TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Help Center
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-09-2014, 01:36 AM   #1
bkc56
Designated Grunt
 
bkc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 639
Problems creating replacement Series 1 disk

We have a couple old Series 1 Tivos that I've done multiple disk upgrades/replacements on over the years. One of the disks just died so I'm trying to image up a new one. I am trying to avoid the hassle of digging out the old Linux PC as I have in the past so I'm trying something new.

I'm trying to use WinMfs as defined here: http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/

Using the image as provided here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...28#post8919428

I've now done this with three different disk drives each with similar (bad) results:

80G - imaged fine, boots, did guided setup, data downloads, but part way through indexing it crashes. I went around this loop several times. For "fun" I tried to do a KickStart 57 (disk check) and now every time it gets to the GSoD it reboots - round and round. This disk is dead until I re-image it.

80G (a different one) - imaged find, will not boot (stays on the initial Tivo splash-screen forever).

200G - imaged fine, boots, did guided setup, data downloads, but part way through indexing it crashes (just like the first 80). The second time through the loop it rebooted to the GSoD and is now stuck in that loop.

These disks all came out of working (retired) PCs and passed a disk check utility before I imaged them. So I don't believe I have three bad disks (I don't think any of them are bad).

I am left with the conclusion that either the image is bad, or the utility is bad. Or perhaps there some undocumented magic I'm failing to do, but if there was I wouldn't think it would work at all.

So, does anyone have any idea what might be going wrong here?

I'm in the process now of trying to get one of my original/small disks to update from software version 2.5 to 3.0 so I can try capturing and using that image. That might confirm/deny that the above image is bad.

All thoughts, idea, suggestions welcome.

Thanks.
__________________
--bkc56
bkc56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 03:26 AM   #2
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc56 View Post
We have a couple old Series 1 Tivos that I've done multiple disk upgrades/replacements on over the years. One of the disks just died so I'm trying to image up a new one. I am trying to avoid the hassle of digging out the old Linux PC as I have in the past so I'm trying something new.

I'm trying to use WinMfs as defined here: http://www.mfslive.org/winmfs/

Using the image as provided here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...28#post8919428

I've now done this with three different disk drives each with similar (bad) results:

80G - imaged fine, boots, did guided setup, data downloads, but part way through indexing it crashes. I went around this loop several times. For "fun" I tried to do a KickStart 57 (disk check) and now every time it gets to the GSoD it reboots - round and round. This disk is dead until I re-image it.

80G (a different one) - imaged find, will not boot (stays on the initial Tivo splash-screen forever).

200G - imaged fine, boots, did guided setup, data downloads, but part way through indexing it crashes (just like the first 80). The second time through the loop it rebooted to the GSoD and is now stuck in that loop.

These disks all came out of working (retired) PCs and passed a disk check utility before I imaged them. So I don't believe I have three bad disks (I don't think any of them are bad).

I am left with the conclusion that either the image is bad, or the utility is bad. Or perhaps there some undocumented magic I'm failing to do, but if there was I wouldn't think it would work at all.

So, does anyone have any idea what might be going wrong here?

I'm in the process now of trying to get one of my original/small disks to update from software version 2.5 to 3.0 so I can try capturing and using that image. That might confirm/deny that the above image is bad.

All thoughts, idea, suggestions welcome.

Thanks.
Others have used that image successfully, 'though I don't recall for certain if they used the .bak or the .tbk


However, the problem with connecting to the mother ship and downloading stuff is by now almost legendary where the S1 is concerned and almost certainly not the fault of my image.

If you don't already have a copy of the MFS Live cd, download this

http://mfslive.org/forums/download/file.php?id=89

and burn yourself one "as an image"

and try the non-WinMFS version of the S1 image

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49887720/13Phil48.bak


to see if it makes a difference.

With either image, if restoring to a drive bigger than 13GB, I suggest doing the restoration only, and not making expanding a part of that.

You can always go back and expand later.

Also, if you're trying to connect via telephone line from the S1's internal modem, you might try lowering the speed to see if that helps keep it from dropping the connection.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 03:38 AM   #3
bkc56
Designated Grunt
 
bkc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Others have used that image successfully, 'though I don't recall for certain if they used the .bak or the .tbk
I've been using the .tbk. Using the live-cd is another option I can look at.

Quote:
However, the problem with connecting to the mother ship and downloading stuff is by now almost legendary...
True. But the failures are in downloading or indexing. I don't see anything about rebooting in the middle of indexing.

