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Old 03-31-2013, 11:12 AM   #1
Rob Helmerichs
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Orphan Black 3/30/13 "Natural Selection"

Probably best to move the episode discussion over here...
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:29 PM   #2
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Decent pilot. Kept me hooked. Curious to see where the writers take it. Liked the main characters too, appears to be well cast. A couple scenes were a little "off" to me, but we'll see whether that becomes the norm or the exception. For example, at the end, she's in the car with the next twin (triplet/quad/clone/whatev), and the sniper shoots the twin bingo right thru the forehead. It then takes 5+ seconds before she reacts or moves, and for another bullet to come flying. Methinks the next shot would have been a second later, and thru her forehead. But not a biggie at this point. Again, I need to see whether this becomes the norm or not.

This seems to be the kind of series where after 2-3 episodes, I'm either hooked or gone. Hoping it's hooked!
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Originally Posted by cheesesteak View Post
I noticed the Ontario license plate and someone mentioned Montreal. But then there were the strong British accents on the two lead characters and American-ish accents on everybody else. Pretty confusing.
Plus the PA announcing trains to NYC. I had no idea where we were supposed to be.

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How does it make it harder for the viewer? It's not like the location is vitally important to the story. I mean, I guess I'm a little curious, but it's not a big deal.
I think as a viewer it helps if you know "where you are". It gives some context to everything you're watching. You are correct, the location is usually not important, but unless the ambiguity of the location is a specific part of the story/plot, most people find it disconcerting when they don't know where a story is set. You spend time trying to figure out where home is, rather than focusing on the story.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:04 PM   #3
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I think as a viewer it helps if you know "where you are". It gives some context to everything you're watching. You are correct, the location is usually not important, but unless the ambiguity of the location is a specific part of the story/plot, most people find it disconcerting when they don't know where a story is set. You spend time trying to figure out where home is, rather than focusing on the story.
I guess. I know I never even wonder about where the story is unless there is some cool scenery/building/whatever in a shot that makes me think that it would be cool to know where that is so I might can go see it one day. I have never once had curiosity about whatever city the story is located in detract from my viewing.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:01 PM   #4
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I guess I'm just too geographically-minded. I always need to know where I am, even in fiction, and if I don't know it drives me crazy. I have a couple of Game of Thrones maps from the set they put out not too long ago sitting on my living room floor, ready for tonight's premiere. (And I've always HATED that the GoT books have seriously deficient maps, i.e., they don't show all the places named in the text.)

In this case, I suspect they're just trying to make it a generic city so it won't seem too Canadian to most American viewers. Which I don't really approve of, but given my low esteem of most American viewers, I guess I can see their point...
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:47 PM   #5
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I guess I'm just too geographically-minded. I always need to know where I am, even in fiction, and if I don't know it drives me crazy. I have a couple of Game of Thrones maps from the set they put out not too long ago sitting on my living room floor, ready for tonight's premiere. (And I've always HATED that the GoT books have seriously deficient maps, i.e., they don't show all the places named in the text.)

In this case, I suspect they're just trying to make it a generic city so it won't seem too Canadian to most American viewers. Which I don't really approve of, but given my low esteem of most American viewers, I guess I can see their point...
I can understand that with something like GoT since it really does help to put events of the story in relation to each other, since that is sometimes very important to the story itself. As for "Orphan Black", it just doesn't matter to me if it's in NYC, Minneapolis, Toronto, Montreal, Starling City or Metropolis. I understand that others may prefer to have a location known, but that is the same way I understand what my old math professor was talking about when he described how to find the sum of an infinite series. I can use the formula and obtain the correct result, but that doesn't mean I "get" it. Anything I can find online that even mentions the city just says it's a fictional city, filmed in Toronto.

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of American TV viewers, and point to the continuing popularity of most "reality" shows as proof that my opinion is valid. On the other hand, my sister in law is obsessed with every reality show there is, but she is from Toronto. It may be that it is all North American viewers I should hold in such low esteem, and not just the Americans. My old stats professor would say I need a larger sample size. If only I had understood what he meant by that....

Enough thread derailing... After all, this isn't a BBT episode thread.

I really enjoyed this pilot, and am looking forward to the next one. This plus Doctor Who means I have something to look forward to from Saturday night TV for a little while.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:20 PM   #6
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I loved the pilot. I found it very intriguing - I couldn't wait to see how she would wiggle out of situations where she was supposed to know what was going on but had no idea. Soap and sex....who knew?

As far as the location, it distracted me - I like to know where things are taking place. I caught the NYC reference, but when she pulled up in front of her house I knew that wasn't NYC. And it never occurred to me that it was Canada until reading it here, but now makes perfect sense.

Looking forward to the next episode.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:42 PM   #7
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I'm not sure I like the character yet; at this point I'm feeling negative toward Sarah.

I guess I find her character a bit too quick to take to criminal route when given an option. I'd be able to accept that more if I could see a touch more positive attributes in her. I trust more of that is to come.

I love Tatiana Maslany. I first saw her in the Canadian series, Heartland, and I've caught on a few other things as well. She should have the chops to handle this multiple role challenge, but her portrayal of the clone Katjia seemed flat to me. Yet she made Beth and Sarah seem like very real, ad very different people.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:48 PM   #8
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I guess I find her character a bit too quick to take to criminal route when given an option.
Well, she IS a criminal! The series starts when she returns to town after abandoning her daughter for ten months, having just beaten and robbed her boyfriend of thousands of dollars worth of cocaine. This is not a terribly good person.

I suspect (hope) that one aspect of the series will be her growing up a little and taking responsibility for her life, and for others. At the moment, I find her more charming than likable, but charming enough for now.

As I said in the other thread, the accents puzzled me, since they obviously grew up in foster care in that city (i.e., in Canada). So why do they have English accents? For story purposes, it makes sense...it helps distinguish the various Tatiana Maslany characters. But I do not yet have a clue how it works in-story. To which:
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I believe that will be answered in-story shortly.
Which is almost certainly the case...they wouldn't have worked so hard to get two Canadian actors to put on English accents if it wasn't important. I just don't have a clue where they're going with that. One of many mysteries!
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:56 PM   #9
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Oh, I get it, Rob. And I'd probably find it unbelieveable if she were to suddenly be showing a heart of gold underneath that flinty, calculating exterior.

But I have a hard time enjoying a show where the lead is so clearly a criminal. Sure, I know, there are layers, and others may enjoy discovering deep-seated psychological motivations for her behaviors. But personally, I hope we get to see a more likeable, accessible Sarah. I just can't stay with a series where the lead is so dark.

But that's me...
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:20 PM   #10
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But I have a hard time enjoying a show where the lead is so clearly a criminal. Sure, I know, there are layers, and others may enjoy discovering deep-seated psychological motivations for her behaviors. But personally, I hope we get to see a more likeable, accessible Sarah. I just can't stay with a series where the lead is so dark.

But that's me...
You must not like Sons Of Anarchy. Just about everybody's an unrepentant criminal on that show.
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:09 PM   #11
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"Your hair looks different."

"I got it cut."

"It's longer!"

[...] "It's wet."
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:30 AM   #12
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When she finds the bank statement with the $75K info on it, there's also the business card paper clipped to it that leads her to the bank manager she goes to meet to make the withdrawal. They show the name and address on the card and it's a Toronto address.... 3045 Queen St, Toronto, ON. She didn't yet have access to the car at this point so, presumably, she walked or took the subway to get there. i.e., the bank was local to her.

This show is going to be like most other Canadian produced shows where the location is supposed to actually take place there... They will never specifically mention the city it's in, but they won't bother to hide it, either.

"Rookie Blue" is like that.... They love to show aerial Toronto skyline shots, yet their police uniforms and cars just say "Metro Police" and never mention where they are in any dialog.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:35 AM   #13
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As I said in the other thread, the accents puzzled me, since they obviously grew up in foster care in that city (i.e., in Canada). So why do they have English accents?
What makes it obvious they grew up in the city they're in? I'm assuming they grew up in foster care England and then at some point (once they reached adulthood?) came to Canada together.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:47 AM   #14
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What makes it obvious they grew up in the city they're in? I'm assuming they grew up in foster care England and then at some point (once they reached adulthood?) came to Canada together.
The people at the "funeral" were her fellow foster kids, so unless they emigrated en masse from England, the foster situation was local.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:56 AM   #15
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The people at the "funeral" were her fellow foster kids
That was specifically mentioned? I thought they were just her "criminal" / wrong-side-of-the-tracks friends. Heck, two of the guys standing there looked to be in their 40s.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:07 PM   #16
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You must not like Sons Of Anarchy. Just about everybody's an unrepentant criminal on that show.
or the Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire or half the shows on TV these days.
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:33 PM   #17
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or the Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire or half the shows on TV these days.
CSPAN...
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:05 PM   #18
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or the Sopranos or Boardwalk Empire or half the shows on TV these days.
Well, that's very true. I can get far too much exposure to the seamier, depressing side of life through newspapers and newscasts. I have no desire to have that become my entertainment, as well.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:51 AM   #19
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So I'm going to derail the thread again and discuss geography. I was catching up on some stuff that's been sitting on my TiVo and was watching the episode of Touch from 3/22 when they began discussing an area I know well. I lived there for 20 years or so. The only thing they got right was the town name and zip code. This is much worse and more distracting to me as a viewer than not naming a place or using a fictional name.

There are some minor spoilers for the 3/22 episode of Touch below.
Spoiler:
Apple Valley, CA is northeast of L.A. not southeast. It has no road named Copper Canyon. While it is in the desert, it is by no means remote. It has a population of @60,000 and the combined metropolitan area of 4 cities has a population of @200,000.

The route driven by Martin and Lucy to get there on remote desert roads would be so far out of the way no one would ever drive it. In fact, the diner where they break down is a set in Palmdale, CA, about 1.5 hours to the west of Apple Valley. To get to that road, you'd have to go past the state highway that would take you directly into Apple Valley, and even that wouldn't likely be the route taken by 2 people new to the area since you can take interstate highways directly from L.A. to Apple Valley. Even the plants in the desert scenes show they were likely filmed in the Palmdale area. The desert around Apple Valley has a much different flora makeup.

This is way more distracting to me as a viewer than if they had just said "Oh, it's in Creosote, CA" (completely fictional) or just "in the desert a couple hours southwest of here". Hell, say it's just outside Palmdale if that's where you're going to film.

By naming an actual location but getting just about every detail wrong after that, it distracts me as a viewer. I'd rather they use a fictional location or not even name the location than name a specific city, but then get the basic geography so wrong.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:20 AM   #20
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Oh, I get it, Rob. And I'd probably find it unbelieveable if she were to suddenly be showing a heart of gold underneath that flinty, calculating exterior.

But I have a hard time enjoying a show where the lead is so clearly a criminal. Sure, I know, there are layers, and others may enjoy discovering deep-seated psychological motivations for her behaviors. But personally, I hope we get to see a more likeable, accessible Sarah. I just can't stay with a series where the lead is so dark.

But that's me...
You're not alone. I'm withholding judgement on this show which I like but I'm not sure about the main character. Cute but seemingly amoral. I don't watch the popular cable TV shows with anti-heroes. Not my taste, with the notable major exception of Al Swearington in "Deadwood" which I just saw on Netflix and Boyd Crowder in "Justified". Then again I probably watch far less TV shows than most posting here.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:39 PM   #21
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I would guess that things are going to change quickly. She has seen one "twin" kill herself and another assassinated in the back seat of her car. I would think that she is going to have to grow up pretty quickly in coming episodes if she wants to survive. I would guess she won't be as much about stealing $74,500, but trying to figure what the heck is going on in her life.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #22
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One thing I'm curious about is how long she will continue pretending to be Beth? It doesn't seem very realistic that a person could just take over another person's life that they knew nothing about. I guess the trama of accidentally killing someone in the line of duty could have seriously messed her up or something?? So, she'll just say that she's a different person now??
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:13 PM   #23
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Plus Beth had been on medication, and Sarah told Beth's boyfriend she had just gone off. So that should buy her a little weirdness.

