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Old 08-04-2014, 02:00 PM   #361
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Do you really want that question answered ??
At this point I have no idea what happened.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:13 PM   #362
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At this point I have no idea what happened.
Does anyone?
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:20 PM   #363
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I suspect the written policy allows them to charge the full month, and the enforced policy is to issue refunds when it's rightfully questioned (like equipment issues), so they continue to receive the extra revenue as often as possible when it isn't questioned, or when it isn't an equipment issue.

eta: tivo could have easily built an automatic refund for partial month charges into the billing system, and chose not to do so for some reason.
Is this correct? TiVo's official policy is not to prorate, but will do so on a case by case basis? If so, THAT is Darichard's problem. He would prefer that it be done automatically as in NA's eta. For better or worse, THAT is why he says he will be leaving TiVo. I think that pretty much wraps it up unless Darichard has a further clarification.

In a nutshell: Darichard feels that an automatic refund should be given for partial month usage and that it should not have to be asked for or escalated in order to obtain it.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:28 PM   #364
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Is this correct? TiVo's official policy is not to prorate, but will do so on a case by case basis? If so, THAT is Darichard's problem. He would prefer that it be done automatically as in NA's eta. For better or worse, THAT is why he says he will be leaving TiVo. I think that pretty much wraps it up unless Darichard has a further clarification.

In a nutshell: Darichard feels that an automatic refund should be given for partial month usage and that it should not have to be asked for or escalated in order to obtain it.
Well yeah but he said that in the original post and it went on 13 pages.

Obviously the issue isn't why HE says he quit.

The issue was always why quit over that.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:44 PM   #365
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Preface: I've had a TiVos since 2001. I had a couple of original TiVo. I had two or three DirecTiVos. I had a TiVo HD. And perhaps another couple in there over the years. The point is, I'm a long time and loyal TiVo customer.

The other day my HD locked at the startup screen. Almost certainly a bad hard drive, or perhaps a bad power supply. I considered fixing it, then considered my time constraints, and decided to buy a Roamio. I figured I get the latest version and can fix my HD when I have more time.

The Roamio got here with no issue. I was first a little surprised when I went to activate it and I had a wait a few hours. I thought previous TiVo activations were immediate. But perhaps not. I wasn't in a hurry to watch TV, I just prefer to have things done. No worries.

A few hours later the TiVo was working just fine. I checked online and it said I activation was still pending. Again, no worries. I went to de-activate my old TiVO. I could not find a way to do so. I check the online help, which explains very clearly how to do so. But no, I could find it. Hmmmm....

The next day I started an online chat with TiVo. (Note that the chat instructions clearly state that you can't cancel your account via chat.) The nice person on chat would not help me. When I asked why, he told me that he can't de-activate via chat. He then told me is states this clearly. I told him it does not, and that de-activation is not the same as cancelling. He politely told me he could not help me and that I needed to call.

Now I'm annoyed. Don't tell me the chat instructions say what they don't say. I'm neither blind nor hard of reading. So I call and get a very nice woman to help me. She starting to go down her "Oh no... I'm sorry to hear you're de-activating" speech when I cut her off and told her my HD was dead.

She said "ok" and proceeded to help me. She informed me that I would be billed for the HD through the end of the month. I was calling on the 2nd of the month. She told me that's their policy. Hmmmm...

So I explained to her that I've had TiVos for 13 years. I explained that as soon as I noticed my HD was dead I immediately bought and activated a new TiVo. I explained that I had no idea when my HD died, as I haven't used it in about 2 months. It could have been dead for most of this time. No matter - I'm not asking for anything back. The unit is dead. I have a new one that's already activated.

She was completely unemphatic. She was polite, but really didn't care. When I told her this was likely going to result in me returning my Roamio, she seemed equally unconcerned.