And the speed suggestion probably won't help since the download seems to complete fine.

I will also have to try NOT expanding when I image the disk and see if that helps. But unless expanding is corrupting the disk, I don't see how it could cause the problems I'm seeing.
__________________
--bkc56
bkc56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 05:52 PM   #4
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc56 View Post
I've been using the .tbk. Using the live-cd is another option I can look at.


True. But the failures are in downloading or indexing. I don't see anything about rebooting in the middle of indexing.

And the speed suggestion probably won't help since the download seems to complete fine.

I will also have to try NOT expanding when I image the disk and see if that helps. But unless expanding is corrupting the disk, I don't see how it could cause the problems I'm seeing.

Sometimes, with both WinMFS and doing the old school command line way with the MFS Live cd, doing expansion as a part of the copy or truncated image restoration process doesn't work right and causes problems, and that's in S1s, 2s, and 3s.

I don't know why, but since expansion can be done later as a separate step, I just do it that way and call it problem solved.

Suggest you go with swap partition of at least 128MB.

Also, even though it's not an S2 or S3, it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to take a voltmeter and check the DC outs of the power supply to make sure they're within acceptable range.

And remember, on an S1, you DO NOT want the "optimized" partition layout.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 06:00 PM   #5
bkc56
Designated Grunt
 
bkc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
I don't know why, but since expansion can be done later as a separate step, I just do it that way and call it problem solved.
Interesting. I've re-imaged all three disks today, the 2 80's with the same downloaded image, and the 200G with an image backed up from a 30G drive that I updated to v3.0 last night. I did not expand any of them.

I'll try guided setup on all three tonight and see what happens. I can then expand the 2 80's and see if they keep working. I can't expand the 200 because the stock Tivo kernel can't handle a disk that big, and WinMFS doesn't appear to allow me to limit the expansion (all or nothing).

Quote:
Suggest you go with swap partition of at least 128MB.
That's the default so I used that unchanged.


Thanks for your suggestions. I'll post the test results when I have 'em.
__________________
--bkc56
bkc56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 02:34 AM   #6
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc56 View Post
Interesting. I've re-imaged all three disks today, the 2 80's with the same downloaded image, and the 200G with an image backed up from a 30G drive that I updated to v3.0 last night. I did not expand any of them.

I'll try guided setup on all three tonight and see what happens. I can then expand the 2 80's and see if they keep working. I can't expand the 200 because the stock Tivo kernel can't handle a disk that big, and WinMFS doesn't appear to allow me to limit the expansion (all or nothing).



That's the default so I used that unchanged.


Thanks for your suggestions. I'll post the test results when I have 'em.

My image is of a patched kernal, so it can handle drives bigger than 127
GB.

Google "copykern"
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 02:58 AM   #7
bkc56
Designated Grunt
 
bkc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 639
Well, it looks like I was right after all when I said above: Or perhaps there some undocumented magic I'm failing to do. I only had time to test one of the un-expanded 80's but it successfully completed the update with no reboots. Tomorrow I'll try expanding it to the full 80G and see if it continues to work OK.

The next test will be to (step 1) image the drive, (step 2) THEN expand it, and (step 3) run guided setup. If that works that'll pretty much confirm that the problem was doing the image and expanding all in one step.

So thanks for that "magic" suggestion. The documentation should probably be updated to mention that little detail as it makes all the difference (at least for me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
My image is of a patched kernal, so it can handle drives bigger than 127 GB.
Yes, I am well aware of that. But as I noted above, I used a different image on that 200G disk that does not have the patched kernel. After I'm done testing the current image, I'll need to re-image it with your image to get the patched kernel and then I can expand it to the full disk.
__________________
--bkc56
bkc56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 12:36 AM   #8
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc56 View Post
Well, it looks like I was right after all when I said above: Or perhaps there some undocumented magic I'm failing to do. I only had time to test one of the un-expanded 80's but it successfully completed the update with no reboots. Tomorrow I'll try expanding it to the full 80G and see if it continues to work OK.

The next test will be to (step 1) image the drive, (step 2) THEN expand it, and (step 3) run guided setup. If that works that'll pretty much confirm that the problem was doing the image and expanding all in one step.

So thanks for that "magic" suggestion. The documentation should probably be updated to mention that little detail as it makes all the difference (at least for me).




