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Old 08-07-2014, 09:20 PM   #331
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Did they show Hayes modems? I don't remember seeing ATDT commands either.. but I seem to remember that I didn't freeze on one of the computer screens..

One other thing I forgot to mention was that they did a couple of time jumps in this episode that weren't really obvious at first. While I agree that sometimes a show can hit you over the head too much, this jumped months (?) a few times, and was only obvious minutes later after they discussed something that happened "in the past" (that we jumped over).
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:31 PM   #332
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Did they show Hayes modems? I don't remember seeing ATDT commands either.. but I seem to remember that I didn't freeze on one of the computer screens..
They did show a Hayes modem, I believe only once. I don't remember seeing any AT commands.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:17 AM   #333
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One other thing I forgot to mention was that they did a couple of time jumps in this episode that weren't really obvious at first. While I agree that sometimes a show can hit you over the head too much, this jumped months (?) a few times, and was only obvious minutes later after they discussed something that happened "in the past" (that we jumped over).
Yes, this episode took place over the course of many months. The previous episode at Comdex took place in November 1983. Then this episode started in December 83 when we saw Gordon and Donna with a Christmas tree in their house. Then it jumped to January 23, 1984 when Joe had just taped the Super Bowl the night before and somebody made the comment about needing six weeks to get the shipment of prototypes. Then we saw them receive the shipment of prototypes so that was apparently six weeks later and then we saw them with the full shipment ready to go to the customer, so that was probably several weeks or even a couple months after the prototypes were received. And then the final scenes with Gordon running the company without Joe appeared to be several months after the truck was torched. So overall, this episode may have taken place over anywhere from 5 to 10 months.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:11 AM   #334
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Yes, this episode took place over the course of many months. The previous episode at Comdex took place in November 1983. Then this episode started in December 83 when we saw Gordon and Donna with a Christmas tree in their house. Then it jumped to January 23, 1984 when Joe had just taped the Super Bowl the night before and somebody made the comment about needing six weeks to get the shipment of prototypes. Then we saw them receive the shipment of prototypes so that was apparently six weeks later and then we saw them with the full shipment ready to go to the customer, so that was probably several weeks or even a couple months after the prototypes were received. And then the final scenes with Gordon running the company without Joe appeared to be several months after the truck was torched. So overall, this episode may have taken place over anywhere from 5 to 10 months.
Speaking of taping the Super Bowl. Perhaps on not remembering the time correctly, but, he referred to taping the Super Bowl on his VHS. I thought by then VHS had pretty much won the war with betamax and we simply just referred to them as VCRs? I don't recall anyone calling it a "VHS". It was about the time I bought my first VHS VCR, maybe a few months later. I know I had it to record the 1984 Olympics (still have the tapes!).
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:30 PM   #335
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So, what's next?


If there is a season two, do we see Cameron created "Facebook"?
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:24 AM   #336
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Well, the video format wars were resolved by 1984, but there was still a huge installed base of Beta players and recorders so while the format was dying, it wasn't dead.

So using VHS would be appropriate - plus I think that term was used instead of VCR until the 90s or so purely because Beta stuff was still being cleared out.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:49 AM   #337
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Well, the video format wars were resolved by 1984, but there was still a huge installed base of Beta players and recorders so while the format was dying, it wasn't dead.

So using VHS would be appropriate - plus I think that term was used instead of VCR until the 90s or so purely because Beta stuff was still being cleared out.
My memory may be fading, but I don't recall anyone saying they recorded on VHS (and make a point about it, unless it was with their snooty, early adopter friend ) I think by that time, we just say we recorded it and didn't make the point of it being VHS. I'm thinking here, the writers were just trying to make the point that they were using VHS as opposed to how it was. (Much like saying Dee Eee Cee for DEC, which nobody said in the day.

By the time I bought my VHS
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:15 AM   #338
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My memory may be fading, but I don't recall anyone saying they recorded on VHS (and make a point about it, unless it was with their snooty, early adopter friend ) I think by that time, we just say we recorded it and didn't make the point of it being VHS. I'm thinking here, the writers were just trying to make the point that they were using VHS as opposed to how it was. (Much like saying Dee Eee Cee for DEC, which nobody said in the day.

By the time I bought my VHS
Gordon is a tech person, it wouldn't have been out of line for him to have a VHS and Beta VCR, I can certainly see him saying " I recorded it on the VHS" to Donna, and I can see young scriptwriters who have never owned a VCR writing the line thinking they were doing a good thing.


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Old 08-10-2014, 10:20 AM   #339
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Gordon is a tech person, it wouldn't have been out of line for him to have a VHS and Beta VCR, I can certainly see him saying " I recorded it on the VHS" to Donna, and I can see young scriptwriters who have never owned a VCR writing the line thinking they were doing a good thing.

But it was Joe who recorded it and said it to Gordon.

At least that's how I remember it, my memory isn't what it used to be so I could be mistaken.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:58 PM   #340
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...I think there were TWO technical nitpicks I saw in this episode. (Remember, I realize it's fiction... but my take is they've been _reasonably_ consistent with real history except for their new machine/OS.)

I don't think 2400 bits/second modems were common in the timeframe of this show (1984). In my very simplistic searching of wikipedia, I couldn't find ratification dates of the standards.. But I did find this:


I think it was a 2400 bits/second modem that I got as a high school graduation present in 1987.. and that was after they had become somewhat cheaper.. So MAYBE they were available before that, but I don't think so.

You did hear modem sounds in the episode, and they ALSO talked about "9600 baud" and such. I won't nitpick the bits/s vs baud technical correctness issue, but they COULD have been talking about serial port bandwidth or somesuch. (I think not, since they were basically talking about CompuServe, etc..)

That's the only one that I remember that stuck out..
You get kudos from me for the bps vd. BAUD fact. They all are 1200bps.

I bought a USR Courier 2400 around 1985, and that led to me working at USR.

2400 was pretty much a direct speed bump from 1200. 9600 was a stretch, and 56K, which never was 56K, was the mutiny from USR.

Not to mention that the modem technology came from the research and development at U.S. Robotics, Telebit and Hayes, not from such as Southwestern Bell and, and BTW, phone company supervisors don't put their desk in the NOISY data center, much less directly in front of the NOISY Liebert air conditioner.

One thrill I had was John Bosworth pretty much getting right the vector for a dial-up hack, "You could Control-C break out and be in a session in an account with all kinds of useful privileges and KERMIT..."

The show was way too much of a writing loop: "Cameron wants to innovate. Joe and/or Gordon make her back off. Joe wants to innovate. Gordon makes him back off. They innovate. They back the innovations out. They pout."
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:03 PM   #341
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So, what's next?
If there is a season two, do we see Cameron created "Facebook"?
Per the usual technical garf, they may be leaning for Cameron to have created CompuServe or AOL, neither of which came to be that way.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:08 PM   #342
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... and somebody made the comment about needing six weeks to get the shipment of prototypes. Then we saw them receive the shipment of prototypes so that was apparently six weeks later and then we saw them with the full shipment ready to go to the customer, so that was probably several weeks or even a couple months after the prototypes were received. And then the final scenes with Gordon running the company without Joe appeared to be several months after the truck was torched. So overall, this episode may have taken place over anywhere from 5 to 10 months.
AND the shipment of 1000s of Giants to Computerland would not come from the Cardiff offices. They were made by a vendor.

At the end of my catching up binge I 30% felt I would like that time of my life back.

The show was obviously low budget - with all cheap interior sets - and and low quality writing. Only the tech nostalgia and pretty women kept me watching.
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Old 08-10-2014, 10:15 PM   #343
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You get kudos from me for the bps vd. BAUD fact. They all are 1200bps.

I bought a USR Courier 2400 around 1985, and that led to me working at USR.

