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Old 07-02-2015, 09:11 AM   #1
SHergenrader
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Ethernet or MoCA

I just purchased a Mini. Which option is better to hooking it up? Ethernet or MoCA? I can do both so any opinions are much appreciated.

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Old 07-02-2015, 09:23 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by SHergenrader View Post
I just purchased a Mini. Which option is better to hooking it up? Ethernet or MoCA? I can do both so any opinions are much appreciated.
1st choice ethernet, 2nd choice MoCA

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Old 07-02-2015, 04:53 PM   #3
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1st choice ethernet, 2nd choice MoCA
What they said.

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Old 07-02-2015, 06:23 PM   #4
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When would they not be equivalent choices; that is, under what conditions would Ethernet be BETTER than MoCA?

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Old 07-02-2015, 07:56 PM   #5
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I have used them both..

no difference in speed or response..

I ended up with MOCA since I did not want to use ports on my router

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Old 07-02-2015, 09:13 PM   #6
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When would they not be equivalent choices; that is, under what conditions would Ethernet be BETTER than MoCA?
If you already have a Gigabit ethernet network set up in your home, then ethernet is probably the way to go. However, if your home isn't wired for ethernet but is wired with coax, then MoCA is the better choice, unless you enjoy pulling ethernet cables through walls. MoCA is also a little bit simpler. As long as your coax wiring/splitters are good, you usually won't have a lot of problems with it. Since MoCA is a point-to-point network, it works without having any kind of router sitting in-between the Roamio and the Minis. Some people also like using MoCA to keep the TiVo video streams separate from their ethernet network. If your ethernet network is only 10/100Mbps, then that is probably a good idea. If you have a Gigabit network, then it shouldn't really matter.


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Old 07-04-2015, 01:56 PM   #7
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Sometimes, depending on your Ethernet network configuration and hardware, some Mini's won't connect successfully to some host Tivo's. I've experienced this myself. It is often attributed to the Ethernet switch. There are multiple threads here about it.

If you are not affected, great! But it seems to be a non-issue for Moca connections.

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Old 07-06-2015, 06:00 PM   #8
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Yeah Minis seem to have issues with "green" switches. MoCa doesn't have switches so it's simpler.

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Old 07-07-2015, 09:06 PM   #9
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I have empty ethernet ports next to my Minis but decided to use MOCA which was also available. There really is no difference. I just thought it was cleaner keeping my Tivo data flowing over the coax and computer data on the switches.

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Old 07-12-2015, 11:25 AM   #10
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Since the Mini only has 100 Mbps through the Ethernet port, I like the MoCA connection where I get continuous 270 Mbps. The Mini doesn't need that much to operate correctly, but it makes me feel better.

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Old 07-12-2015, 12:00 PM   #11
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Since the Mini only has 100 Mbps through the Ethernet port, I like the MoCA connection where I get continuous 270 Mbps. The Mini doesn't need that much to operate correctly, but it makes me feel better.
I doubt your Mini is achieving 270Mbps network throughput. That sounds like the MoCA "PHY Rate", rather than the effective network speed. (see below)

That said... your basic point stands... as I expect the Mini MoCA connection is capable of exceeding the 100Mbps max of its Ethernet port, given that MoCA 1.1 is supposedly capable of up to 175Mbps effective throughput.

Unfortunately, I have no way of testing the actual network speed. Does anybody know of an iPerf or similar app for the Opera platform that we could campaign TiVo to include on the Mini & Roamios? There is a network test app already available in the TiVo Opera Store, "Screen & Network Test," but it only tests Internet download speed, so it wouldn't be useful in testing the max network rate of the Mini's MoCA/Ethernet connections -- except for those lucky enough to have 200+Mbps Internet connections. (Also, I'm none too confident in the "Screen & Network Test" app, since it's reporting my Internet download as 9Mbps, when I'm seeing 30Mbps, closer to my spec'd rate, from Ookla.)

It'd be GREAT if the Opera Store included an iPerf-like app that allowed us to set one TiVo device as the iPerf host, perhaps the TiVo host DVR bridging the MoCA connection, and then run iPerf in client mode from one or more other TiVo devices to test individual link speeds and also to see what happens as more devices are communicating simultaneously.

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MAC vs. PHY rate

Buyer beware. This is a "what you buy is not what you get" scenario.
Essentially there are two metrics for measuring performance. One is called the PHY rate (or physical layer) and the other the MAC rate (Media Access Controller). The former is the theoretical outlier for maximum performance that is possible, though not probable. It is rarely achieved even in pristine lab settings.

The MAC rate is the one that is important. It is the actual throughput that is realized. Pay TV operators design network topologies around actual, not theoretical, data rates.

When the large number on the product packageing states that this product is cabable of 200 and even 300 Megabits per second (Mbps) data rates, it is the PHY rate, not the MAC rate that is being touted. The consumer is seduced into thinking that more is better when in fact,more is often far less than advertised.

(link)
edit: Corrected an error in quoted text from MoCA4Installers.


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Old 07-12-2015, 01:08 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hytekjosh View Post
I have empty ethernet ports next to my Minis but decided to use MOCA which was also available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gespears View Post
Since the Mini only has 100 Mbps through the Ethernet port, I like the MoCA connection where I get continuous 270 Mbps. The Mini doesn't need that much to operate correctly, but it makes me feel better.
Hmmm... I think my sister's router just died, through which all her Minis connect to her host DVR (a Roamio Pro), so she's currently able to watch TV only through her Roamio Pro DVR. All the Minis are saying they can't connect to the DVR.

I'm wondering if having the Roamio Pro setup as the MoCA bridge and having all the Minis on the MoCA segment might allow the Minis to perform the basic task of watching recorded content off the host DVR, should she experience a similar death of a networking component, in the future.

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Old 07-12-2015, 01:45 PM   #13
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I doubt your Mini is achieving 270Mbps network throughput. That sounds like the MoCA "PHY Rate", rather than the effective network speed. (see below)
You are probably correct. But they function very well this way. I love MoCA!

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Old 07-12-2015, 11:05 PM   #14
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Hmmm... I think my sister's router just died, through which all her Minis connect to her host DVR (a Roamio Pro), so she's currently able to watch TV only through her Roamio Pro DVR. All the Minis are saying they can't connect to the DVR.

I'm wondering if having the Roamio Pro setup as the MoCA bridge and having all the Minis on the MoCA segment might allow the Minis to perform the basic task of watching recorded content off the host DVR, should she experience a similar death of a networking component, in the future.
It should. For MoCA to work, all you need is coax cabling between the Pro and the Minis. As I said above, MoCA is a point-to-point network, in which any 2 nodes can directly communicate with each other without any sort of router in-between them. That simplicity is one of MoCA's main advantages over ethernet.

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Old 07-13-2015, 09:16 AM   #15
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Yeah Minis seem to have issues with "green" switches. MoCa doesn't have switches so it's simpler.
what issue with the greens? i have three green switches and the three minis never experience any issues.

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Old 07-13-2015, 09:22 AM   #16
Bryan Lyle
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Distance may matter as well. I have 1 location in my house where MoCA wouldn't work due to the distance from the Roamio. Had to use Ethernet there (which works perfectly 100% of the time)

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Old 07-14-2015, 01:59 AM   #17
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According TiVo support, Ethernet is the preferred source over MoCa. FYI.

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Old 07-14-2015, 11:40 AM   #18
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According TiVo support, Ethernet is the preferred source over MoCa. FYI.
Although those jackaninnies will also tell you that they don't support Ethernet switches!

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Old 07-14-2015, 02:26 PM   #19
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Given the choice I would prefer Ethernet over MoCA, not because MoCA won't do the job, it will and it works perfectly fine for this purpose.

My reason for choosing Ethernet is I am more familiar with it and I have the tools and expertise to troubleshoot it.

But in your situation I would use which either method is readily available where your device will be.

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Old 07-16-2015, 11:56 AM   #20
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TiVo always recommends using MoCA because they have no idea how robust any of our home networks are, so TiVo just wants us to side step that issue and use seperate MoCA, especiually of the home net is 100Mps Ethernet. Also, some older routhers may not automatically give priority to video and people may not know how to tweak their routers QOS, and they may be the root of some of their problems. So, for them, MoCA is proabaly a better route, and this is why TiVo recommends it even if one is not having a problem with the network. It's just MoCA, MoCA, MoCA (just like "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!") we hear from TiVo.