What the heck is going in with TiVO. It's not the money that's the issue for me. It could be $2 or it could be $50. What kind of idiotic company thinks it's reasonable to charge a customer for service they can't possibly use? If I hadn't activated a new TiVo I could almost, maybe, kinda see their point. And I told her this.

The Roamio looks like a very nice device. I've enjoyed every TiVo I've ever had. I just don't think this is a company I want to do business with. I'll be exercising my 30-day return policy on the service and will return my device.

MythTV or Windows Media Center won't be a TiVO, but it'll be good enough.


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Well yeah but he said that in the original post and it went on 13 pages.

Obviously the issue isn't why HE says he quit.

The issue was always why quit over that.
Not really... Go back and read it. He rambles on for quite a while and towards the end, was kind of contradicting himself by saying he "didn't want anything back" and then convolutes it further by saying he could almost understand the policy if he hadn't bought an activated a new Roamio... Which really has no bearing on anything... I think if he'd just said what I said (that TiVo needs to change their written policy for him to stay), in the OP, this thread wouldn't be as long.

But I agree. It's a silly reason to give up TiVo over this, especially considering they have already given him everything he originally wanted. I guess for him to stay they need to change their written Policy. Which has about as much chance of happening as him getting another brand of DVR. I'm guessing he was just venting and will eventually go back to using his TiVo or will use no DVR at all.
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Old 08-04-2014, 11:26 PM   #366
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Not really... Go back and read it. He rambles on for quite a while and towards the end, was kind of contradicting himself by saying he "didn't want anything back" and then convolutes it further by saying he could almost understand the policy if he hadn't bought an activated a new Roamio... Which really has no bearing on anything... I think if he'd just said what I said (that TiVo needs to change their written policy for him to stay), in the OP, this thread wouldn't be as long.
Not sure why this is so hard to get. I don't care about the money. I don't want to do business with a company that charges for service that can't be used. No contradiction.

To be blunt, I have to wonder if most of are struggling with the fact that my issue is based on a principle and not how I was harmed personally. This seems to be elusive to many of you. Perhaps I'm wrong.

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But I agree. It's a silly reason to give up TiVo over this, especially considering they have already given him everything he originally wanted. I guess for him to stay they need to change their written Policy. Which has about as much chance of happening as him getting another brand of DVR. I'm guessing he was just venting and will eventually go back to using his TiVo or will use no DVR at all.
The chance of them changing their policy is irrelevant. I can only change what is in my control.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:49 AM   #367
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Not sure why this is so hard to get. I don't care about the money. I don't want to do business with a company that charges for service that can't be used. No contradiction.

To be blunt, I have to wonder if most of are struggling with the fact that my issue is based on a principle and not how I was harmed personally. This seems to be elusive to many of you. Perhaps I'm wrong.


The chance of them changing their policy is irrelevant. I can only change what is in my control.
You see? It's statements like that one that invite argument and have kept this ridiculous thread going for so long. You do a very poor job of conveying any type of clear message of where you are coming from. There's a contradiction within that very statement you just made. Of course you care if they change their Policy... Are you saying you only care because it happened to YOU and to hell with anyone else they have ever screwed or will ever screw again? Is that really the pillion of principle you want to hang your hat on? Seems rather petty when you frame it that way. But whatever... I'm done with this discussion. The only question I have left is if you have returned your Roamio and what brand of DVR are you planning to get instead?
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:51 AM   #368
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Not really... Go back and read it. He rambles on for quite a while and towards the end, was kind of contradicting himself by saying he "didn't want anything back" and then convolutes it further by saying he could almost understand the policy if he hadn't bought an activated a new Roamio... Which really has no bearing on anything... I think if he'd just said what I said (that TiVo needs to change their written policy for him to stay), in the OP, this thread wouldn't be as long.
The new Tivo just means he wasn't canceling service. He was continuing service just on a new box. Even more reason he shouldn't be charged for the whole month on the old box that he's canceling.

