate the last month when they send you the bill because they have you pay after you use it. Those companies where you pay in advance don't pro rate and give refunds. For example Netflix, Amazon Prime, prepaid carriers and Tivo.
I know Netflix does not give refunds, but if you do cancel you do get till the end of your pre-pay to use the service, each co has their own set of T&C so if one wants to use any co. and cares about what T&C that co. is using, read them. For me, if the money amount is small I don't take the time to read the T&C, I just find out what they are when I have to make a change, but if was leasing a car I sure would do the reading of the T&C on the lease.

As to extortion, in no way did the OP try to extort TiVo into giving him what he wanted, if I told Best Buy that I will not purchase this HDTV unless they gave my this great video camera for free, it would Best Buy decision as to what they wanted to do, no extortion, just me negotiating with Best Buy.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 09:20 PM   #166
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,272
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
I'm not sure what your definition of a "sizable group" is but there is a lot of help being provided on this forum, particularly when a poster asks for help rather than just complains and (IMO) whines like this OP did.

Although many of us (who provide help on many occasions) might agree that Tivo's billing policies and support are flawed, I think we were mainly reacting to the OP cutting off his nose to spite his face, i.e., denying himself the benefits of owning a Roamio because of what seems to us like a minor complaint. He's entitled to have that principle and let it dominate his decisions but I think our disapproval of that is not an unreasonable reaction, and is not an example of a generally deplorable behavior on this forum. There may be other threads that do comprise such examples but as I pointed out before they are small in number compared to good threads.
This. And I don't own a Tivo.

It's nothing to do with dumping Tivo. It's the reason. It comes across as petty.

Last edited by trip1eX : 07-16-2014 at 09:43 PM.
trip1eX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 09:38 PM   #167
Diana Collins
Registered User
 
Diana Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New York City Suburbs
Posts: 1,411
Quote:
Originally Posted by moedaman View Post
When I subscribed to Dish, I used to visit DBSTalk. The Tivo forums do have one advantage over them. And that is, some of the biggest fanboys are also forum moderators. If you were in the Dish forum and had a complaint about Dish, some moderators would "lead the charge" against you. Same thing in the DirecTV forums. You could never win an argument against some of the diehards because you would get moderated for going too far. At least here the moderators exhibit non-bias behavior.
I haven't been a Dish customer since 2001 and so had no real reason to visit the Dish Network part of DBSTalk. There are about 3 or 4 DirecTV customers for every Dish customer on that forum, so if I wanted Dish info, I'd go to SatelliteGuys (where the Dish/DirecTv ratio is the inverse of DBSTalk). In any event, my experience has been that the DBSTalk moderators (in the DirecTV forums at least) are very proactive in reminding people that they should discuss the topic, not each other. This is, IMO, where this thread went wrong...too many posts were focused on the OP's opinions and actions rather than on the policy he was bringing up.

I was a moderator on the original satellite TV forum (DBSDish) and the owner of DBSForums for several years. I understand the tightrope moderators walk in trying to balance the need to keep threads on topic, and not wanted to stifle discussion. It is never easy. But I will say that I have never, in the 17 years I have been involved with Internet forums, been blasted the way I was here for a innocuous comment (it was so extreme I got a couple of PMs from other users apologizing for the member that blasted me - really the only reason I am still here).

There is no question that there is an abundance of information here...when the Verizon installer couldn't get my Cablecards paired to my Roamios it was information I found through a search here that allowed me to give him input that got them paired. But honestly, I have to say that in the short space of a month I have seen several cases of fanboys slamming people who criticize TiVo, members dismissing suggestions for new features or modifications of existing ones for no other reason than that they wouldn't use it (see the HDMI-CEC thread for example) and generally treating this place like a private club.

Maybe I'm just being sensitive, and perhaps most visitors here think everything is just fine. But my experience so far is such that I think twice or even thrice before posting anything here, and reread and edit every post so as to be careful not to raise the ire of the Fanboys. Many times I have written responses and then decided not to post, because I know the result will be unproductive.