Yes, I am well aware of that. But as I noted above, I used a different image on that 200G disk that does not have the patched kernel. After I'm done testing the current image, I'll need to re-image it with your image to get the patched kernel and then I can expand it to the full disk.

You can run GS prior to expansion.

An image installed to a drive over 137GB, but not expanded, is going to have as the last partition on the disk some unpartitioned space that's nevertheless going to be referred to in the Apple Partition Map as an Apple Free Partition.

It won't have any "TiVo stuff" written to it, so I don't know if the non LBA48 patched kernel can handle it or not (I'm not sure if the TiVo OS thinks of the drive as being the size it is or just the size of the part of it with TiVo-specific partitions), but you should keep that possibility in mind.
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 03:36 AM   #9
bkc56
Designated Grunt
 
bkc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 639
Well, I'm still having problems.

Disclaimer: I did not do comprehensive testing of the un-expanded disk. It successfully completed GS without rebooting, so I assumed it was good.

Tonight I tested two disks:

80G which I'd tested un-expanded last night. I expanded it and did a daily call. The download completed but it rebooted part way through indexing. I tried again with the same results.

200G which I re-imaged and (as a separate step) expanded. I ran GS tonight and the first attempt crashed in indexing. The second daily call attempt succeeded.

So I'm back to (1) a problem with the image, (2) a problem with the WinMfs tool, or (3) some additional magic I'm missing. At this point I can't honestly tell if doing the image and expansion as two steps helped, or if I just got lucky with yesterday's test.

This really shouldn't be so hard...
__________________
--bkc56
bkc56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 08:27 PM   #10
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkc56 View Post
Well, I'm still having problems.

Disclaimer: I did not do comprehensive testing of the un-expanded disk. It successfully completed GS without rebooting, so I assumed it was good.

Tonight I tested two disks:

80G which I'd tested un-expanded last night. I expanded it and did a daily call. The download completed but it rebooted part way through indexing. I tried again with the same results.

200G which I re-imaged and (as a separate step) expanded. I ran GS tonight and the first attempt crashed in indexing. The second daily call attempt succeeded.

So I'm back to (1) a problem with the image, (2) a problem with the WinMfs tool, or (3) some additional magic I'm missing. At this point I can't honestly tell if doing the image and expansion as two steps helped, or if I just got lucky with yesterday's test.

This really shouldn't be so hard...

Think of Series 1s as an adventure.


__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2014, 03:13 AM   #11
bkc56
Designated Grunt
 
bkc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 639
I've finally had to give up on the WinMFS path as anything created using that just reboots during guide data processing. Whatever the problem is, I can't figure it out.

I've moved on to an older previously used system which creates disks that don't crash, but that also don't work. New problem, so new thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=518505
__________________
--bkc56
bkc56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2014, 08:10 PM   #12
bkc56
Designated Grunt
 
bkc56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Posts: 639
Well, for anyone still following the adventure, here's my current state...

I am coming to the conclusion that there is something retained on an image from it's previous usage that can create problems if the image is used in the future.

The 13Phil48.tbk image referenced above simply will not work. It always crashes while processing the guide data.

Any of the images I have captured over the years (various software versions) will update to the current software fine but then get the "Failed while loading series" problem. It's as if they all carry some "history" from past Comcast connections that even a full clear of everything and re-running guided setup won't fix.

I did have some success with the 13Phil48.bak image from the above dropbox reference. It has a couple corrupted inodes on restoring the image but it seems to recover fine. And it seems to work OK.

The other thing I did was get a fresh backup from my other working Tivo. That image works perfectly whether I just restore it and turn it on, or if I run a full guided setup. Yet that disk was originally imaged with one of my old backups that I can no longer get to work. So it would appear that whatever "history" they have was fixed by re-running guided setup when Comcast when digital here a year or so back.

So I'm using that image on the Tivo who's disk died. And I will soon do a full disk-to-disk backup (including programs) for that Tivo who's disk has been showing some stuttering problems.

So now the question is: what happens in a few years when these new disks die and need to be replaced? Will this new backup still work then or will it too have problems when I try to re-use it later?

One also has to wonder how long I can keep a Series 1 working? They date from 2000 and 2002 and this is the third disk replacement on each (which counts the initial upgrade when they were new).

Just for grins, the disk lifespans have been: 6, 8, 12, and 2 years (that 2 year one isn't dead yet, but with the stuttering I plan to replace it before it dies and I loose everything on it).
__________________
--bkc56
bkc56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |