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Old 05-03-2014, 03:30 PM   #1
phaedruspress
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Definitive Answer (First Hand Knowledge) To This Question?

I started this thread some months back:

First Time Potential DVR Owner Question
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...=phaedruspress

and participated in this one:

Roamio HArd Drive Recommnedations
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...=phaedruspress

...and a few of the responses to my question believed that this was possible but I would like to nail this down and ask anyone if they in fact have been able to do this without consequences or problems.

1. Purchase the TiVo Roamio with the 500GB hard drive.
2. Fill it up and then remove it and replace it with a 3TB hard drive.
3. Afterwards I want to be able to swap out the 3TB and the 500GB hard drive at will without any consequences.
4. Has anyone actually done this?
5. When swapping hard drives the DVR is not going to think that the "other" drive is "new" and try and format it. will it?
6. I would also possibly like to remove content from the 3TB hard drive (I would use an external docking station attached to the computer) should I choose to and archive it on an external hard drive and then again if I choose to write it back to the 3TB and pop the 3TB back into the DVR and view that content without consequences.

So...does anyone have any real world experience being able to do any of the things that I would like to do? TIA.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:40 PM   #2
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Items 3 and 6 will fail. The original drive will have dated information for program schedules, your season passes, etc.

When you remove a hard drive from TiVo and connect it to a computer running any version of Windows or OS X the computer will say "WTF?", indicate it can not read the drive, and most likely offer to parition and format the drive.

To get content off TiVo:

1) Do not be a Time Warner customer (no transfers of anything)
2) Realize many programs will not be eligible for transfer if you are a Cable TV customer
3) Use KMTTG to download eligible files to your PC while the drive is still installed
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Old 05-03-2014, 10:03 PM   #3
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These are good questions and Steve, I think you misunderstood what he wants to do. We need someone who has actually done this - but what I would expect to happen?

It should work fine, although you would have no guide data on the "new" drive. You would have to force a connection and pull down any updates since the last time that drive used.

Has anyone tried this?
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:23 AM   #4
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Pretty sure if you're using a cable card you'll have to re-pair each time you swap the drives out.

Not 100% sure on this part but one of those ID's that you have to read over the phone to the cable company when pairing is randomly generated when a new drive is installed. That ID gets configured into your account at the cable co. So as you swap the drives in and out that ID will have to be updated at the cable co each time.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:37 AM   #5
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Unless you're building some kind of hard drive tray into your TiVo, what the original poster is describing seems like it really would have very little benefit. Why not swap out the 500GB for the 3TB then put the 500GB into an external USB enclosure.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
These are good questions and Steve, I think you misunderstood what he wants to do. We need someone who has actually done this - but what I would expect to happen?

It should work fine, although you would have no guide data on the "new" drive. You would have to force a connection and pull down any updates since the last time that drive used.

Has anyone tried this?
Yes, I am looking for someone who has actually done this and can advise. Where do you suggest I go to ask this question if i do not get anyone who can help me here. Is there another forum here you suggest I post to or is that bad form to post the same question on different forums.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:52 AM   #7
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snip

Quote:
Originally Posted by tchapin View Post
Unless you're building some kind of hard drive tray into your TiVo, what the original poster is describing seems like it really would have very little benefit. Why not swap out the 500GB for the 3TB then put the 500GB into an external USB enclosure.
Swapping the 500 and the 3TB back and forth is not necessarily the point and perhaps I should have worded that differently. It's the procedure that I am asking about and any and all ramifications.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:55 AM   #8
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You may just have to try it... I think it will work, but I am not sure you are going to find any first hand experience.
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:15 AM   #9
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Use TiVo Desktop or KMTTG to offload recordings for more storage. Then just transfer them back to the TiVo when you want to watch them.
Or get the 8TB solution from Weaknees for the most storage available on the TiVo.
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:19 AM   #10
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The short version is no, you cannot directly extract the video from a TiVo hard drive, nor write video data to the drive, by plugging it into a computer. So your number 6 would definitely fail.
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:34 AM   #11
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You can exchange the drives back and forth after each has been configured for your Roamio, nothing changes and your Roamio will recognize each drive were ever it last saw it.

As far as extracting recordings from the drives once removed, it is not possible.

Not exactly sure what the op is attempting to accomplish, if you want first hand knowledge, try it your self and you will understand the process better.



<edit>
I will add, as I had to back and read your other messages, the only way to extract or add video content to any Tivo model is over a data network using the Tivo Desktop program or the third party pyTivo. Due to copyright restrictions, the raw access to hard drive data is encrypted and can not be accessed by any known public tools (Tivo Corp might have something but if they do its not available to the public), to others were no copying is permitted.

As explained, Tivo honors the restrictions the cable provider sets which is copy restriction standard set by Cable Labs. These restrictions as described vary from cable provider and can be as liberal as mine once was were prior to January 1st 2014, I could copy any content from my TiVo's to my Pc's using the network (expect that of Amazon and cable company PPV).

Unfortunately, the cable Labs organization has terribly crippled the means to archive and copy recorded content thus in many areas disabling the Tivo desktop and pyTivo option for practical everything. As the past Tivo model was based on the concept of copying content from from one Tivo to another and having multiple Tivo in every room was the standard, the new design is to have a central Tivo with multiple Mini's which stream the content from the central Tivo thus getting around the problem of not being able to transfer recordings. The Tivo desktop and pyTivo programs simulate a Tivo to act as as target to copy content between the real Tivo and the PC simulated Tivo which is why they even work in the first place.

While many blame Tivo for losing the ability to transfer content, the true blame is with the cable companies and the Cable Labs organization that Tivo has no choice but to work with as they are the middle man not the top dog that makes the decisions. They depend on the availability of cable cards and should those become unavailable, Tivo as a company would cease to exist.

Due to the fact that Tivo has been as consumer friendly as possible, all tools, procedures to expand, copy and backup Tivo hard drives has been developed privately by private individuals reverse engineering Tivo technology, it has had no support by Tivo thus such is why you can't call Tivo for assitance in replacing your 500mb drive with a 3tb drive.

Does this better answer your questions?
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Last edited by eboydog : 05-04-2014 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
You may just have to try it... I think it will work, but I am not sure you are going to find any first hand experience.
I have also been remiss in not mentioning that I do not have service yet so I am unable to try it. One of the sticking points for me before getting the service and purchasing the Roamio was that I could exchange hard drives when ever I wanted and archive what ever I wanted without any problems. In the end if no first hand knowledge confirms what I want to do exactly I will then just go ahead and give it a go. Oh, and to add to the mix I will be using Cox service which I have briefly read may come with it's own set problems
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaedruspress View Post
I have also been remiss in not mentioning that I do not have service yet so I am unable to try it. One of the sticking points for me before getting the service and purchasing the Roamio was that I could exchange hard drives when ever I wanted and archive what ever I wanted without any problems. In the end if no first hand knowledge confirms what I want to do exactly I will then just go ahead and give it a go. Oh, and to add to the mix I will be using Cox service which I have briefly read may come with it's own set problems
I don't know why you want to keep changing drives, I have done this in Comcast area Hartford CT (for a totally different reason) and the cable cards stayed paired, YMMV. The best thing you can do is use a computer to move the movable programs off your 3Tb drive, and you can put them back on another time, but why go back to the 500Gb drive, what does that gain you? and it is work, as you have to disconnect the Roamio and take it apart then put it back together and re-connect the cables. The program move to your PC is you best and only real option.
As stated above you can not get anything off any TiVo drive if it is not re-installed in the same TiVo it came from, if the drive has the Roamio software partitions it will not re-format the drive but if the TSN don't match you will have to do a C&D all.
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eboydog View Post
You can exchange the drives back and forth after each has been configured for your Roamio, nothing changes and your Roamio will recognize each drive were ever it last saw it.

As far as extracting recordings from the drives once removed, it is not possible.

Not exactly sure what the op is attempting to accomplish, if you want first hand knowledge, try it your self and you will understand the process better.



