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Old 07-05-2014, 05:47 AM   #31
Chris Gerhard
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Please enlighten me as to the difference.
I don't know if the OP will be back to comment but I wondered about the claim:
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and that de-activation is not the same as cancelling
You can cancel something that was never activated and de-activation is a specific form of cancellation, only applicable to services that were activated.

Assume you ordered a TiVo, changed your mind before it was shipped, you must cancel that, not de-activate the TiVo, it was never activated in the first place. A situation like the OP faced, a TiVo in service that he no longer wanted to use, he wanted that de-activated, something completely different.
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Old 07-05-2014, 06:57 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
I don't know if the OP will be back to comment but I wondered about the claim: You can cancel something that was never activated and de-activation is a specific form of cancellation, only applicable to services that were activated.

Assume you ordered a TiVo, changed your mind before it was shipped, you must cancel that, not de-activate the TiVo, it was never activated in the first place. A situation like the OP faced, a TiVo in service that he no longer wanted to use, he wanted that de-activated, something completely different.
Yes, but de-activating the hardware does not imply cancelling the service - they are separate things. For example, you can de-activate the old TiVo hardware and then transfer the monthly service to new TiVo hardware you are activating (and can do this transfer on-line, or at least you used to - I haven't checked lately).

I have several service contracts with TiVo, a couple dating back to 2001. The original hardware is long gone, sometimes transferred twice.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:35 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
Yes, but de-activating the hardware does not imply cancelling the service - they are separate things. For example, you can de-activate the old TiVo hardware and then transfer the monthly service to new TiVo hardware you are activating (and can do this transfer on-line, or at least you used to - I haven't checked lately).

I have several service contracts with TiVo, a couple dating back to 2001. The original hardware is long gone, sometimes transferred twice.
With monthly TiVo service de-activation and cancel may be a good description, move the monthly to another TiVo you have de-activation a TiVo unit, cancel your monthly and you now are using one less TiVo. With Lifetime service non of this matters.
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
Yes, but de-activating the hardware does not imply cancelling the service - they are separate things. For example, you can de-activate the old TiVo hardware and then transfer the monthly service to new TiVo hardware you are activating (and can do this transfer on-line, or at least you used to - I haven't checked lately).

I have several service contracts with TiVo, a couple dating back to 2001. The original hardware is long gone, sometimes transferred twice.
Well, since all TiVo service is associated with the box, it could be said that "deactivating" a box is synonymous with "canceling" service on that box. The service contract on a box is not the same as the person's account.
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Old 07-05-2014, 01:08 PM   #35
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Well, since all TiVo service is associated with the box, it could be said that "deactivating" a box is synonymous with "canceling" service on that box. The service contract on a box is not the same as the person's account.
It is the same but some people want to make a distinction between the two words, I canceled TiVo A so now I have one less TiVo, I de-activated TiVo A by moving the monthly to TiVo B, in both cases the TiVo A has no service, but you do get into people ideas about the pro-rate of the service cost (that TiVo does not do) as de-activated TiVo A has no pro-rate issue as the service goes directly to TiVo B.
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:17 PM   #36
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link?
http://support.mytivo.com.au/index.p...l&cat=15&id=77
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:28 PM   #37
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I don't know if the OP will be back to comment but I wondered about the claim: You can cancel something that was never activated and de-activation is a specific form of cancellation, only applicable to services that were activated.

Assume you ordered a TiVo, changed your mind before it was shipped, you must cancel that, not de-activate the TiVo, it was never activated in the first place. A situation like the OP faced, a TiVo in service that he no longer wanted to use, he wanted that de-activated, something completely different.
Wow, you guys must be really unhappy with me to be parsing my message down to the word. It's like you're going to make me defend every point. I'm getting crap for claiming I've been a loyal TiVo customer? All I expected was to not have to pay for service for a TiVo that was dead, and that could very well have been dead for over a month. It's not like they don't have a way to easily check this I don't think that's unreasonable. You guys clearly do. So be it.

