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Old 05-04-2014, 06:33 PM   #1
2004raptor
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Does anyone use a roamio (or a mini) with a switch?

I've run into a situation and was curious if anyone has been successful connecting a roamio to their network via Ethernet cable and a switch (no Moca).
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:37 PM   #2
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Yes, I do. Before we moved I had no problem getting MOCA to work. But when we moved to this apartment I just couldn't get it working. I tried using powerline connectors, but had limited success. I am able to get one of them working, but when I try to run two of them I have problems with the Minis.

So right now I have one running off the powerline and one with a direct ethernet wire. Both of those are run through a gigibit ethernet switch. My Roamio is also run into the same switch. The only time I have an issue is if I'm using the telephone, which is VOIP.
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:55 PM   #3
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I guess I should have asked in my original post. If you do have a switch that works for roamio/minis would you mind sharing the make/model #.

Hopefully we can make a list of a few that work to maybe save some headaches down the road.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:07 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by 2004raptor View Post
I've run into a situation and was curious if anyone has been successful connecting a roamio to their network via Ethernet cable and a switch (no Moca).
Are you having a problem with a switch or are you concerned of Tivo statement they don't support them?

Only time I seen problems with TiVo's and switches has been connecting a dumb switch to a managed switch, in that situation the dumb switch wouldn't connect as the managed switch was a Gb switch and the dumb one was just a 10/100.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:13 PM   #5
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I only have one switch and it's old and apparently dead. So, my quest for a new switch begins. If a cheap switch will work then I'll get one. But I'd love to know which models people have had success with.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:13 PM   #6
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Even though I have Verizon FiOS I don't use their router because I have no need to with Tivo. Instead I use the Roamio Plus as the bridge. Basically I have my Cat 5e coming in from the ONT to my main router, then one of those ethernet ports goes to my bonus room which has a switch in it. This is where I have my Roamio which bridges the ethernet and cable together. I have had no issues at all and the switch has worked great. It is a TP Link TL-SG108 8 port. It's on amazon for $30.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:40 PM   #7
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I use two on my network, a Netgear Prosafe GS105 and a Netgear Prosafe GS108, with a TiVO Roamio Pro plugged directly into the GS105. I haven't had any problems.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:47 PM   #8
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Thanks for the info. I may hit up a local store tomorrow and see what they have in stock. If I don't have any success I will probably order one of the above.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:59 PM   #9
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I use around fifteen Dlink Gigabit switches(8 port and 5 port-all unmanaged). Before I recently moved my TiVos to MoCA they were connected to some of these Gigbit switches and they worked fine on them.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:04 PM   #10
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I use a a linksys/cisco SE2500 switch which has my Roamio plus, Samsung TV, and Blu-ray player hooked into it. The switch then connects to another linksys/cisco SE2500 switch which is then connected to a Sonicwall NSA 240. The switch that is connected to the Sonicwall is also connected to an Apple Airport Extreme and two other computers in my wired network. I have two other Apple Airport Extremes that act as a wireless bridge to connect my two other entertainment areas. One with a Premiere XL, Blu-ray, and Sony tv and the other an OLED S3 and a Blu-ray. I have no problems streaming between any combo of TiVos and no problem streaming to my iPad in-house or out of the house. All the cabling in my network is either Cat 5e or Cat 6.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:47 PM   #11
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All of my TiVo's and mini's go through at least 2 switches and some 3 switches and have never had a problem with any of them.

I use the TP-Link TL-SG105 (5 ports) and TL-SG108 (8 ports).
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:50 PM   #12
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My Roamio hops through three switches, two of which are 10/100's that are about to get the hook... Netgear FS605 v2

I am finally getting around switching them over to Tp-link switches I picked up several months ago... 8 Port Gigabit, TL-SG108. Comcast just boosted me to 105 mbps service.... never though 100mb network would be a bottleneck!
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:52 PM   #13
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My Roamio Pro is connect through 2 switches actually. Roamio connects to a switch in the AV cabinet, which runs via CAT6 to the basement and connects to a switch there, which runs to the router. No problems whatsoever.
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:00 PM   #14
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Well, I guess I shouldn't listen to TiVo support. They told me their devices will not work through switches.

This all started after I ran the roamio through an access point. It worked fine except the mini was going through the main router directly and they wouldn't talk too well. I told the guy that I would just take that router out of ap mode and run it like a switch. He said it still wouldn't work.

Now I'm wondering if I should try it.
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:31 PM   #15
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I learned the hard way that "cheap" switches give you exactly what you pay for. Unless they honor priority tags, priority tagging/packets get stripped out, and all traffic gets treated equally.

The switch I'm posting a link to allows for both honoring and passing priority tagging, and also has the ability to assign priority based on each port (a manual way).

Best of all, it's on sale right now for 20 bucks. I've replaced every switch in my house with either ones that honor and pass the priority tags, or these (mostly at end-points):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...33122363-L018B

NETGEAR 5 Port Gigabit Desktop Switch (GS605AV)
Limit 2 per customer.

$59.99

$19.99
WITH PROMO CODE
EMCPFHA72
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Old 05-04-2014, 10:49 PM   #16
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ok, i got off my butt and put in the other two switches...


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Old 05-04-2014, 11:02 PM   #17
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I meant to add that myself I use a couple Nortel 5510 24 port switches but these are enterprise switches, I only use them because the are very cheap and Nortel switches are the brand I have supported for my employer for the last 20 years. Most people will find these total over kill as these are layer 3 IP routing switches, terrible energy burners but awesome management and diagnostics.
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Old 05-04-2014, 11:19 PM   #18
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I had some trouble with a mini and a Cisco 10/100/1000 switch. I gave up and used a different switch.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:58 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by 2004raptor View Post
Well, I guess I shouldn't listen to TiVo support. They told me their devices will not work through switches.

This all started after I ran the roamio through an access point. It worked fine except the mini was going through the main router directly and they wouldn't talk too well. I told the guy that I would just take that router out of ap mode and run it like a switch. He said it still wouldn't work.

Now I'm wondering if I should try it.
The biggest problem with residential switches is that the majority of them have no management. Unlike the simplest network diagnostics that the ethernet interfaces in the TiVo's can report, when you attach devices to an unmanaged switch you have no reporting of errors, data rates or anything. This is why Tivo takes the postion that "switches" are not supported.

If you are looking for a switch, the best solution is one that has some type of Web interface were you can monitor and even in some cases configure port speed. The biggest problem I have encountered is port speed mismatch esp in older ethernet interfaces and older ports for example if you are using a 10/100 mb ethernet switch, some 1gb ethernet devices attached to it may not be able to negotiate the speed correctly. I have seen a old netgear 10mb switch that if you attached a 1 Gb device to it, the link lights would light up, activity lights would blink but no communications would occur.

Another issue too when dealing with 1gb ethernet and switches, you must have some type of intelligence in monitoring the port otherwise you are running blind, a bad ethernet cable can be the problem just as I saw recently were someone was having a mini connection problems problem, they replaced everything including Tivo replacing the Mini until finally they replaced the cable to find the first one was bad.

Regardless, the majority of newer switches will work fine with Tivo products, Tivo takes the postion they do for support reasons as they have to draw the line in what they can support and what they can't in home data networks. On the same merit, all switches aren't created equally and you get what you pay for, managed is better. In this day and age, the built in 5 port switch on your router just won't hack it when you have 4 TiVo's, a couple pc's, a networked shared printer, and even perhaps a NAS. I have a larger than average consumer home network, my primary network has up to 20 nodes on it at any given time and I laughed at Tivo support when they told me that Tivo won't work on "switches", even if turned everything else off, I only have switched 5 ports built into my router and yet have at least 6 Tivo devices so there is no way I could use just the router port switch ports if I wanted to!
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2004raptor View Post
I've run into a situation and was curious if anyone has been successful connecting a roamio to their network via Ethernet cable and a switch (no Moca).

What sort of problem are you having? Since the spring update hit, I've had nothing but problems with one of my Minis connecting to my Roamio Pro. It had worked flawlessly for six months and now it works probably less than 50% of the time.

I thought I had narrowed it down to an issue where things were buggy if the Pro was on MoCa and the Mini was on Ethernet, but it seems to be a more subtle problem than that... I have three Minis, and two always work over MoCa regardless of if the Pro is on MoCa or Ethernet, but the Mini on Ethernet doesn't seem to reliably work at all. That's a new issue.

Might be unrelated to what you're seeing, but who knows ...
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:22 AM   #21
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What sort of problem are you having? Since the spring update hit, I've had nothing but problems with one of my Minis connecting to my Roamio Pro. It had worked flawlessly for six months and now it works probably less than 50% of the time.

I thought I had narrowed it down to an issue where things were buggy if the Pro was on MoCa and the Mini was on Ethernet, but it seems to be a more subtle problem than that... I have three Minis, and two always work over MoCa regardless of if the Pro is on MoCa or Ethernet, but the Mini on Ethernet doesn't seem to reliably work at all. That's a new issue.

Might be unrelated to what you're seeing, but who knows ...
Can you describe how your network is setup (Internet provider, Internet router, switch if not using built in switch ports on your router), etc? Also, what is bridging your ethernet into Moca, are you using the pro as the gateway with ethernet connected to the pro? do you have fios or do you have a dedicated Moca device like a actiontec moca adapter acting as the gateway?

Might be better to start a new thread rather than to crash this one unless you believe an external ethernet switch issue.

In the majority of situations, wired ethernet is usually more stable than Moca.
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:29 AM   #22
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Basic troubleshooting dictates that a replacement cable should be one of the first things you try. Not the last.
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:50 AM   #23
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Basic troubleshooting dictates that a replacement cable should be one of the first things you try. Not the last.
Very true,
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:15 AM   #24
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I think I have just some generic 5 port 10/100/1000 netgear switches I bought cheap on woot like 2 years ago and then the built-in switch on my AT&T leased router.