In any event, I have said my piece about this thread and TC in general, so I'll be on my way.
__________________
Current Setup: 2 Roamio Pros, 5 Minis on FiOS (all with lifetime)

Moderator, DBSDish.com 1999-2000
Co-Founder and Administrator, DBSForums.com 2000-2006
Diana Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 10:59 PM   #168
nooneuknow
TiVo User Since 2007
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
Posts: 2,933
Done with this thread.

I'm done with this thread. I can't even figure out why I followed it this far...
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
nooneuknow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 11:48 PM   #169
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I'm done with this thread. I can't even figure out why I followed it this far...
Masochism?


__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 12:52 AM   #170
Darichard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
...particularly when a poster asks for help rather than just complains and (IMO) whines like this OP did.

snip

the OP cutting off his nose to spite his face, i.e., denying himself the benefits of owning a Roamio because of what seems to us like a minor complaint. He's entitled to have that principle and let it dominate his decisions but I think our disapproval of that is not an unreasonable reaction
So to be clear, the reaction here is because most of you think I'm a whiner or because I'm doing myself a disservice? Another person who is concerned for my well being and doesn't want me to be without a TiVo.
Darichard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 07:03 AM   #171
mschnebly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grakthis View Post
It's not drama, it's semantics. If semantics don't matter to you, then by all means, don't engage in the discussion.
You must have been beaten a lot in your high school debate team. Do you badger everyone in your life like this or only on the TiVo forum? I bet you're a real blast at parties.
mschnebly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 07:57 AM   #172
jrtroo
User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,523
No. You claim to have told the CSR that you will return your new box considering the policy to charge you according to the agreement. Later, you claim to not have demanded $10 in a service refund. But, the appearance is that IF the CSR were to have waived the charge you would have kept the box. Is that not the case? OR, you were "done" with Tivo just because the policy in the agreement existed at all?

So, to me and others, your arguments appear on both sides of the fence.
__________________
TiVo Owner
jrtroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 08:40 AM   #173
Darichard
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrtroo View Post
No. You claim to have told the CSR that you will return your new box considering the policy to charge you according to the agreement. Later, you claim to not have demanded $10 in a service refund. But, the appearance is that IF the CSR were to have waived the charge you would have kept the box. Is that not the case? OR, you were "done" with Tivo just because the policy in the agreement existed at all?

So, to me and others, your arguments appear on both sides of the fence.
Both are true. I did tell her I was likely returning the box. I never said nor implied "unless you refund my money." It's a policy and/or customer service issue for me.

I could be wrong here, but you and others seem to be having a hard time with me putting principles first. The "cutting off your nose..." comments are effectively saying "but you're losing something!" I'm well aware of that. TiVo has always been a awesome product. Not perfect, but way ahead of everybody else. As a tech guy and a software engineer I marvel at how they make the complex look so simple. It's a role-model product for usability.
Darichard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 08:47 AM   #174
Grakthis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthAlabama View Post
no, quite the contrary. i'm saying that the original post is being misrepresented by the accusers in its entirety, in an effort to forward some agenda.

the facts don't legitimately support "extortion" or "threats", so there can be no semantics over those characterizations.

What agenda do I have? I've already supported the OPs right to his position, I'm sympathetic to his complaint, I've agreed it's not an ideal business practice... so what is my agenda? My only agenda is "be honest to the English language and what words mean."

The facts absolutely, unquestionably, support the actual definition of threats and extortion. Extortion carries a lot of baggage, but that baggage is connotational, not denotational. And the correct thing to do when confronted with those denotations is go "Ok, well, I guess technically it is, but you and I both know that doesn't make it wrong." And then we'd all go "sure." And that would be the end of it.