But yes, I hope there is quickly an inner circle who help her out, rather than just constantly being duped by her.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:47 PM   #24
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Given that the nature of the doppelgangers is apparently being treated as a mystery and wasn't answered in the first episode, I'm surprised the 'reveal' was so plainly stated in the show description, where it plainly states they are

Spoiler:
clones


Maybe they'll address it in episode 2 and then move on from there. Otherwise, I think the network did viewers a disservice by not allowing any speculation to build about what exactly is going on.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #25
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That was part of the publicity for the show ever since it was first announced. I don't think they ever intended it to be a surprise (at least for us; obviously, Sarah has some work to do).

It's a very old tradition in storytelling, to give the audience more information than the characters have.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:31 PM   #26
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That was part of the publicity for the show ever since it was first announced. I don't think they ever intended it to be a surprise (at least for us; obviously, Sarah has some work to do).

It's a very old tradition in storytelling, to give the audience more information than the characters have.
Right, I suppose. But my point is that the network is co-opting the storyteller role here by revealing it to the viewer before the show itself does. It's one thing for the viewer to know something before the character does because the *show* has revealed it to the viewer. It's another thing for the network to do it. It's kind of like the food network's annoying habit of showing a promo during the airing of a competition show where the promo reveals who the winner of the competition necessarily must be.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:32 PM   #27
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Well, without the c-word, I would never have watched the show in the first place.

And I doubt the sci-fi websites I learned about it from would have covered it.

The point of the show isn't us finding out what she is; it's her finding out what she is. Otherwise, it would just seem like a Ringer clone, in which I have zero interest (having bailed on Ringer fairly early on).
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:11 AM   #28
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Watched the replay last night. Hooked. Glad I did not miss it!

Liked the twisted/complicate plot lines, and solid characters. After the last couple disappointing new series (The Following, Americans), its refreshing to actually have some interesting.

Speaking of doppelgangers, Tatiana Maslany is channeling Mila Kunis and Tina Majorino (Waterworld girl)



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Old 04-05-2013, 10:15 AM   #29
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Watched the replay last night. Hooked. Glad I did not miss it!

Liked the twisted/complicate plot lines, and solid characters. After the last couple disappointing new series (The Following, Americans), its refreshing to actually have some interesting.

Speaking of doppelgangers, Tatiana Maslany is channeling Mila Kunis and Tina Majorino (Waterworld girl)
I too saw the resemblance to Tina Majorino while watching this. (I don't think of her as Waterworld Girl, though I know she was in that. To me, she's always Mac from Veronica Mars).
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:17 AM   #30
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I really enjoyed this pilot, and am looking forward to the next one. This plus Doctor Who means I have something to look forward to from Saturday night TV for a little while.
Enjoyed the pilot and avoided this thread until I got time to watch it. Season Pass is set. I like the flawed main character because only someone like her would want to assume another person's identity. (Didn't spoilerize that sentence because every description of the show reveals that information. Wrong?)

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I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of American TV viewers, and point to the continuing popularity of most "reality" shows as proof that my opinion is valid. On the other hand, my sister in law is obsessed with every reality show there is, but she is from Toronto. It may be that it is all North American viewers I should hold in such low esteem, and not just the Americans. My old stats professor would say I need a larger sample size. If only I had understood what he meant by that....
I'm an American viewer who can't stomach "reality shows" (except Judge Judy -- love her). I think Netflix is making out like a bandit as a result of the "reality" craze.
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