2400 was pretty much a direct speed bump from 1200. 9600 was a stretch, and 56K, which never was 56K, was the mutiny from USR.
I too worked for USR, so I need to clarify. 56K was 56K, just not for U.S. to U.S. connections. But it did work at 56K in some countries.
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:41 AM   #344
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Did they show Hayes modems? I don't remember seeing ATDT commands either.. but I seem to remember that I didn't freeze on one of the computer screens..
Hayes modem yes, lights are wrong on it since it should be online and thus have CD and possible TX/RX lights lit showing transmission in progress.

2400 sound is wrong - the actual modem negotiation you heard was a 56k modem connecting. The easy way to tell that is only 56k modems do the distinctive double ping-pong as each end tests impulse response (since the equalization is often asymmetric) followed by a level and band test to see how much pre-emphasis is needed. The goal is to basically figure out the phone line so the perfect signal arrives at the telephone company (where it's converted to digital and hauled to the other end as a pure digital signal). The other end does the same.

At 33.6k and below, the negotiations were basically just a bunch of line noise (done at 300bps - when it goes quiet is when the modems switch to higher speed modulation). 56k was the top you could have due to bit-robbing at the telephone company and to get that required the modem to precisely identify the line.

(Personally, I had a USR v.Everything Courier modem - bought it as a 28.8K modem, it retired as a 56k).
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:33 AM   #345
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Hayes modem yes, lights are wrong on it since it should be online and thus have CD and possible TX/RX lights lit showing transmission in progress.

2400 sound is wrong - the actual modem negotiation you heard was a 56k modem connecting. The easy way to tell that is only 56k modems do the distinctive double ping-pong as each end tests impulse response (since the equalization is often asymmetric) followed by a level and band test to see how much pre-emphasis is needed. The goal is to basically figure out the phone line so the perfect signal arrives at the telephone company (where it's converted to digital and hauled to the other end as a pure digital signal). The other end does the same.

At 33.6k and below, the negotiations were basically just a bunch of line noise (done at 300bps - when it goes quiet is when the modems switch to higher speed modulation). 56k was the top you could have due to bit-robbing at the telephone company and to get that required the modem to precisely identify the line.

(Personally, I had a USR v.Everything Courier modem - bought it as a 28.8K modem, it retired as a 56k).
I knew the modem sounds were wrong. While I've never worked for a modem company, I ran a computer BBS and used modems for other work related things and the sound of modems became second nature to me, I could tell almost immediately if the modem was having connection issues just by listening to it. 2400 modems and blow would connect within a couple of seconds, 56k which that sounded like to me as well, definitely handshaked as you described and took 5 or 6 seconds to connect.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:01 PM   #346
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Yeah, the fine art of diagnosing modem connections based upon handshake is getting to be a lost art.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:28 PM   #347
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Yeah, petitions (esp online ones) rarely do anything.. but heck..
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/253/6...w-this-season/
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:59 PM   #348
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Yeah, petitions (esp online ones) rarely do anything.. but heck..
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/253/6...w-this-season/
I never understood how are the petitions deliver and how do petitions sites like this make any money (clearly they are doing this to make money)?
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:29 AM   #349
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Yeah, the fine art of diagnosing modem connections based upon handshake is getting to be a lost art.
Hell, I always knew when I had a bad phone line just from the way the modem handshake went. And over time, I knew how the phone line should perform - always funny when I saw it connect at a speed higher than what I knew it could handle (it would connect at 53k, but I knew the lines could handle maybe 46k) which would be true when I finish logging in and discover that the modem was retraining again.

Sometimes it got so bad that the modem could do nothing but give up and drop the line.

Anyhow, I think Joe is looking for a legacy. When the Giant ended up being just another PC compatible without a "killer app" or the "friendly OS", well, that's just a footnote. No one would remember it in a few years. But if it had a killer app or a friendly OS that was different, well, people would be talking about it for years down the road. I mean, think about the Mac - it didn't matter that few people owned one (only 1 in 10), but everyone knows it.