But you can't argue against the definitions of those words. That's the wrong way to approach a semantic problem where connotation and denotation don't line up the way you want to. Arguing the meanings of the words just makes you wrong AGAIN.

Also, denying what 'semantics' means does too. So don't do that either.
Grakthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 08:48 AM   #175
Grakthis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Collins View Post
Forgive me (and this may get me blasted) but...

Who the heck are you, or the other members of this forum, to question why someone holds a principle as important or not?

If you come into a thread to discuss how mad you are about a principle, you have opened the door to people asking you about your principle.

This notion that people have a "right" to their opinions and views and we are all wrong to question those opinions and views is probably the most asinine thing to come out of the internet era. I usually hear it from old people. So I'm going to assume you're old.
Grakthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 08:49 AM   #176
Grakthis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1eX View Post
good examples. Plus doesn't Tivo load guide data a few weeks in advance? I would think your Tivo could then still record for another 2 weeks after you cancel. I haven't had Tivo in years but they don't have to phone home on a daily or even weekly basis as far as I remember.
Yeah, you can unplug your TiVo and it keeps running for a few weeks. I don't remember how long.
Grakthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 08:51 AM   #177
Grakthis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
As to extortion, in no way did the OP try to extort TiVo into giving him what he wanted, if I told Best Buy that I will not purchase this HDTV unless they gave my this great video camera for free, it would Best Buy decision as to what they wanted to do, no extortion, just me negotiating with Best Buy.
You're right. That's not extortion, because you haven't bought the Camera yet.

If you bought the camera, then demanded they give you a refund on the price of the camera as part of the purchase of the TV, or else you're going to return the camera, then that is. The key difference is the RETURN of an already completed exchange.

"It would be a shame if something happened to this purchase I already made."
Grakthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 08:54 AM   #178
Grakthis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnebly View Post
You must have been beaten a lot in your high school debate team. Do you badger everyone in your life like this or only on the TiVo forum? I bet you're a real blast at parties.

"Oh yeah, well, I bet you were a nerd in high school, snort snort snort"

Look how cowed I am! You've shamed me with your brilliant insults!

edit: man, this is too many posts in a row, but what are you gonna do? People responded to me.
Grakthis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 09:05 AM   #179
NorthAlabama
tabasco rules
 
NorthAlabama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: rocket city, al
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grakthis View Post
What agenda do I have? I've already supported the OPs right to his position, I'm sympathetic to his complaint, I've agreed it's not an ideal business practice... so what is my agenda? My only agenda is "be honest to the English language and what words mean."

The facts absolutely, unquestionably, support the actual definition of threats and extortion. Extortion carries a lot of baggage, but that baggage is connotational, not denotational. And the correct thing to do when confronted with those denotations is go "Ok, well, I guess technically it is, but you and I both know that doesn't make it wrong." And then we'd all go "sure." And that would be the end of it.

But you can't argue against the definitions of those words. That's the wrong way to approach a semantic problem where connotation and denotation don't line up the way you want to. Arguing the meanings of the words just makes you wrong AGAIN.

Also, denying what 'semantics' means does too. So don't do that either.
is that a threat? oh, and semantics...
__________________


The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you. - David Foster Wallace

Last edited by NorthAlabama : 07-17-2014 at 10:23 AM.
NorthAlabama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 09:25 AM   #180
jrtroo
User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darichard View Post
Both are true.
You are still not being clear here. Which "both" do you mean? My question was an either/or, "both" does not make sense on the surface, thus your statements still straddle both sides of the fence. So, you were going to keep the new box with a waived fee AND were "done" with Tivo due to the existence of the billing policy in the T&Cs?

I don't care, really, and did not put any such valuation in my message. You seem confused of what the others are saying. I'm simply explaining why your discussion points are confusing and are being interpreted in so many different ways by others.
__________________
TiVo Owner

Last edited by jrtroo : 07-17-2014 at 11:59 AM.
jrtroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:51 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |