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Old 07-06-2014, 02:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
.........................

My testing of the Red NAS outside of TiVo, is showing they start off strong at over 150MB/s max on the inner tracks (low LBAs), but steadily arc down to as low as 60MB/s on the outer tracks (high LBAs). That's with consecutive reads and writes all the way, and only one at a time. I'm not sure that those slower outer tracks are well-suited for 6-tuners of HD, or even 4...
...............................

60MB/s?!?! That low?!?! That is only 480Mb/s.

Although that is still faster than a TiVo would need. Worst case would be 12 streams at 19Mb/s. Which in reality would never happen. but that would still only be 228Mb/s.

60MB/s just seems awfully slow.

On another note. Will this upgrade also work with 5TB or 6TB drives? Assuming the TiVo can handle the power demands of those drives. I've noticed the prices for the 5TB and 6TB drives have dropped recently. I've seen 6TB drives going for under $300 recently. Although I'm not sure how hot those drives would be since they use six, 1TB platters.

I'm still not sure if I'm going to try this with my Roamio Pro. But I do want to keep my options open if I see a great price on the 4TB and larger drives.
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
On another note. Will this upgrade also work with 5TB or 6TB drives? Assuming the TiVo can handle the power demands of those drives. I've noticed the prices for the 5TB and 6TB drives have dropped recently. I've seen 6TB drives going for under $300 recently. Although I'm not sure how hot those drives would be since they use six, 1TB platters.
5TB & 6TB is being checked out but it's too early to say anything except it does not immediately work.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:08 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Is that going by NewEgg's auto-scripting of "newer model available"? I'm seriously believing that to be in error, or an attempt by WD to call attention to their new drive line, by misleading NewEgg.

Unless WD re-words their marketing materials and spec sheets for the Purple PURX drives, I see them more as a drive made for RAID arrays that handle AV exclusively. The Red NAS line has actually been the leader on that front (they are also AV-rated).
So I did research the Purple's more. They are an upgraded AV-GP (ie Green) for sure. They have the same aggregate transfer speed and power draw--5.1W @ 4TB loaded--but they appear to have a tweaked firmware or upgraded controller that allows up to 32 simultaneous streams. The drive I purchases, via the ATA7 Streaming command set, can support up to 12 simultaneous streams while the newer Purple drive will sport up to 32 simultaneous steams. This is targetting at more the surveillance market for many cameras.

Overall, doesn't matter for TiVo given you're not gonna hit 12-streams anyway.
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Old 07-06-2014, 07:44 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
So I did research the Purple's more. They are an upgraded AV-GP (ie Green) for sure. They have the same aggregate transfer speed and power draw--5.1W @ 4TB loaded--but they appear to have a tweaked firmware or upgraded controller that allows up to 32 simultaneous streams. The drive I purchases, via the ATA7 Streaming command set, can support up to 12 simultaneous streams while the newer Purple drive will sport up to 32 simultaneous steams. This is targetting at more the surveillance market for many cameras.

Overall, doesn't matter for TiVo given you're not gonna hit 12-streams anyway.
I thought it could hit twelve read/write streams? How many Minis can be streamed concurrently? Just on the main Roamio Pro/Plus there are seven streams happening concurrently all the time. The six tuners and the one tuner being viewed. Since the content is written to the drive first before being read to be sent to the HDMI out. I know it can be at least three Minis plus streaming/transferring to another TiVo. That is eleven streams right there.


EDIT: Based on this quote from 2013 it looks like it will do 12 streams since this person was streaming to five Minis concurrently. So six tuners all being written to the drive. And then six streams being read, all concurrent.

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Originally Posted by geekmedic View Post
I have 6 Minis and was streaming simultaneously with 5 of them while live TV was on the Roamio. Not a single problem.

Haven't tried to do 6 streams. Not sure it's possible since I think the Roamio always needs a tuner active.
Although I'm pretty sure since the last software update I might have issues doing this since the max transfer speeds from my Roamio Pro are so much slower than with the previous software.
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Old 07-06-2014, 09:19 PM   #35
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I thought it could hit twelve read/write streams? How many Minis can be streamed concurrently? Just on the main Roamio Pro/Plus there are seven streams happening concurrently all the time. The six tuners and the one tuner being viewed. Since the content is written to the drive first before being read to be sent to the HDMI out. I know it can be at least three Minis plus streaming/transferring to another TiVo. That is eleven streams right there.


EDIT: Based on this quote from 2013 it looks like it will do 12 streams since this person was streaming to five Minis concurrently. So six tuners all being written to the drive. And then six streams being read, all concurrent.
Each active TiVo Mini uses a tuner while streaming content, whether live off the tuner or streaming from disk. You can have 8 total Minis in a single home ie on the same network, pulling from some set of TiVo DVRs but each DVR is limited by its # of tuners. I found this out after getting the ATSC compatible 4-tuner TiVo in case the cable option didn't work out, but yea more tuners are good especially for the Minis. The documentation says:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiVo Mini FAQ
Q: How many Mini boxes can be supported on one TiVo DVR?

A: Up to eight TiVo Minis can be supported by one TiVo network containing either TiVo Roamio or Premiere DVRs. One tuner is used each time a TiVo Mini is being used on the network. Therefore, depending on the number of DVRs and tuners you have available, you may not be able to have all eight operating simultaneously.
TiVo Roamio DVRs allow for dynamic tuner allocation, so the tuner is only used when the Mini needs it and is released back to the DVR for use when the TiVo Mini isn’t in use. TiVo Premiere DVRs do NOT support dynamic tuner allocation, so any Mini connected to a Premiere is allocated a constantly dedicated tuner and therefore reduces the tuners available for the Premiere DVR.
So your number of read/write streams are limited by # of tuners ultimately. Because of this, you won't hit the 12 stream limit on the GP-AV line.

Either way, the Purple line should work just fine in TiVos. The power draw is the same, supports same features. It supports more streams at 32 versus 12 in the older line, though they go unused it shouldn't hurt compatibility in any way.
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Old 07-07-2014, 05:17 AM   #36
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So I did research the Purple's more. They are an upgraded AV-GP (ie Green) for sure. They have the same aggregate transfer speed and power draw--5.1W @ 4TB loaded--but they appear to have a tweaked firmware or upgraded controller that allows up to 32 simultaneous streams. The drive I purchases, via the ATA7 Streaming command set, can support up to 12 simultaneous streams while the newer Purple drive will sport up to 32 simultaneous steams. This is targetting at more the surveillance market for many cameras.

Overall, doesn't matter for TiVo given you're not gonna hit 12-streams anyway.
NOT SO FAST:

As I always have to keep pointing out, when any drive maker specifies "streams" supported on an AV-drive, they are specifically stating streams using the AV Streaming Feature, also known as the "ATA Streaming Command Set" extensions, which TiVo does not utilize. TiVo utilizes plain data reads and writes. TiVo would have to completely re-invent a new file system, and re-code the software to use it.

When it comes to TiVos (every one ever made), you can not use that "streams" supported number. You must calculate the bandwidth of the stream for each tuner (SD will be lower than HD), and what the standard data transfer rate of the drive is, and if the drive can keep up.

WD calls this unused AV feature "Silkstream" (which they state is backwards compatible with the standard), which is really mostly WD wanting to put their own branding on a standard, like how it is with HDMI-CEC. Seagate has their own name for it, and any other drive maker that makes AV drives likely will brand it as something as their own. It's yet another bastardization of a standard, creating consumer confusion.

I'll repeat the important part: TiVo does not use the AV streaming feature (ATA Streaming Command Set extensions), which makes the "supported streams" advertised a useless number to draw any conclusions from, for TiVo use.

I'm just making sure people are clear on this. This is not something I just made up. If TiVo used the AV Streaming Feature, non-AV drives would fail to work at all, in a TiVo. The AV Streaming Feature uses an option in the drive firmware to use different methods of reading, writing, and error-correction (a general lack of error correction on AV reads/writes).

EDIT/ADD: It might seem reasonable to make an assumption that a drive that advertises 32 AV streams, as opposed to 12 AV streams, would have a greater capacity when writing AV streams, while not using the actual AV Streaming Feature, writing AV in standard data (non-AV) mode, as a TiVo does. I wouldn't make that assumption. But, to each their own, and YMMV, etc.

The specs and marketing materials for the WD Purple are still evolving. It wasn't that long ago that the AV-GP marketing data didn't include TV DVR use. It was marketed as a surveillance drive for most of its lifetime. Until the AV-GP is officially EOL designated, I expect WD to continue revising the marketing data. I'm certain the Purple will follow the same pattern of continued additions of what it is marketed for.

The WD Red NAS, prior to NASware 2.0, was a major disappointment, with major incompatibility issues. The NASware 2.0 version, is so different, that the older drives can't be firmware updated to 2.0. However, unless the drives are used in a NAS environment, which somehow tells the drive "you are being used in NAS", the NASware part of the firmware will be inactive, turning off all the NAS optimizations. This is similar to how the the AV-GP operates in standard data mode, unless everything involved supports the AV Streaming Feature, and it is enabled by the host. The Red NAS being an AV drive as well, makes no use of the AV optimizations or the NAS optimizations, in a TiVo.

So, the reality of the Purple, when it comes to use in a TiVo, is that it may not offer any improvements or enhancements (may all be dormant), offering nothing more than being a 24/7/365 drive, limited to the standard performance restraints of a low-power profile 5400RPM drive.

Until WD states how many TB/year the drive is rated for (TB written per year), which is what determines the approximate lifespan of the drive, the Purple could be a step back from other drives. WD doesn't like to publish these numbers. They usually only state them when in negotiations with a large potential corporate client, in order to give WD an edge, if the published specs aren't enough to get a commitment.

I find the rather low initial price of something that is an entirely new product line (or that's what we are supposed to believe), suspiciously low. That has me wondering is if this is a premium drive or a budget drive. At the market-entry pricing, it seems a bit too reasonably priced for me to possibly consider it being a better drive than a Red NAS.

Still, in the end, all of WDs specs and marketing are just far too specific to having the optional-use feature sets in-use. They don't publish the specs for "running like any old 5400RPM, 24/7-use, low power profile, drive" specs. Those are the specs that would matter for TiVo use. For TiVo, the ONLY feature, beyond power profile and 24/7, that I see being very beneficial, and has always been part of AV-GP drive marketing, is PWL (Preemptive Wear Leveling), which sweeps the heads across the entire surface of the platters (beyond the actual data tracks, both inner and outer). 24/7/365 drives need this to keep the head mechanism from wearing the swivel point (bearing) unevenly.

Sorry about the length and repetition of so many things. I need to just move along and get back to my tasks with the WD Red NAS drives that I'm working on (which I hope will clear up a few uncertainties with them). I'll try to come back and pare this post down later.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:09 AM   #37
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Each active TiVo Mini uses a tuner while streaming content, whether live off the tuner or streaming from disk. You can have 8 total Minis in a single home ie on the same network, pulling from some set of TiVo DVRs but each DVR is limited by its # of tuners. I found this out after getting the ATSC compatible 4-tuner TiVo in case the cable option didn't work out, but yea more tuners are good especially for the Minis. The documentation says:



So your number of read/write streams are limited by # of tuners ultimately. Because of this, you won't hit the 12 stream limit on the GP-AV line.

Either way, the Purple line should work just fine in TiVos. The power draw is the same, supports same features. It supports more streams at 32 versus 12 in the older line, though they go unused it shouldn't hurt compatibility in any way.
That's just it. With six tuners there can be twelve streams. Six write streams and six read streams. And then if you have more devices playing back previously recorded content, each of those would add another stream.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:46 AM   #38
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I glad nooneyouknow pointed out that the protocol that the multi stream AV drives isn't utilized by TiVo.

Also, the given 12-13mbs requirement is a network specification, not a internal hard drive requirement. A standard desktop sata II interface speed of 3gb is more than fast enough to handle 4 or more tuners, simply stated for those who have used non-AV rated drives in their Roamios would have TiVos that couldn't handle more than 2 tuners.

On top of that, this discussion keeps referring to the issue of supporting multiple Stream boxes due to the impact requirment of multi streams being supported by the hard drive but you forget that regardless if you have one or more Stream, your TiVo is always recording and always buffering each tuner and with the Roamio plus and Pro, up to 6 "streams".

As much as a perfectionist would state the AV rated drives are used in the TiVo, majority of the technical features of these drives are not utilized even in the newest TiVo available. This makes a colorful technical laced conversation but the fact remains the use of AV is more a OEM vendor preference and has little if any technical requirement for such. If the Roamio had PATA drive support, even those older drives would still work fine. TiVo uses AV drives due to their economical postion and availability, not for their multistream ability.
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Old 07-07-2014, 12:40 PM   #39
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As much as a perfectionist would state the AV rated drives are used in the TiVo, majority of the technical features of these drives are not utilized even in the newest TiVo available. This makes a colorful technical laced conversation but the fact remains the use of AV is more a OEM vendor preference and has little if any technical requirement for such. If the Roamio had PATA drive support, even those older drives would still work fine. TiVo uses AV drives due to their economical postion and availability, not for their multistream ability.
Power usage and longevity under 24x7 usage would be the key metrics they would look at, which the AV drives are tailored for. The firmware is likely tweaked for the particular workload regardless of optional command set usage. 4-5W is really low for a 3.5" drive.

Heat and power definitely a bigger deal than performance in this scenario. 6 tuners streaming @ ~3MB/sec isn't a big deal for modern spindles.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:09 PM   #40
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I glad nooneyouknow pointed out that the protocol that the multi stream AV drives isn't utilized by TiVo.

Also, the given 12-13mbs requirement is a network specification, not a internal hard drive requirement. A standard desktop sata II interface speed of 3gb is more than fast enough to handle 4 or more tuners, simply stated for those who have used non-AV rated drives in their Roamios would have TiVos that couldn't handle more than 2 tuners.

On top of that, this discussion keeps referring to the issue of supporting multiple Stream boxes due to the impact requirment of multi streams being supported by the hard drive but you forget that regardless if you have one or more Stream, your TiVo is always recording and always buffering each tuner and with the Roamio plus and Pro, up to 6 "streams".

As much as a perfectionist would state the AV rated drives are used in the TiVo, majority of the technical features of these drives are not utilized even in the newest TiVo available. This makes a colorful technical laced conversation but the fact remains the use of AV is more a OEM vendor preference and has little if any technical requirement for such. If the Roamio had PATA drive support, even those older drives would still work fine. TiVo uses AV drives due to their economical postion and availability, not for their multistream ability.
On the part highlighted in blue: No matter what speed the drive interface is capable of, the base Roamios still set it to SATA-I mode, and then selects ATA-133 speed. I've been able to repeatedly verify this in the TiVo logs. I was told by ggieseke that the max any Roamio will communicate with the drive is SATA-I, which tops out at 150MB/s. Others have verified this as well. I've also noted that the average consecutive read/write speeds with any "green" 5400RPM drive are ~150MB/s on inner tracks, and ~133MB/s in the middle tracks. So, anybody buying AV drives for higher interface specs, and/or higher number of AV streams specified using AV Streaming Features, is wasting money, if they pay more for that. I'm quite sure the Purple drives will have no edge over the AV-GP or Red NAS drives, when doing an apples-to-apples comparison, using standard data benchmarks. A 5400RPM platter drive can only do so much, unless those extra AV features that TiVo doesn't use are in the picture.

The part highlighted in red isn't correct, or you just made an error in what you were trying to express. People are using non-AV drives in their 4 & 6 tuner TiVos, and they work. However, I used to have problems with my TiVo HD and Premiere 2TB non-AV drives getting corrupted when near full capacity with 2 tuners.

I'll make an educated guess that those using non-AV drives on 4 & 6 tuner models will get less corruption-free time & less drive life, than those using AV drives, even though the AV streaming feature isn't used. As I said, this is an educated guess, not a declaration of fact.

I tried an experiment on one by setting a HPA on the drive to limit how far out recordings could go towards the slower outer tracks. That non-AV drive lasted for just over 3 years of 24/7/365 operation, without corrupting. When I pulled the power to relocate it, the heads welded themselves to the platters. If it had been an AV drive, it would have had PWL, which could have theoretically kept that from happening by sweeping the heads across the full platter area (going in further than the innermost track, and beyond the outermost track), keeping the head mechanism bearing wearing evenly, and keeping the lubricant spread evenly.

The LBA limiting experiment seemed to prove the slower outer tracks were causing problems, even with 2 tuners. But, I only did that experiment on one Premiere, so replication was not possible. So, this can only be a guess or assumption, without replicating the results under the same parameters.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:29 PM   #41
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Power usage and longevity under 24x7 usage would be the key metrics they would look at, which the AV drives are tailored for. The firmware is likely tweaked for the particular workload regardless of optional command set usage. 4-5W is really low for a 3.5" drive.

Heat and power definitely a bigger deal than performance in this scenario. 6 tuners streaming @ ~3MB/sec isn't a big deal for modern spindles.
I call BS on tweaking and optimization regardless of optional command sets being disabled. If the drive could tweak and optimize without them, they wouldn't be optional. Don't forget how much AV we do on computers using non-AV drives. Clearly, AV can work (to a point) with any platter drive.

Might an AV drive be better suited to the way TiVos write in long contiguous blocks, even though the AV command set is disabled? So far, I have found no proof of this, but haven't ruled it out. The only optimization I dare to suggest is the lifespan being extended due to PWL, on the AV drives that have it. The only thing I can't verify is if the PWL is independent from the optional modes (can't verify it makes the platter sweeps while not using the AV extensions).

My SD channels are 3.89MB/s and my HD channels are 11.36MB/s on the better channels. Some are a fraction lower, but the only channels I have that are significantly lower are music channels, 0.38MB/s SD & 0.67MB/s HD.

Your bandwidth calculations are off, and your interpretation of the WD specs and marketing materials seem off.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:28 PM   #42
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On todays Hard drives all you should look for is low power and at least 5400 RPM, they will all work in a TiVo, with the delete folder filled up you are using the total drive very quickly, unless you deleting stuff from the delete folder.
I think you guys are over thinking this hard drive issue, just my option.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:56 PM   #43
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On todays Hard drives all you should look for is low power and at least 5400 RPM, they will all work in a TiVo, with the delete folder filled up you are using the total drive very quickly, unless you deleting stuff from the delete folder.
I think you guys are over thinking this hard drive issue, just my option.
I use KMTTG, so being so easy to clear my RD folder (Ctrl-A & Del key), I do so. It does seem to make the menus a little zippier, and I notice fewer glitches in recordings.

I've found the speed in which the data in System Information fully populates is a very reliable indicator of anything loading or slowing the drive. There's always a momentary delay for some data to fill, but it gets longer if I don't clear RD.

If said data takes more than 3 seconds to populate, and the TiVo is not busy recording, there's a good chance that there is corruption, and it's time for a KS 57/58. If that doesn't fix it I tend to find sectors erroneously marked as bad.

P.S. Are you trying to balance things out, since I tend to always comment anywhere you bring up the "any low-power profile 5400 RPM drive will do" opinion?
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:05 AM   #44
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I use KMTTG, so being so easy to clear my RD folder (Ctrl-A & Del key), I do so. It does seem to make the menus a little zippier, and I notice fewer glitches in recordings.

I've found the speed in which the data in System Information fully populates is a very reliable indicator of anything loading or slowing the drive. There's always a momentary delay for some data to fill, but it gets longer if I don't clear RD.

If said data takes more than 3 seconds to populate, and the TiVo is not busy recording, there's a good chance that there is corruption, and it's time for a KS 57/58. If that doesn't fix it I tend to find sectors erroneously marked as bad.

P.S. Are you trying to balance things out, since I tend to always comment anywhere you bring up the "any low-power profile 5400 RPM drive will do" opinion?
I will have to start using KMTTG as I did not know about the quick delete od the DF.
Over the years I have used many different Hard Drives in TiVos and never found any problems (other than the park crap with WD) with any brand, but I do use WD most of the time.
If somebody has had any (more than once) bad experience with any brand of hard drives (not SSD) for TiVo use I would like to know.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:59 PM   #45
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I put a Samsung HD203WI in my TiVo HD a few years ago. That was an upgrade from a 1 tb Western Digital green non-AV drive. The HD203WI developed a few bad sectors and was replaced by a HD204UI.

The only other drive to have issues was one of the original drives (WD1600) in a secondhand Tivo HD. There were no bad sectors in the first 40% or so of the drive and then there was a wall of bad sectors that caused both the WD diagnostic and HD Tune Pro to quit halfway through the test.
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Old 07-10-2014, 05:44 PM   #46
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I will have to start using KMTTG as I did not know about the quick delete od the DF.
Over the years I have used many different Hard Drives in TiVos and never found any problems (other than the park crap with WD) with any brand, but I do use WD most of the time.
If somebody has had any (more than once) bad experience with any brand of hard drives (not SSD) for TiVo use I would like to know.
On top of the quick bulk deletion of RD contents (happens instantly on an uncorrupted drive that is operating properly), is the ability to bulk-restore from RD. The latter takes about a second per recovered item, which is still fast.

I once quickly bulk-cleared RD, then used KMTTG to nearly instantly bulk-send all the recordings of a half-full 3TB drive drive to RD. I was then rather quickly able to bulk-recover all of them, clearing-away any KUID flags from recordings, bringing the TiVo ecosystem to a much better state.

Other than watching what in on my TiVo, there are very few operations that I use my TiVo to do anymore. KMTTG is just so much easier, once you get past the minimal learning curve.

I also found that I can run two instances of KMTTG, and put the windows (each one displaying a different TiVo) side-by-side, making it easy to do a great deal of things quickly, in one sitting, rather than spending hours/days running around to multiple TiVos.

I was able to identify a problem drive by comparing the time it took the same number of operations to process between three TiVos. Pulling that drive for testing with a PC proved it was a slower-operating drive (non-acceptable read timings).

I've spent at least 30 hours over a few days digging into non-marketing information on drive technologies and feature set standards. I have a long way to go, and am taking a break to insure I'm retaining what I should be.

So, more to come, if my head doesn't explode first. I'll probably make my own thread for that, to try and stop diluting/congesting other threads.
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:19 PM   #47
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On top of the quick bulk deletion of RD contents (happens instantly on an uncorrupted drive that is operating properly), is the ability to bulk-restore from RD. The latter takes about a second per recovered item, which is still fast.

I once quickly bulk-cleared RD, then used KMTTG to nearly instantly bulk-send all the recordings of a half-full 3TB drive drive to RD. I was then rather quickly able to bulk-recover all of them, clearing-away any KUID flags from recordings, bringing the TiVo ecosystem to a much better state.

Other than watching what in on my TiVo, there are very few operations that I use my TiVo to do anymore. KMTTG is just so much easier, once you get past the minimal learning curve.