Well, same thing happens with Joe McMillan - he made a great portable computer, but in the end, it's just a PC. Nothing special. So he set fire to the truck like he set fire to the datacenter - in the end, the project was done, the product was complete, but there's nothing noteworthy. I mean, he didn't want to get rid of the friendly OS, and he wanted to ship a killer app. But neither happened.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:31 AM   #350
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this sums up the series for me - so much potential, wasted on overly dramatic backstabbing...i can't remember such an unnecessarily antagonistic cast.
I agree 100%!

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Old 08-13-2014, 08:22 PM   #351
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I'm guessing why the weirdness with "Gordon" shaving the beard.
My guess: When they knew the show wasn't going to be picked up for another season, they brought the cast back to shoot some final scenes.

"Gordon" the actor, musta shaved the beard. If you recall, it went kinda strange where a bearded Gordon asked Donna how he looked in the suit, cut to: Gordon at the dinner sans Beard. Methinks they had the first scene in the can and added the shaved version so they could shoot Gordon alone running Cardiff. This show is so low budget they probably didn't even contemplate giving Gordon a fake beard.

ALSO Gordon is the annoying neighbor on those new Don't Touch my (Dodge) Dart commercials. (HINT: He's the white guy.) And on those, has starts off with no beard in the one they set up with the Dart in the garage, but he has a beard in the later commercial with the bird house!

Make up your mind, dude. Maybe he has the beard or not bases on auditions he's doing, but those commercials pay so well he should abide. I'll bet he makes more for those commercials than for Halt and Catch Fire season.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:27 PM   #352
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I'm guessing why the weirdness with "Gordon" shaving the beard.
My guess: When they knew the show wasn't going to be picked up for another season, they brought the cast back to shoot some final scenes.

"Gordon" the actor, musta shaved the beard. If you recall, it went kinda strange where a bearded Gordon asked Donna how he looked in the suit, cut to: Gordon at the dinner sans Beard. Methinks they had the first scene in the can and added the shaved version so they could shoot Gordon alone running Cardiff. This show is so low budget they probably didn't even contemplate giving Gordon a fake beard.
No, you missed something in there. Gordon was trying to look suave and sophisticated for the party. He came out in the suit and wasn't satisfied with how he looked. For the whole season up until then, he'd been the shlubby engineer while Joe was the slick, stylish face of the company. So Gordon decided he wanted to stop being the shlubby engineer and wanted to start being the slick executive. So he tells Donna, "Give me ten minutes." Then they cut to the party where he's clean shaven.
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:08 PM   #353
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<SNIP>
ALSO Gordon is the annoying neighbor on those new Don't Touch my (Dodge) Dart commercials. (HINT: He's the white guy.) And on those, has starts off with no beard in the one they set up with the Dart in the garage, but he has a beard in the later commercial with the bird house!
Nope, unless there's a Dart commercial I haven't seen (possible), the annoying neighbor is one of the actors from New Girl. I've seen two or three variations and they all had the same two actors.

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Old 08-14-2014, 03:48 PM   #354
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Nope, unless there's a Dart commercial I haven't seen (possible), the annoying neighbor is one of the actors from New Girl. I've seen two or three variations and they all had the same two actors.

LH
Yes, if we're talking about this commercial:

Dodge Dart Commercial


then that's definitely Jake Johnson and not Scoot McNairy.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:25 AM   #355
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is the show canceled? I haven't heard either way. It finally got interesting at the end. I got really sick of the relationship stuff.
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Old 08-18-2014, 10:44 AM   #356
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is the show canceled? I haven't heard either way. It finally got interesting at the end. I got really sick of the relationship stuff.
Not cancelled and not renewed....still waiting to hear.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:38 PM   #357
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How did it end?
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:45 PM   #358
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How did it end?
Stupidly.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:30 PM   #359
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I thought it ended entertainingly!
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:36 AM   #360
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It ended with a bunch of unresolved threads - Cameron's company, Cameron's interactions with the phone company, Joe's trip to the mountains, what's the next product, no one wondering about the missing shipment, etc.

It ends like it was 0.75 of a season - the main thread's been resolved, but there's still so many more.
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