De-activation vs. cancelling: the difference to me is "I'm done - cancel everything and stop billing me" vs. "I have a device for which I'd like to stop service."

If you have 3 cable boxes and return one, is that cancelling your service?

And assuming the "good customer" comment was targeted at me, why would you think I'm not a good customer? I buy the products, I pay my bill, and I never call them.
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:30 PM   #38
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You posted a link relevant to Australia users. It is not uncommon for different procedures to apply to customers of different legal entities...so even though owned by TiVo, I would never assume that the same procedure applies in the states as it does to Australian customers.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:00 PM   #39
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:52 PM   #40
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Wow, you guys must be really unhappy with me to be parsing my message down to the word. It's like you're going to make me defend every point. I'm getting crap for claiming I've been a loyal TiVo customer? All I expected was to not have to pay for service for a TiVo that was dead, and that could very well have been dead for over a month. It's not like they don't have a way to easily check this I don't think that's unreasonable. You guys clearly do. So be it.

De-activation vs. cancelling: the difference to me is "I'm done - cancel everything and stop billing me" vs. "I have a device for which I'd like to stop service."

If you have 3 cable boxes and return one, is that cancelling your service?

And assuming the "good customer" comment was targeted at me, why would you think I'm not a good customer? I buy the products, I pay my bill, and I never call them.
You words are confusing because in TiVos case each TiVo unit stands on its own, you can't cancel all your TiVo boxes by calling TiVo and just telling them to cancel all your TiVos, it must be done one TiVo at a time, the TiVo CSR may do that for you on the single phone call, but you are talking about monthly service as you can't stop Lifetime Service on any TiVo (except within the first 30 days or an authorize TiVo exchange). All TiVo user are good TiVo customers, so the word loyal has no meaning when it comes to TiVo, all TiVo customers get what their are paying for, monthly or Lifetime, so again loyal customer means nothing. With cable it's a more total service that comes to your home via a cable, when one cancels their cable service the cable co comes and traps your cable line or if all the ch are scrambled they just turn off all your cable boxes (and or cable cards), TiVo is just a different type of service than cable, as most cable co will pro-rate your charges from the day you cancel, TiVo does not.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:25 PM   #41
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don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya
Where have I heard that one before?......
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:09 PM   #42
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All TiVo user are good TiVo customers, so the word loyal has no meaning when it comes to TiVo, all TiVo customers get what their are paying for, monthly or Lifetime, so again loyal customer means nothing.
It means nothing? When DirecTV stopped supporting TiVo as their DVR guess what I did? I ditched DirecTV and got cable so I could still have a TiVO. The "loyal" work seems to be irksome to people for some reason. Perhaps the work "faithful" or "committed" would be better? Tell me what word you would use to describe somebody who stayed with TiVo for 13 years?

If I recall Tivo peaked at ~4M retail subscribers. Last year it was below 1M. (This could be US only - somebody pls correct me if needed.) For a company with shrinking market share in a a market that's growing like crazy (worldwide) I would expect retention to be a priority.
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:11 PM   #43
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You posted a link relevant to Australia users. It is not uncommon for different procedures to apply to customers of different legal entities...so even though owned by TiVo, I would never assume that the same procedure applies in the states as it does to Australian customers.
Amazing that I never noticed that it said Australia right there. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Old 07-07-2014, 04:36 PM   #44
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Tell me what word you would use to describe somebody who stayed with TiVo for 13 years?
Such a person would be a "subscriber" - nothing more.