I never had a single mini-disconnect until very recently (after the latest update), but they are still fairly infrequent.
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:49 AM   #25
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I think I have just some generic 5 port 10/100/1000 netgear switches I bought cheap on woot like 2 years ago and then the built-in switch on my AT&T leased router.

I never had a single mini-disconnect until very recently (after the latest update), but they are still fairly infrequent.
(like it matters) but I just posted a message in the Tivo suggestions feature request, we need better network diagnostics, it's nuts to be struggling with these possible network issues when most have little if no display of how the Tivo home network is operating.

Right now we have little understanding if the problems we have are network faults or Tivo software.
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:50 AM   #26
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I just grabbed 2 different switches. One is an 8 port Linksys, the other an 8 port netgear.. It'll be late tonight before I have a chance to hook them up, so we'll see.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:36 PM   #27
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Netgear has some reasonably-priced switches that allow cable diagnostics via web-browser or via PC-installed software (you pretty-much have to choose one or the other, and some of them require the PC you use for this have a direct-line into the switch).

I would like to think TiVo's alleged remarks about "not supporting switches", are their support-bots confusing HDMI switches with network switches.

I agree with a recent post about people using dumb-as-a-rock network switches, (that obviously don't even honor QoS/Priority tags), and also don't have built-in cable diagnostics. I added the part about the QoS/Priority tags.

I bit the bullet, and yanked out all my almost-new gigabit Trendnet switches, in favor of ones that honor QoS/Priority tags, and a central one that does that, plus does cable diagnostics.

It was well worth the money, as all my networking performance improved, once I had all the switches out that didn't specify "IEEE 802.1p priority tags", as being honored/supported.

The improvements:
Better TiVo experience
Better VoIP experience
Better computer-based experience
Better streaming-based experience
And more...
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:07 PM   #28
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I don't know what my Dlinks GigE unmanaged switches are, but I've never had any problem getting 900mbps+ throughput with them. And they work well with my 60+ network devices at home.

But now all my Minis and Roamio Pro are using MoCA and connected to one of my Dlink GigE switches with an Actiontec MoCA adoter with four GigE ports.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:35 PM   #29
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I don't know what my Dlinks GigE unmanaged switches are, but I've never had any problem getting 900mbps+ throughput with them. And they work well with my 60+ network devices at home.

But now all my Minis and Roamio Pro are using MoCA and connected to one of my Dlink GigE switches with an Actiontec MoCA adoter with four GigE ports.
It's not always about raw speed. Latency is the root of many issues. Your switches may have supported priority tags. There's no guarantee that even expensive switches have the feature. It's up to the buyer/owner to check the specs on a product. I've spotted a few switches that most would call "cheap", that honor priority tags. It might have used to be a given, then some products may have made a choice to take it out of their budget models, explaining why some of us never heard of it before.

MoCA is a different standard, and could be compared to a subnet/segment. I'd guess it is optimized more for latency, than raw speed, given that it was designed for a pretty specific usage.

The most advanced ways of optimizing QoS and priority traffic involve subnets/segments/VLANS/etc. I have some switches that are "unmanaged", but allow configuration of these network optimizing subsets.

I've seen examples of this with wireless products, which allow for allocating the 5GHz band for A/V traffic, and applying "A/V optimizations".

Net neutrality within the home (all traffic being treated equal), used to be a complete "non-issue". As more A/V streaming becomes part of the traffic, and VoIP becomes more commonplace, traffic QoS/priority/basic-management becomes more and more desirable in home networks.
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:25 PM   #30
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I can't dispute that having QOS active appears to help your home network however Tivo does not implement any interaction with QOS tagging, they simply aren't that advanced.

As far as someone getting 900 mbps with unmanaged switches and questioning why TiVo's can't come remotely close to such, such is simply not remotely possible with TiVo's as there isn't enough processor power to put that much data across the network interface. TiVo's in terms of network throughput are as about advanced as a 1995 PC with a 10 mb ethernet interface, you do understand that there is a major difference between mbps and mbs? While series 5 Roamio TiVo's can transfer much faster than any other Tivo before them, Tivo dvrs were never designed with networking in mind, they are engineered to process video decoding and processing, file transfer was an afterthought.

The two reasons that Roamio Plus and pro have Gb ethernet is for one the chipset availability and they are designed to handle multiple 100mb clients. Unknown to most logically, a third reason is that the ethernet port on the plus & pro is technically part of 1gb switched port and not the direct interface to a single Gb ethernet interface. Internally the Roamio Plus and pro shares the actual ethernet, Stream and Moca interfaces connected internally (all shared) and the fourth port is the external connection that you connect to your network. From a design point of view, this why the Roamio basic only has 10/100 ethernet as it's interface is a direct Nic and not part of a shared ethernet switch. When you connect your Roamio Plus or PRO to your home network switch, this is in fact a second switched connection.
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