He said he "wasn't asking for anything back." You said he thought "a refund shouldn't have to be asked for." Same thing.


The issue is no big deal on its own. It's the quitting over it that makes everyone pause and say, "huh?"
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:04 AM   #369
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You see? It's statements like that one that invite argument and have kept this ridiculous thread going for so long.
It helps the thread to have an OP so earnest and unaware he's overeacting.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:58 AM   #370
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I cancelled my Netflix disc service recently . They did not prorate my charges. They only said that it would end at the end of my billing cycle. I had no choice . The only option I had was to stop them from sending me any more discs. But nothing about giving me a prorated refund.
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:18 AM   #371
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You see? It's statements like that one that invite argument and have kept this ridiculous thread going for so long. You do a very poor job of conveying any type of clear message of where you are coming from. There's a contradiction within that very statement you just made. Of course you care if they change their Policy... Are you saying you only care because it happened to YOU and to hell with anyone else they have ever screwed or will ever screw again? Is that really the pillion of principle you want to hang your hat on? Seems rather petty when you frame it that way. But whatever... I'm done with this discussion. The only question I have left is if you have returned your Roamio and what brand of DVR are you planning to get instead?
The really weird part is why this bothers you so much. Why do you really care why he wants to drop service?
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:51 AM   #372
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The really weird part is why this bothers you so much. Why do you really care why he wants to drop service?
Ah come on, what would you do to keep this Thread going, we could try to solve the Israel Gaza conflict, that would keep this Thread going for the next few 100 years.
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:10 AM   #373
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I cancelled my Netflix disc service recently . They did not prorate my charges. They only said that it would end at the end of my billing cycle. I had no choice . The only option I had was to stop them from sending me any more discs. But nothing about giving me a prorated refund.
already discussed a few hundred posts ago, and not an accurate comparison. if you were moving, changed your address, and netflix charged you for the rest of the month for your old address, plus started new charges for your new address, you'd come closer to what happened to the op.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:16 PM   #374
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This is still going on?
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Old 08-05-2014, 02:11 PM   #375
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This is still going on?
YES
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:08 PM   #376
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You see? It's statements like that one that invite argument and have kept this ridiculous thread going for so long. You do a very poor job of conveying any type of clear message of where you are coming from. There's a contradiction within that very statement you just made. Of course you care if they change their Policy... Are you saying you only care because it happened to YOU and to hell with anyone else they have ever screwed or will ever screw again? Is that really the pillion of principle you want to hang your hat on? Seems rather petty when you frame it that way. But whatever... I'm done with this discussion. The only question I have left is if you have returned your Roamio and what brand of DVR are you planning to get instead?
I didn't say changing their policy was irrelevant. I said the CHANCE of them doing so was irreverent, which was point made by somebody else that I was addressing. It's not about me getting $12 back. It's about how the run their business and treat customers. Is there a 10% chance they'll change their behavior or policy based on my actions? Is there a 0.00001% chance? I don't care - it's irrelevant. Where is the contradiction?

I know you said you're done, and I respect that. But I'd really like to understand where I'm being contradictory.

There are two things that are keeping this thread going: people asking me for clarification on the same points that have have already been clarified many times. And the second is people asking "is this still going on?" I can only hope they are doing so sardonically.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:32 AM   #377
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already discussed a few hundred posts ago, and not an accurate comparison. if you were moving, changed your address, and netflix charged you for the rest of the month for your old address, plus started new charges for your new address, you'd come closer to what happened to the op.
I see no difference. The OP cancelled and wanted a prorated refund. I cancelled Netflix and did not get a prorated refund. I see zero difference. That is if someone wants their service to end on the day they cancel. And the Netflix Service was $15 a month, more than TiVo. I don't see a big deal personally. But the OP had an issue with it for some strange reason.