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Old 07-07-2014, 05:04 PM   #45
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.......... All TiVo user are good TiVo customers, so the word loyal has no meaning when it comes to TiVo, all TiVo customers get what their are paying for, monthly or Lifetime, so again loyal customer means nothing. With cable it's a more total service that comes to your home via a cable, when one cancels their cable service the cable co comes and traps your cable line or if all the ch are scrambled they just turn off all your cable boxes (and or cable cards), TiVo is just a different type of service than cable, as most cable co will pro-rate your charges from the day you cancel, TiVo does not.
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It means nothing? When DirecTV stopped supporting TiVo as their DVR guess what I did? I ditched DirecTV and got cable so I could still have a TiVO. The "loyal" work seems to be irksome to people for some reason. Perhaps the work "faithful" or "committed" would be better? Tell me what word you would use to describe somebody who stayed with TiVo for 13 years?
I would use "satisfied for 13 years". Surely you didn't use TiVo all those years just as a favor did you? Do you have a relative who owns TiVo stock or is on the Board or in top management? Is TiVo a mom-and-pop operation just down the street so you wanted to support the local folks you know and love?

The concept of loyalty applied to business entities that we have no personal relationship with is ambiguous at best. To expect most businesses you deal with to value your loyalty is unrealistic although some of them may choose to do so for their own purposes.
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If I recall Tivo peaked at ~4M retail subscribers. Last year it was below 1M. (This could be US only - somebody pls correct me if needed.) For a company with shrinking market share in a a market that's growing like crazy (worldwide) I would expect retention to be a priority.
The stand-alone DVR business is growing like crazy? No it's been stifled by CableCARD and Tuning Adapters combined with poor support for same by the Cable Cos. TiVo has been forced to look in other directions for business potential.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:12 PM   #46
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TiVo makes no sense without Lifetime. And Lifetime units are far cheaper, and don't have problems with billing.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:42 PM   #47
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The concept of loyalty applied to business entities that we have no personal relationship with is ambiguous at best. To expect most businesses you deal with to value your loyalty is unrealistic although some of them may choose to do so for their own purposes.
No idea why you think that. Cable, satellite companies, and many other subscription-based businesses value long term customers. So do some hardware companies. Apple is probably the best example of this. People wait in line overnight to get products that are not in short supply. Why is that?

Even if you keep your customer numbers flat, customer turnover costs money. I work for a large tech company that sells products (mostly to OEMs) and services to consumers. I suspect you guys want to think of me as somebody who is upset about losing $13 and doesn't understand business. I get business and understand the concept of customer affinity.

Short story: A couple of years ago two of my kids broke their iPod Touch devices. (Skipping that part to keep this short.) I went to the Apple store with the old devices to see what they could do. The damage wasn't covered by Apple Care (or whatever it's called). The guy decided to sell me a refurb one with something extra (don't recall what) and I newer upgraded iPod touch for the price of a refurb. Why? Because they wanted to keep my business and not have me replace them with other devices. I had no sense of entitlement and didn't demand anything. I didn't even ask for anything. They had no obligation to do anything for me.

I don't particularly like Apple products and don't use them myself. But that's a company I'll continue to do business with. That's an example of getting loyalty and affinity.

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The stand-alone DVR business is growing like crazy? No it's been stifled by CableCARD and Tuning Adapters combined with poor support for same by the Cable Cos. TiVo has been forced to look in other directions for business potential.
I meant the cable market, not specifically the DVR market. I haven't checked those numbers. My point was that TV service is is a growth market globally.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:35 PM   #48
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Apple is probably the best example of this. People wait in line overnight to get products that are not in short supply. Why is that?

...

Short story: A couple of years ago two of my kids broke their iPod Touch devices. (Skipping that part to keep this short.) I went to the Apple store with the old devices to see what they could do. The damage wasn't covered by Apple Care (or whatever it's called). The guy decided to sell me a refurb one with something extra (don't recall what) and I newer upgraded iPod touch for the price of a refurb. Why? Because they wanted to keep my business and not have me replace them with other devices. I had no sense of entitlement and didn't demand anything. I didn't even ask for anything. They had no obligation to do anything for me.

I don't particularly like Apple products and don't use them myself. But that's a company I'll continue to do business with. That's an example of getting loyalty and affinity.
Apple is sometimes really good. I have had extremely mixed experiences, and as a result of Apple flat out refusing to stand behind their defective Early 2011 Macbook Pro's, I am moving away from all Apple devices other than the iPad, although to be fair, I was thinking about doing that anyways due to the price premium over PCs getting a lot larger over the past 5 years, and the form factors available.

Apple flat-out refused to repair my Macbook Pro free of charge when it was their known defective logic board that caused it to fail. I should have sued them, but I had better things to do than to figure out how and spend a lot of time and money suing them for $300, even though it would have been the right and just thing to do.

Then, Apple refused to replace my MBP battery after it completely failed after 196 load cycles. Although normally I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to cover consumables like batteries, Apple specifically made the claim that the MBP batteries would retain 80% charge capacity at 1000 cycles. I believe that they made a stupid and erroneous statement, as I don't think any battery chemistry and controller in the world can guarantee performance like that over a wide variety of usage patterns, but they made a hard, factual statement, and refused to stand behind it. Here also, it was impractical to sue them for a $100 battery, although it would have been the right and just thing to do.

I am mostly done with Apple. I'm not paying a huge price premium for products that they aren't going to stand behind. If I'm going to have a computer that the manufacturer won't stand behind, then I'll get a cheaper Windows machine that has more features, or I'll build a desktop as my main machine and then I can replace parts myself.

Quote:
I meant the cable market, not specifically the DVR market. I haven't checked those numbers. My point was that TV service is is a growth market globally.
The DVR market has grown massively over the past 8-10 years. 10 years ago, it was a small niche, today it is a major differentiator between MSOs. It's just that relatively few of those DVRs are retail devices like TiVos.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:38 PM   #49
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The Summer update is rolling for those who were first on the priority signup list

Anybody else find it amusing that a thread titled "Done with TiVo", which begins with a post that clearly states the OP is done with the company, just keeps going, and going...

I don't see anybody saying "Please stay" or "Please reconsider", etc.

Heck, I don't even see much pointing out of the pro's of having a subscribed TiVo.

I spotted a few other posts in other threads about people bailing because TiVo wouldn't give them $99 lifetime on an old Premiere. Nobody is even saying anything to them, and <poof> there goes a TiVo sub.

It's like people who talk about suicide... The ones that really do it just do it and might leave a note. The ones that just keep talking about it just keep living to talk about it more, and bask in all the attention they are getting...

BTW: The Summer update is rolling for those who were first on the priority signup list. I've never seen any TiVo operate so fast.

TiVo finally got something right: Instead of pumping everybody up for some big deal update, only to underwhelm us, they surprised most everybody I've seen report in so far.

Of course, still no android streaming, and no amazon prime. But, I don't want or need those things.

I'm still trying to find the first flaw, and I'm only finding more changes that I actually like, and many fixes and improvements.

I guess the OP wouldn't care, though. They are "done with TiVo", so I don;t know why we are wasting perfectly good keystrokes on a deserter.
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:27 PM   #50
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It means nothing? When DirecTV stopped supporting TiVo as their DVR guess what I did? I ditched DirecTV and got cable so I could still have a TiVO. The "loyal" work seems to be irksome to people for some reason. Perhaps the work "faithful" or "committed" would be better? Tell me what word you would use to describe somebody who stayed with TiVo for 13 years?

If I recall Tivo peaked at ~4M retail subscribers. Last year it was below 1M. (This could be US only - somebody pls correct me if needed.) For a company with shrinking market share in a a market that's growing like crazy (worldwide) I would expect retention to be a priority.
I assume you stayed with TiVo for 13 years as I did because I though it was the best DVR solution for me and I assume you also, you might stay with you wife out of a sense of loyalty but you stayed with TiVo because you though is was the best DVR alternative for you. If you though the another DVR was much better, say from your cable co., and stayed with TiVo only because you wanted to be, as you said above faithful, loyal to TiVo I will take back what I said.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:04 AM   #51
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If you have 3 cable boxes and return one, is that cancelling your service?
Yes, that would be cancelling your service on that cable box only or deactivating service on that cable box only, either would be fine with me. When I walk up to a cable company customer service rep window, handing a cable box to that person and getting a receipt for that return, I expect that particular box to no longer be on my bill. If it is on my bill, I am going to call and refer to the return receipt and cancel the service on that box a second time, retroactive to the return date.