<edit>
I will add, as I had to back and read your other messages, the only way to extract or add video content to any Tivo model is over a data network using the Tivo Desktop program or the third party pyTivo. Due to copyright restrictions, the raw access to hard drive data is encrypted and can not be accessed by any known public tools (Tivo Corp might have something but if they do its not available to the public), to others were no copying is permitted.

As explained, Tivo honors the restrictions the cable provider sets which is copy restriction standard set by Cable Labs. These restrictions as described vary from cable provider and can be as liberal as mine once was were prior to January 1st 2014, I could copy any content from my TiVo's to my Pc's using the network (expect that of Amazon and cable company PPV).

Unfortunately, the cable Labs organization has terribly crippled the means to archive and copy recorded content thus in many areas disabling the Tivo desktop and pyTivo option for practical everything. As the past Tivo model was based on the concept of copying content from from one Tivo to another and having multiple Tivo in every room was the standard, the new design is to have a central Tivo with multiple Mini's which stream the content from the central Tivo thus getting around the problem of not being able to transfer recordings. The Tivo desktop and pyTivo programs simulate a Tivo to act as as target to copy content between the real Tivo and the PC simulated Tivo which is why they even work in the first place.

While many blame Tivo for losing the ability to transfer content, the true blame is with the cable companies and the Cable Labs organization that Tivo has no choice but to work with as they are the middle man not the top dog that makes the decisions. They depend on the availability of cable cards and should those become unavailable, Tivo as a company would cease to exist.

Due to the fact that Tivo has been as consumer friendly as possible, all tools, procedures to expand, copy and backup Tivo hard drives has been developed privately by private individuals reverse engineering Tivo technology, it has had no support by Tivo thus such is why you can't call Tivo for assitance in replacing your 500mb drive with a 3tb drive.

Does this better answer your questions?
You can exchange the drives back and forth after each has been configured for your Roamio, nothing changes and your Roamio will recognize each drive were ever it last saw it.

Have you done this (swapped drives back and forth) or know someone who has or is this what you believe is what will occur?

As explained, Tivo honors the restrictions the cable provider sets which is copy restriction standard set by Cable Labs.

Right I believe I became aware of this "Copy Once" which is the standard that Cox cable uses when I first posted a couple of months ago.

...the new design is to have a central Tivo with multiple Mini's...

Being not terribly familiar with anything other then an only rudimentary understanding of how a DVR works I am not sure that I get the different set ups that you are describing but it does not sound like something that I want. In fact I can easily live without transferring any data or off loading any data
or for that matter I have no interest in really streaming any data. The bottom line for me is to be able to fill up a hard drive, remove it, drop another hard drive in the TIVO ( I understand that the new drive will download the software automatically ) and prepare that drive for recording and then if I want take out that drive and put the "old" one back in AND not have the TIVO treat it as a "new" drive and try and "format" it and I can just start watching recorded programs on that drive without problems. Thank you.
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:05 PM   #15
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[quote=phaedruspress;10096139
Have you done this (swapped drives back and forth) or know someone who has or is this what you believe is what will occur?
[/QUOTE]

I have done this, no problem, see my post above.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:35 PM   #16
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If the only goal is to try and use the drive swapping to take video off the drives and put video on, then I can guarantee you that it does *not* work.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:44 PM   #17
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Just get the Weaknees 8TB solution for the Roamio. Then you don't need to worry about swapping any drives since you have a massive amount of storage available.

Of course this option is very expensive too. But it gives you the most storage available.

http://www.weaknees.com/details2/rd4t0ropl.php
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:47 PM   #18
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Just get the Weaknees 8TB solution for the Roamio. Then you don't need to worry about swapping any drives since you have a massive amount of storage available.
I get the impression that the goal of this was specifically to try and use it as a video extraction method.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:52 AM   #19
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I don't think so. The OP has been told many times now that he can't do anything with the drive outside of the Tivo.

I can only guess why the OP wants to swap drives. Perhaps he just wants to be reassured that it CAN be done, if he ever feels he needs to.
I can envision doing this if one were to want to categorize their shows by swapping disks...drama on one disk, comedies on another, etc., but to do this on a regular basis, seems like would be too much trouble, having to disassemble/reassemble the Tivo each time.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:57 AM   #20
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