I also found that I can run two instances of KMTTG, and put the windows (each one displaying a different TiVo) side-by-side, making it easy to do a great deal of things quickly, in one sitting, rather than spending hours/days running around to multiple TiVos.

I was able to identify a problem drive by comparing the time it took the same number of operations to process between three TiVos. Pulling that drive for testing with a PC proved it was a slower-operating drive (non-acceptable read timings).

I've spent at least 30 hours over a few days digging into non-marketing information on drive technologies and feature set standards. I have a long way to go, and am taking a break to insure I'm retaining what I should be.

So, more to come, if my head doesn't explode first. I'll probably make my own thread for that, to try and stop diluting/congesting other threads.
To use KMTTG on a Windows 7 desktop computer do I need any other software like TiVo desktop software ??
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:13 PM   #48
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I just installed it and the only thing you need is 32 bit Java. It does help if you make a shortcut to run it as an administrator. Making javaw.exe to run as administrator did not work well for me when trying to install kmttg service. Plus I did not want it to run as an administrator for all Java programs.
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Old 07-11-2014, 12:59 AM   #49
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I just installed it and the only thing you need is 32 bit Java. It does help if you make a shortcut to run it as an administrator. Making javaw.exe to run as administrator did not work well for me when trying to install kmttg service. Plus I did not want it to run as an administrator for all Java programs.
I just installed it also, works great, will have to look at all the options but deleting the delete folder was easy. I had no Java problems
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Old 07-11-2014, 07:24 AM   #50
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I just installed it also, works great, will have to look at all the options but deleting the delete folder was easy. I had no Java problems
FYI: Besides the program itself, there's a KMTTG service that I have found no need to have running (it's optional), if you aren't looking to automate downloading and processing of recordings. There's also an optional tools package full of codecs and processing tools that can be left-out if you want the smallest footprint.

The best place to ask questions and get advice is here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=387725
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Old 07-11-2014, 07:32 AM   #51
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FYI: Besides the program itself, there's a KMTTG service that I have found no need to have running (it's optional), if you aren't looking to automate downloading and processing of recordings. There's also an optional tools package full of codecs and processing tools that can be left-out if you want the smallest footprint.

The best place to ask questions and get advice is here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=387725
Thanks for the info and link. The service is what I needed administrative privileges to install, start, stop.
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:22 PM   #52
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Thanks for the info and link. The service is what I needed administrative privileges to install, start, stop.
No problem. Something else anybody new/returning-to using KMTTG needs to know is that each TiVo needs to have the Settings & Messages> Settings> Remote, CableCARD, & Devices> Network Remote Control option set to "Allow network-based remote controls", as opposed to the default of "Do not allow", IIRC.

Like many others, I'm cautious of what I'll install, mostly due to how deep some things get their hooks into the Windows ecosystem, and how many startup services they add (Like TiVo Desktop). When I finally tried, it didn't take long for me to realize how much easier it makes things, and that calling it a "replacement or alternative to TD/TDP" just doesn't do it justice. If it could push files to TiVos without relying on PyTiVo, and queue-up TiVo->TiVo transfers, it would be the one true TiVo "Swiss army knife". I still see a lot of people who are not willing to trust it, or just refuse to try it. That's a shame (for them), which I didn't take long to realize myself.

The only issues I have ever had with it were related to some Java updates that crippled it (and some other things requiring Java). Other reported problems are usually due to outdated Java versions, and/or not keeping KMTTG updated (used to require effort, now has check for update function), that network remote setting, TiVo mind/middlemind server issues (or something TiVo breaks with an update), and/or failing to enter the TiVo account login name/password (required for some functions that access TiVo's servers).

Note of caution: KMTTG remembers what TiVo each function tab was last used for, within and between sessions, requiring the user to pay attention to what TiVo is selected when switching between function tabs, or one could apply an operation to the wrong TiVo. I still make this error, which is why I don't allow others in my home to use it. I don't want careless use to mess up my TiVo with an operation they intend for another.

