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Old 04-25-2014, 06:09 PM   #1
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Netflix is coming to cable: TiVo DVRs to stream programming

I'm not sure if this has been discussed here, but it's news to me.

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Netflix: It's not just for computers anymore. On Thursday (April 24), the online network announced that it would be launching directly into the television world via partnerships with TiVo DVRs and three cable networks.

Variety reports customers who get cable from RCN Communications, Atlantic Broadband and Grande Communications will be able to watch Netflix on their TVs, with Atlantic Broadband customers expected to get the channel as early as Monday (April 28). Those with existing Netflix accounts should be able to watch programming immediately, while those without accounts can get a free month's subscription before signing up for the standard service.

The participating cable providers are comparatively tiny, cumulatively serving about 700,000 customers in a limited number of states. There is no word yet on whether Netflix expects to expand to larger providers like Comcast or Time Warner.

Although a TiVo will be required for any viewer wanting to view Netflix, Atlantic Broadband viewers will be able to find Netflix on their channel grid. Netflix programming -- as well as some programming licensed to Netflix from other sources -- like "House of Cards," "Orange Is the New Black" and more will be available like other series.
Source Article By Laurel Brown
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:55 AM   #2
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What does that mean? "Netflix is not just for computers anymore" When was Netflix ever just for computers? I've been with Netflix for over fifteen years now. I don't recall it ever being just for computers.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:17 AM   #3
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What does that mean?
I suppose someone not knowing exactly what they're writing about.

What I found most interesting was the "viewers will be able to find Netflix on their channel grid" part.
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:17 PM   #4
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It seems to me this article was written by someone that doesn't know what a Tivo is. The cable companies (RCN and others) that currently lease Tivo's do not have Netflix or other apps. Now they will at least have the Netflix app.

It's not very groundbreaking. It's just offering something retail Tivo's already provide.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:58 AM   #5
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Until now cable has viewed Netflix as competition. These smaller providers are coming to the realization that most people still subscribe to both and that if they offer Netflix via thier own DVR people will be more likely to pay their $20/mo DVR fee rather then just buy their own.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:45 AM   #6
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I'm just happy that Comcast FINALLY offered Xfinity OnDemand for all of my TiVo Premieres. It only took several years, but I guess they are embracing TiVos as well on some level.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:46 AM   #7
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Until now cable has viewed Netflix as competition. These smaller providers are coming to the realization that most people still subscribe to both and that if they offer Netflix via thier own DVR people will be more likely to pay their $20/mo DVR fee rather then just buy their own.
Not to mention that most cable companies put data limits on your internet connection and they have just figured out that encouraging their subscribers to stream Netflix will consume more of allocated monthly data which in turn if you go over, they will surcharge you for the amount of data you go over.

This aspect of data allocation for home residential internet access is something that scares me when it comes to all the talk of cloud dvr services, for the cable providers it's just a new excuse to get more money from the consumer.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:03 AM   #8
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The jest of the article is from a misinformed writer who doesn't know that Netflix has been available for retail TiVo's for several years, what they are describing with the recent changes were TiVo has jumped in bed with the cable providers, some cable providers are offering TiVo service and allowing Netflix.

My cable company is in the process of dumping their own dvr service and replacing it with TiVo's however they don't allow Netflix, Amazon or any other streaming content as that competes with their PPV and VOD premium services, it's amazing when I read Mediacom support forums were numerous subscribers are paying almost twice as much monthly for Tivo service and receive have of the regular retail functions such as Netflix, no Stream support, no home network MRV and are limited to MoCA for networking multiroom viewing with Mini's as they disable the ethernet ports on the Premiere, Pace and Mini boxes to prevent you from connecting them to your home network.

I believe believe it's a good move for Tivo to be working with MSO's as to leave dvr to those who know how to do it right, but it amazing how many people don't realize they are getting short changed.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:11 PM   #9
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Not to mention that most cable companies put data limits on your internet connection and they have just figured out that encouraging their subscribers to stream Netflix will consume more of allocated monthly data which in turn if you go over, they will surcharge you for the amount of data you go over.

This aspect of data allocation for home residential internet access is something that scares me when it comes to all the talk of cloud dvr services, for the cable providers it's just a new excuse to get more money from the consumer.
The Cox cloud DVR uses VOD technology, not IP, to deliver the video. So it has no effect on your data cap. And the Comcast app for XBox was exempt from their data cqp even though it was streaming video over IP. So I don't think they're going to use these types of services to trick people into going over thier data caps.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:12 PM   #10
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Until now cable has viewed Netflix as competition. These smaller providers are coming to the realization that most people still subscribe to both and that if they offer Netflix via thier own DVR people will be more likely to pay their $20/mo DVR fee rather then just buy their own.
Actually, some of these (I think RCN, in particular) wanted to offer this earlier, but Netflix's content license agreements specifically prohibited offering their service via set tops owned by cable companies. Probably some weird fluke of Video On Demand vs. Netflix and unintended consequences of contractual definitions.

Apparently they fixed that.
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Old 04-28-2014, 02:28 PM   #11
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The Cox cloud DVR uses VOD technology, not IP, to deliver the video. So it has no effect on your data cap. And the Comcast app for XBox was exempt from their data cqp even though it was streaming video over IP. So I don't think they're going to use these types of services to trick people into going over thier data caps.
Oh no, I'm sure cable companies will NEVER take advantage of the increase in streaming Internet technologies to charge their customers more. (sarcastic mode off).

Just like my cable company which I recently made a change in my subscription of channel lineup, as they changed their package offering I am now for forced to pay an extra $1.69 for the same channels I had prior because I had a package that is no longer offered. I called to add a movie channel package and after raising a stink they gave in slightly and offered me 12 month discount for the new package which will lower my bill $2 for the next 12 months but after that I be charged the higher rate.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:00 PM   #12
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I'm sure metered internet is coming, I'm just betting it wont effect cable company services like cloud DVRs. That'll be part of the draw compared to services like Netflix.
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:14 PM   #13
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Even though Netflix will stream directly to the TiVo, you still need cable service or an OTA antenna for TiVo to work, correct? TiVo can't yet function as a streaming-only DVR?

My sister in Kansas wants to dump DirecTV and use just Netflix, Amazon Fire, etc. She doesn't need a TiVo to record programs -- that's what the Amazon Fire and her computer are for, right?
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Graymalkin View Post
Even though Netflix will stream directly to the TiVo, you still need cable service or an OTA antenna for TiVo to work, correct? TiVo can't yet function as a streaming-only DVR?

My sister in Kansas wants to dump DirecTV and use just Netflix, Amazon Fire, etc. She doesn't need a TiVo to record programs -- that's what the Amazon Fire and her computer are for, right?
It can, but it's kinds of a waste. There are much cheaper devices with no service contract that you can get to just stream Netflix. (Roku, Apple TV, Fire HD, etc...)
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Graymalkin View Post
Even though Netflix will stream directly to the TiVo, you still need cable service or an OTA antenna for TiVo to work, correct? TiVo can't yet function as a streaming-only DVR?

My sister in Kansas wants to dump DirecTV and use just Netflix, Amazon Fire, etc. She doesn't need a TiVo to record programs -- that's what the Amazon Fire and her computer are for, right?
No reason to own a TiVo if all you are going to do is stream Netflix & Amazon content. A Roku 3 or Amazon Fire streaming box is significantly superior to a TiVo for that.

However there is allot of "free" programing being broadcast via the OTA networks (ABC, CBS, CW, ION, FOX, NBC, PBS & any other networks that maybe broadcasting in her area) that you are not going to get (sometimes for years) with Netflix, Amazon or the other free channels on a Roku or Amazon Fire streaming box. Why isn't she interested in using OTA?
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Graymalkin View Post
Even though Netflix will stream directly to the TiVo, you still need cable service or an OTA antenna for TiVo to work, correct? TiVo can't yet function as a streaming-only DVR?

My sister in Kansas wants to dump DirecTV and use just Netflix, Amazon Fire, etc. She doesn't need a TiVo to record programs -- that's what the Amazon Fire and her computer are for, right?
No TV service of any kind is required to have a tivo subscription. What's needed to use any streaming service on a Tivo is a subscription to the Tivo service and has already been said, that would just be a waste of money. The streaming and the DVR functions are completely separate.

You list Amazon Fire as if it's a service like Netflix which it is not, it's a device.
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:25 PM   #17
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It is a bit of a strategy shift, but it is among very small providers. I think RCN is the largest of the batch, and they are an overbuilder who has built over Comcast (Boston) and TWC and now Verizon (NYC), so of course they are a little different from a traditional monopolistic behemoth like Comcast. What will be big news is if Comcast puts Netflix on their boxes. I think it makes sense to tie Netflix to the cable experience, as it could create some "stickiness" with users, even if it has no real relevance, since it's just as good through any one of the zillion different streaming devices.

What would get real interesting is if Comcast decided to include Netflix in their higher packages, and/or streamed it through the X1's modem and didn't count it towards the cap (if they even actually roll the cap out).
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:30 PM   #18
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It can, but it's kinds of a waste. There are much cheaper devices with no service contract that you can get to just stream Netflix. (Roku, Apple TV, Fire HD, etc...)
Exactly. Why buy a clunky box (for streaming anyways) for $700+ when you can buy a $99 box to do that? TiVo's whole point is to bundle OTA programming with internet programming.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:33 PM   #19
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Actually, some of these (I think RCN, in particular) wanted to offer this earlier, but Netflix's content license agreements specifically prohibited offering their service via set tops owned by cable companies. Probably some weird fluke of Video On Demand vs. Netflix and unintended consequences of contractual definitions.
I thought it was the *Cable Card* coalition (or some other cable end of the argument) that disallowed any over the top services in their "cable boxes", which a leased Tivo counts as.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:11 AM   #20
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I thought it was the *Cable Card* coalition (or some other cable end of the argument) that disallowed any over the top services in their "cable boxes", which a leased Tivo counts as.
Netflix specifically cited their content license agreements in North America when asked about it when they announced their deal with Virgin Media in the UK.

I don't see how CableLabs would have any authority over what services a member MSO provides over a CableCard set top box. Pretty sure that would be illegal under antitrust and anti-collusion laws. Remember that the participating cable company in these cases *want* to offer Netflix, this isn't TiVo or Netflix pushing this down to customers without the cable company's permission.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:21 AM   #21
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Oh no, I'm sure cable companies will NEVER take advantage of the consumer and blame some other organization when there is a concern for including a service that might decrease their income revenue. They would never lie... (sarcastic mode off).

You can't tell I despise cable companies can you?
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:22 AM   #22
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Oh no, I'm sure cable companies will NEVER take advantage of the consumer and blame some other organization when there is a concern for including a service that might decrease their income revenue. They would never lie... (sarcastic mode off).

You can't tell I despise cable companies can you?
*Shrug* I don't see where it would've been in Netflix's interest to lie like that. It was Netflix who said they couldn't do it, not the cable companies.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:56 PM   #23
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Netflix specifically cited their content license agreements in North America when asked about it when they announced their deal with Virgin Media in the UK.

I don't see how CableLabs would have any authority over what services a member MSO provides over a CableCard set top box. Pretty sure that would be illegal under antitrust and anti-collusion laws. Remember that the participating cable company in these cases *want* to offer Netflix, this isn't TiVo or Netflix pushing this down to customers without the cable company's permission.
It could be that they are prevented from bundling the content with cable, but that they can allow users of RCN and the others to bring their own Netflix accounts to the MSO-owned hardware...
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:01 PM   #24
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It could be that they are prevented from bundling the content with cable, but that they can allow users of RCN and the others to bring their own Netflix accounts to the MSO-owned hardware...
No, their agreement specifically prevented Netflix from allowing anyone to use the app on MSO-owned hardware. They said as much when this issue first arose.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:24 PM   #25
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No, their agreement specifically prevented Netflix from allowing anyone to use the app on MSO-owned hardware. They said as much when this issue first arose.
Interesting. The content providers must have wanted to protect their lucrative cable deals... I wonder what thawed the ice on that one?
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:45 PM   #26
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Interesting. The content providers must have wanted to protect their lucrative cable deals... I wonder what thawed the ice on that one?
I have a feeling it wasn't necessarily content providers wanting to protect VOD, since movies aren't available on Netflix and VOD at the same time. It was probably an unintended consequence due to lack of or improper definition in a contract. When Netflix started, there were no MSO-owned cable boxes that had Netflix, and to "solve" it they probably just waited until contracts expired and fixed them at the renewals.
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:37 PM   #27
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I have a feeling it wasn't necessarily content providers wanting to protect VOD, since movies aren't available on Netflix and VOD at the same time. It was probably an unintended consequence due to lack of or improper definition in a contract. When Netflix started, there were no MSO-owned cable boxes that had Netflix, and to "solve" it they probably just waited until contracts expired and fixed them at the renewals.
Could be.
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