Besides, anyone keeping track of things they pay for would just cancel near the end of their billing cycle. Which is what I did with Netflix. And would be the same thing I would do if I cancelled TiVo sevice on a monthly subscription.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:47 AM   #378
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already discussed a few hundred posts ago, and not an accurate comparison. if you were moving, changed your address, and netflix charged you for the rest of the month for your old address, plus started new charges for your new address, you'd come closer to what happened to the op.
If I moved, opened a new Netflix account at the new address, and then went back and wanted them to cancel the old one and pro-rate it or transfer it to the new address...

Let's not forget the order he did things in. It is relevant to the discussion, and continuously glossing over it is muddying things.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:15 AM   #379
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I see no difference. The OP cancelled and wanted a prorated refund. I cancelled Netflix and did not get a prorated refund. I see zero difference.
The difference is that I wasn't cancelling service. One machine was dead and I got a new one. There is no equivalent in the Netflix model. Imagine that you moved and when you changed your address you were told you needed to pay for a month of service on the old address and a month on the new one.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:25 AM   #380
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Let's not forget the order he did things in. It is relevant to the discussion, and continuously glossing over it is muddying things.
I know, right? He's such an idiotic moron!

And you (and others) are continuously making personal attacks and suggesting I should have known better. Most of us don't live on this site and don't know there are alternate ways to get things done. I read the information available and I did what I could on the web site. Please show me where I'm muddying things (your implication is that I'm doing so intentionally) and I'll clear it up.

And had I known then what I know now, I would have done it differently. I went to the web site and tried my best to get a TiVo going online. As I mentioned, I work long hours and I travel. Making a call during during the day is sometimes just not possible. "Why didn't you just call." It may be hard for you to imagine, but often I just can't make a call during they day.

Could I have done it differently? Sure. Could TiVo's instructions, direction, and intent be more clear? Absolutely.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:48 AM   #381
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Most of us don't live on this site and don't know there are alternate ways to get things done.

Were you born yesterday?

Because, unless you were, you knew the alternate way to get things done was to actually ask for the refund you wanted. OR ask to talk with a manager to resolve your issue.

But instead you ask for nothing. You play the passive aggressive game with the minimum wage CSR. And then quit over ~$10.

Then profess how much you loved Tivo and think they are the best and it wasn't about the money.
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Old 08-06-2014, 01:54 PM   #382
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This is still going on?
Yes !! But almost 12,000 views and getting close to 400 posts, only 20 more to go to get to the 400 mark, over a $10 to $12 dispute.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:56 AM   #383
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Were you born yesterday?

Because, unless you were, you knew the alternate way to get things done was to actually ask for the refund you wanted. OR ask to talk with a manager to resolve your issue.

But instead you ask for nothing. You play the passive aggressive game with the minimum wage CSR. And then quit over ~$10.

Then profess how much you loved Tivo and think they are the best and it wasn't about the money.
Have you ever seen the Abbot and Costello bit called "Who's on First?" I feel like we're having the conversation. It's not about the $10. I could care less about the $10. If I cared about the $10 and really wanted it back I of course would have talked to a manager.

My issue is not about me being charged. It's about how TiVo does business. I get that you don't get it (and won't).
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:01 PM   #384
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Have you ever seen the Abbot and Costello bit called "Who's on First?" I feel like we're having the conversation. It's not about the $10. I could care less about the $10. If I cared about the $10 and really wanted it back I of course would have talked to a manager.

My issue is not about me being charged. It's about how TiVo does business. I get that you don't get it (and won't).

Talk about having conversations over and over. You just told me it isn't about the $10 in response to me saying that's your position.

But if there was no money involved there wouldn't be an issue now would there be? No.

Have you heard of the river in Egypt that's the longest river in the world? You're in that river.

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Old 08-10-2014, 11:17 PM   #385
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Talk about having conversations over and over. You just told me it isn't about the $10 in response to me saying that's your position.

But if there was no money involved there wouldn't be an issue now would there be? No.