Applying a function to multiple TiVos is as easy as leaving the same function highlighted, selecting another TiVo, and pressing one button to apply the same function.

The functions that help keep this thread-drift partially on-topic are how KMTTG can back up SP lists, which can be restored to any TiVo (in the exact order they are listed, and regardless of having any guide entries), and backup/restore other things. This makes it a must-have tool for those changing a drive (upgrading, or replacing a failed drive).

I applaud telemark and the other members, who made the "4TB Roamio Image community edition" project this thread is for, possible and available. For all the work and effort involved, there's not much on-topic content here. I still see a great deal of posts around the forum stating that 3TB is still the maximum true DIY size, and that weaknees is the only way to get 4TB. The news that this option exists, isn't travelling fast, or far, AFAICT. Perhaps somebody should consider reaching out to the mods/admins to allow signatures with the news and a link to this thread...

OTOH, anything that helps keep this thread fresh in the New Posts list, increases awareness of it.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:37 AM   #53
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Is the 4tb image ready for prime time yet? Has the Windows prep been worked out? I'm not a Linux guy but at the worse will a Linux boot CD work at the least ?
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:10 AM   #54
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Is the 4tb image ready for prime time yet? Has the Windows prep been worked out? I'm not a Linux guy but at the worse will a Linux boot CD work at the least ?
Image is fine. I have a few downloads, and 0 complaints.

There's a VHD file, that's hypothetically for Windows. But as far as I know nobody has confirmed an imager that's known working with it.

It is known for the dedicated, that iBored, tar, and gzip could be used.

Linux Boot CD's work fine. I've tested knoppix myself.
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:58 PM   #55
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I created a VHD but the restore process takes hours as it restores the whole 2TB image to the drive. I do not have anything that ignores the zeroed out sectors as that is what most of the image is. Best bet is use the Knoppix CD or in Windows use iBored to write the images to the pertinent areas of the drive. You will be done in less than 10 minutes.
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:59 PM   #56
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I use command 'wget --no-check-certificate "http://tiny.cc/c6r5gxA/autoinstall.pl"' because without command --no-check-certificate, it shows error: the certificate of 'dl.dropboxusercontent.com' is not trusted and error: the certificate of 'dl.dropboxusercontent.com' hasn't got a known issuer.

But each time, I use command chmod +x autoinstall.pl and ./autoinstall.pl, it will show the same error: the certificate of 'dl.dropboxusercontent.com' is not trusted and error: the certificate of 'dl.dropboxusercontent.com' hasn't got a known issuer.
What should I do to solve this problem?
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:24 PM   #57
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I use command 'wget --no-check-certificate "http://tiny.cc/c6r5gxA/autoinstall.pl"' because without command --no-check-certificate, it shows error: the certificate of 'dl.dropboxusercontent.com' is not trusted and error: the certificate of 'dl.dropboxusercontent.com' hasn't got a known issuer.
Something's causing a HTTP to HTTPS redirect, give me a few minutes to test it.

What OS are you using?
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:25 PM   #58
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Something's causing a HTTP to HTTPS redirect, give me a few minutes to test it.

What OS are you using?
Knoppix Live DVD 7.2.0
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Old 07-27-2014, 11:15 PM   #59
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Knoppix Live DVD 7.2.0
Dropbox must have changed their backend, cause I know I tested that version before.

In any case, I edited the script to skip the internal SSL check, so if you start from the beginning, it should not be a show stopper anymore.

Thank you for reporting it.

Last edited by telemark : 07-27-2014 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:09 PM   #60
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Dropbox must have changed their backend, cause I know I tested that version before.

In any case, I edited the script to skip the internal SSL check, so if you start from the beginning, it should not be a show stopper anymore.

Thank you for reporting it.
Thank you very for your help. It's working perfectly right now.
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