I am assuming of course there is no contractual commitment on the box beyond the date of return. If there is, the cancellation may result in an early cancellation fee.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:37 AM   #52
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If you have 3 cable boxes and return one, is that cancelling your service?
Absolutely. You may notice in the user agreement that YOU agreed to, TiVo talks about both cancelling your account (all boxes) and cancelling service (one box).
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:52 AM   #53
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I assume you stayed with TiVo for 13 years as I did because I though it was the best DVR solution for me and I assume you also, you might stay with you wife out of a sense of loyalty but you stayed with TiVo because you though is was the best DVR alternative for you. If you though the another DVR was much better, say from your cable co., and stayed with TiVo only because you wanted to be, as you said above faithful, loyal to TiVo I will take back what I said.
No question I stayed with TiVo because I liked the product. As i said, the work "loyal" seems to be getting peoples panties in a knot. I wish I has used a different one.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:54 AM   #54
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Anybody else find it amusing that a thread titled "Done with TiVo", which begins with a post that clearly states the OP is done with the company, just keeps going, and going...
I'm being criticized for engaging in a dialog(?). Ummm... ok. No doubt if I didn't you'd criticize me for flaming TiVo and then leaving. I'm listening, admitting when I made mistakes, and trying my best see all sides and be reasonable.

I'll point out that some of you seem to be taking this a little personally. Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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Old 07-08-2014, 09:01 AM   #55
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Apple flat-out refused to repair my Macbook Pro free of charge when it was their known defective logic board that caused it to fail.
Sorry to hear this. I too would be done with them given the condition. An editorial comment: I never understood the appeal of Apple PCs. Until recently I could see a MacBook, but now other laptops have more than caught up (imo). Their other PCs are way overpriced relative to others. And the ironic thing to me is that it seems like most people who run install Windows anyway. However they are generally much nicer looking boxes.

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I like to think my company would have done the right thing in this situation.
Then, Apple refused to replace my MBP battery after it completely failed after 196 load cycles. Although normally I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to cover consumables like batteries, Apple specifically made the claim that the MBP batteries would retain 80% charge capacity at 1000 cycles. I believe that they made a stupid and erroneous statement, as I don't think any battery chemistry and controller in the world can guarantee performance like that over a wide variety of usage patterns, but they made a hard, factual statement, and refused to stand behind it. Here also, it was impractical to sue them for a $100 battery, although it would have been the right and just thing to do.
Same thing - I'd be done. fwiw, Lenovo has taken really good care of me with warranty issues. Once that's gone, don't expect much help from them.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:03 AM   #56
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..........
The concept of loyalty applied to business entities that we have no personal relationship with is ambiguous at best. To expect most businesses you deal with to value your loyalty is unrealistic although some of them may choose to do so for their own purposes.........
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Originally Posted by Darichard View Post
No idea why you think that. Cable, satellite companies, and many other subscription-based businesses value long term customers. So do some hardware companies. Apple is probably the best example of this. People wait in line overnight to get products that are not in short supply. Why is that?

Even if you keep your customer numbers flat, customer turnover costs money. I work for a large tech company that sells products (mostly to OEMs) and services to consumers. I suspect you guys want to think of me as somebody who is upset about losing $13 and doesn't understand business. I get business and understand the concept of customer affinity.