Have you heard of the river in Egypt that's the longest river in the world? You're in that river.
What are you blathering about (again). It's not about me getting charged $10. It's about their business model and they fact that the charge people for two TiVos when they're using only one. If this didn't happen to I'd still have an issue with it. What about this do you not get?

Already mentioned this, but will do so again to try and make a point (not sure why, since you're clearly incapable of getting it): I refused to ever shop at Walmart based on their treatment of Vlassic as a supplier. I don't even eat Vlassic pickles. Based on your responses here you would seemingly argue that I have some some of pickle issue, or some other nonsense. It's not about Vlassic or the pickles I eat. It's about their business practices.

Last word can be yours. Done trying to communicate with you.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:48 AM   #386
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What are you blathering about (again). It's not about me getting charged $10. It's about their business model and they fact that the charge people for two TiVos when they're using only one. If this didn't happen to I'd still have an issue with it. What about this do you not get?

Already mentioned this, but will do so again to try and make a point (not sure why, since you're clearly incapable of getting it): I refused to ever shop at Walmart based on their treatment of Vlassic as a supplier. I don't even eat Vlassic pickles. Based on your responses here you would seemingly argue that I have some some of pickle issue, or some other nonsense. It's not about Vlassic or the pickles I eat. It's about their business practices.

Last word can be yours. Done trying to communicate with you.
I'm sure an issue could be found with a very large percentage of businesses. I'm personally not going to stop doing business at every one because of it. Especailly for a large company like Walmart. Walmart saves me too much money to stop doing business with them because of how they treat one company. Besides doing that will make absolutely no difference in the big picture. And in the end it would only hurt me. It certainly would not hurt Walmart.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:14 AM   #387
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I'm sure an issue could be found with a very large percentage of businesses. I'm personally not going to stop doing business at every one because of it. Especailly for a large company like Walmart. Walmart saves me too much money to stop doing business with them because of how they treat one company. Besides doing that will make absolutely no difference in the big picture. And in the end it would only hurt me. It certainly would not hurt Walmart.
The issue is sometimes called economic warfare and it usually does not work if done by individuals, sometimes it does not work even if done by countries, but if it makes someone feel better the extra money it may cost them may be OK.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:45 PM   #388
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What are you blathering about (again). It's not about me getting charged $10. It's about their business model and they fact that the charge people for two TiVos when they're using only one. If this didn't happen to I'd still have an issue with it. What about this do you not get?
If there wasn't money involved there wouldn't be an issue.

Your issue is the amt of money they billed you for your last month of service. You thought it should have been about $10 less.

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Old 08-13-2014, 02:45 AM   #389
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If I broke my cellphone, I wouldn't go buy a new one, set up new service on it, and then complain that I was paying for service on two phones a couple months later.

I would transfer the service to the new phone when I bought it, and be done.

Why would a monthly subscription on another device like a TiVo be any different?

And you claim you don't want to do business with a company that would do something you agreed to in 2008. So you did do business with them.

Whatever.
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:54 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Arcady View Post
If I broke my cellphone, I wouldn't go buy a new one, set up new service on it, and then complain that I was paying for service on two phones a couple months later.

I would transfer the service to the new phone when I bought it, and be done.

Why would a monthly subscription on another device like a TiVo be any different?

And you claim you don't want to do business with a company that would do something you agreed to in 2008. So you did do business with them.

Whatever.
Another person who apparently has not read my posts. You really expect me to have anticipated that TiVo would charge me for a month of service on a device that was disconnected (and dead)? And you expect to me to have remembered the details of that from 2008?

I don't get your cell phone analogy at all. Last year I broke my cell phone. I bought a new one on Amazon. When it got here, I went online and transferred the service to my new phone. So no, I would not have expected to be charger for both phones.

The only exception to this would be if I was getting service from two different companies and I didn't inform the first one.

If you're implying that you would pay for service for two phones on the same account when one was dead and you had replaced it, that's an absurd assertion.
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