In my case all Gigabit Ethernet home network and all TiVo's and Mini's use Ethernet with absolutely no problems along with all my other traffic. For me MoCA for my extensive TiVo networking is an unecessary evil.

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Old 07-16-2015, 12:52 PM   #21
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... especially if the home net is 100Mps Ethernet.
What's wrong with 100Mb/s ethernet? works perfectly fine, never had a lick of problems streaming. I've been way too lazy (and cheap) to upgrade to 1Gb/s ethernet switch.

Mini uses just under 20Mb/s to stream live TV well below the line rate of a 100Mb/s switch.


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Old 07-16-2015, 08:24 PM   #22
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According TiVo support, Ethernet is the preferred source over MoCa. FYI.
Umm, no. TiVo usually recommends MoCA over ethernet for the sake of simplicity.

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What's wrong with 100Mb/s ethernet? works perfectly fine, never had a lick of problems streaming. I've been way too lazy (and cheap) to upgrade to 1Gb/s ethernet switch.

Mini uses just under 20Mb/s to stream live TV well below the line rate of a 100Mb/s switch.
If you have 5 Minis going simultaneously, you could start to run into problems on 100Mb/s ethernet.

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Old 07-17-2015, 02:13 AM   #23
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what issue with the greens? i have three green switches and the three minis never experience any issues.
They may have fixed that somewhere along the lines. But there was an issue where the Mini would disconnect randomly when connected to a green switch. I'm using MoCa or powerline for all of mine now, so I can't confirm if this was fixed or not.

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Old 07-17-2015, 06:18 AM   #24
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Not that it would matter in a typical installation, but Cat 5 or 6 is "only" good for 100m whereas MoCA is good up to 2500m

I have 2 separate TiVo installations, one uses ethernet, the other MoCA. They both work flawlessly.
And by the way, the ethernet network includes 3 separate switches.

If your house is already wired for cable, that is definitely the way to go. That is if you are using Roamio Plus and mini's

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Old 07-17-2015, 10:19 AM   #25
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MoCa has a rated maximum distance of 300' not 2500m. So technically it's less then Ethernet (~60m) Although in practice it will typically work over greater distances.

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Old 07-17-2015, 04:34 PM   #26
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Here is where I got my figures.
http://superuser.com/questions/82203...rnet-over-cat5
Had I read more carefully I would have noticed your kind of numbers. Seemed plausible to me at the time as cable beats DSL for speed. Checking further the numbers you mention are correct.

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Old 07-20-2015, 02:25 AM   #27
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The reason MoCas distance is limited is because it typically operates on frequencies much higher then standard cable. (>1000Mhz) At those frequencies it's mich more prone to interference and leakage. But with good RG6 cables, high quality splitters and good connections it will typically work over greater distances.

The one exception to the above is DirecTV's version of MoCa. It uses lower frequencies, like below 800Mhz IIRC, because the DirecTV equipment uses the higher frequencies due to legacy equipment trying not to interfere with OTA. On those lower frequencies the signal can travel much further. Although it's still relatively low power compared to a source cable signal, so it's not going to work over the same distances as a cable modem.

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Old 07-24-2015, 08:30 AM   #28
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I chose ethernet because I have read that it is the preferred method over MoCA. My home network setup is only 10/100 though at the moment and I have not had 1 issue with the connection between the Romaio OTA and the mini. Eventually I will do a gigabit but for right now I don't see the need.

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Old 07-24-2015, 02:28 PM   #29
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The Mini only has a 10/100 port anyway. So unless you have a bunch of Minis you don't really need to bother with gigabit.

The average stream between the TiVo and Mini is ~15Mbps, or less, so there is plenty of bandwidth on a 10/100 network to support even a few Minis without upgrading.

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Old 07-25-2015, 10:57 AM   #30
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The Mini only has a 10/100 port anyway. So unless you have a bunch of Minis you don't really need to bother with gigabit.

The average stream between the TiVo and Mini is ~15Mbps, or less, so there is plenty of bandwidth on a 10/100 network to support even a few Minis without upgrading.
... and the poster's Roamio OTA would still be a limiting factor, given it also only has a 10/100 Ethernet port.

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I chose ethernet because I have read that it is the preferred method over MoCA. My home network setup is only 10/100 though at the moment and I have not had 1 issue with the connection between the Romaio OTA and the mini. Eventually I will do a gigabit but for right now I don't see the need.

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