Short story: A couple of years ago two of my kids broke their iPod Touch devices. (Skipping that part to keep this short.) I went to the Apple store with the old devices to see what they could do. The damage wasn't covered by Apple Care (or whatever it's called). The guy decided to sell me a refurb one with something extra (don't recall what) and I newer upgraded iPod touch for the price of a refurb. Why? Because they wanted to keep my business and not have me replace them with other devices. I had no sense of entitlement and didn't demand anything. I didn't even ask for anything. They had no obligation to do anything for me.

I don't particularly like Apple products and don't use them myself. But that's a company I'll continue to do business with. That's an example of getting loyalty and affinity.
..........
Wanting to "keep your business" is not the same as valuing your loyalty. The iPhone is losing market share (to Android phones) despite the customer loyalty you claim exists, which I think is actually mostly sheep wanting to be part of the in crowd.

Good luck with your loyalty card. I'm still wondering why you thought it was important to play that card in your original post. It suggested to me and others here that you were making an emotional (and bogus) bid to get sympathy for your complaint. If you actually stuck with TiVo for 13 years out of loyalty (i.e., not because you thought it was the best choice for your DVR needs) then that was dumb.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:58 AM   #57
Darichard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
Wanting to "keep your business" is not the same as valuing your loyalty. The iPhone is losing market share (to Android phones) despite the customer loyalty you claim exists, which I think is actually mostly sheep wanting to be part of the in crowd.

Good luck with your loyalty card. I'm still wondering why you thought it was important to play that card in your original post. It suggested to me and others here that you were making an emotional (and bogus) bid to get sympathy for your complaint. If you actually stuck with TiVo for 13 years out of loyalty (i.e., not because you thought it was the best choice for your DVR needs) then that was dumb.
Good point: worldwide Apple is losing market share. I believe it's gaining in the US. My point was about loyalty to a product or brand.

For the 3rd time, I wish I has used a different word than "loyal." It seems to be emotionally charged. I mentioned it because I thought (and think) it's relevant. It's clear that you don't.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:11 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by SullyND View Post
Isn't that basically like a child having a temper tantrum?
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:13 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Anybody else find it amusing that a thread titled "Done with TiVo", which begins with a post that clearly states the OP is done with the company, just keeps going, and going...

I don't see anybody saying "Please stay" or "Please reconsider", etc.

Heck, I don't even see much pointing out of the pro's of having a subscribed TiVo.

I spotted a few other posts in other threads about people bailing because TiVo wouldn't give them $99 lifetime on an old Premiere. Nobody is even saying anything to them, and <poof> there goes a TiVo sub.

It's like people who talk about suicide... The ones that really do it just do it and might leave a note. The ones that just keep talking about it just keep living to talk about it more, and bask in all the attention they are getting...

BTW: The Summer update is rolling for those who were first on the priority signup list. I've never seen any TiVo operate so fast.

TiVo finally got something right: Instead of pumping everybody up for some big deal update, only to underwhelm us, they surprised most everybody I've seen report in so far.

Of course, still no android streaming, and no amazon prime. But, I don't want or need those things.

I'm still trying to find the first flaw, and I'm only finding more changes that I actually like, and many fixes and improvements.

I guess the OP wouldn't care, though. They are "done with TiVo", so I don;t know why we are wasting perfectly good keystrokes on a deserter.
how are the transfer rates? Are they back to normal speeds?
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:02 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
how are the transfer rates? Are they back to normal speeds?
I've seen reports of speeds getting as high at 170Mb/s, on the gigabit models, using ethernet. I don't recall what the speed record for them is.

So far it seems the sluggish UI performance and corruption of recordings is fixed.

Although, as it happens with every update, I'm seeing the snappiness of the UI return back to what it was, on my Roamio basics. Initially I was blown-back by the latency-free UI. I'll make a declaration on the transfer related issues after allowing a couple more days for things to settle back in.

Posting something is "fixed" or "better", only to have to take it back is a mistake I'm learning not to repeat. But, I'm cautiously optimistic at the moment.
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