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Old 03-28-2014, 07:21 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs View Post
But they don't seem to have a way of getting to the surface...otherwise, Boss Lady wouldn't be risking a 130-year-old capsule renovated by a kid.

They've never explained how they plan on getting anybody else to the surface.
And this I explained away that she doesn't want anyone else to know she is going and/or she doesn't want to use a lander/capsule/whatever that is meant for something else.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:23 AM   #62
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Still, I don't see why they aren't simply picking a couple 100 more people to send to earth since it does way more logical than just airlocking them. After all, the plan is that they all are going to return to earth one day which they've always assumed was after 100 years and this is what, 96 years later instead of 100?

In any case they should have planned to have more landers/capsules to get them there!

I do hope I'm right about the other stuff I wrote above too otherwise it won't last long for me
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:05 AM   #63
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The problem is, they'll run out of air in a matter of months...how many months depending on how many people they're willing to kill in the meantime. So if they don't go down to Earth, and relatively soon, they die anyway.

I'm really not sure they (the writers) have thought this through...
They've established that the life support will be fixed in 6 months, so they only need to kill enough people to get that far, that is how they are calculating how many to kill.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:43 AM   #64
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Still, I don't see why they aren't simply picking a couple 100 more people to send to earth since it does way more logical than just airlocking them. After all, the plan is that they all are going to return to earth one day which they've always assumed was after 100 years and this is what, 96 years later instead of 100?
Based on the dialogue in the last episode, I believe the plan was to return to earth 100 years after the current date.

They have been in space for 97* years.


* Corrected, thanks AG.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:52 AM   #65
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Based on the dialogue in the last episode, I believe the plan was to return to earth 100 years after the current date.

They have already been in space for 140 years.
You sure? Not that my memory is all that great but I thought they said they wanted to send people back after 100 years and that sending those 100 kids now was a few years too early.

Just Googled it, the show is set 97 years after they left earth after a nuclear war.

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Old 03-28-2014, 02:59 PM   #66
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I believe in the pilot they mention how there's only enough resources for another 3-ish months -- that's MONTHS -- because of whatever error they made calculating things. Now at this point, just how many of whoever is left aboard the station would they need to get rid of in order for the resources available, which presumably includes some level of renewable ones, enable the remaining people and subsequent generations they produce, to survive for another 100 years.

So, in other words, they should be working to get most everybody to the surface now, as there's simply no choice, short of perhaps an alien-led rescue, or discovering they made yet another error calculating what remains. There's really not much alternative, unless there is some technology that will be available in the next few MONTHS that will be a game changer.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:08 PM   #67
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They clarified in the second episode that the impending doom is not certain - the station engineers need six months to fix the issue (but it is fixable given that time). With the population at its current level, they will only survive for four. But if they kill enough people, they buy enough time for the engineers to fix the problem so the remaining survivors could stay on indefinitely. They also clarified that it's a problem with the O2 scrubbers, and that people are already showing signs of oxygen deprivation. Is there a separate "resources are running out" issue that's additional to the fixable O2 issue?
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:03 PM   #68
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...the station engineers need six months to fix the issue (but it is fixable given that time).
I suppose it's possible that this will be the first occasion in all of recorded history when the amount of time they estimate it will take to fix an issue is actually the amount of time it will take...
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:01 PM   #69
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At least if they turn out to be wrong nobody will be around to say "I told you so"
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:12 PM   #70
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I wonder if they give a window. "We can fix it between 8:00 and 12:00, or 12:00 and 4:00, in six months."
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:57 PM   #71
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But they don't seem to have a way of getting to the surface...otherwise, Boss Lady wouldn't be risking a 130-year-old capsule renovated by a kid.

They've never explained how they plan on getting anybody else to the surface.
As stated by AG, I think that they do have other ships but Paige Turco needs this one because her operation is going to be clandestine.


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They clarified in the second episode that the impending doom is not certain - the station engineers need six months to fix the issue (but it is fixable given that time). With the population at its current level, they will only survive for four. But if they kill enough people, they buy enough time for the engineers to fix the problem so the remaining survivors could stay on indefinitely. They also clarified that it's a problem with the O2 scrubbers, and that people are already showing signs of oxygen deprivation. Is there a separate "resources are running out" issue that's additional to the fixable O2 issue?
By inference, resources are a continuing concern due to being a closed environment (which is why they are so liberal with the death penalty, wasting resources is a huge issue) but not a "running out" issue at the moment.

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I suppose it's possible that this will be the first occasion in all of recorded history when the amount of time they estimate it will take to fix an issue is actually the amount of time it will take...
Not dying is a great motivator.

Think how great your cable company service would be if the threat of death hung over them.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:05 PM   #72
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Think how great your cable company service would be if the threat of death hung over them.
I'm more amused by the notion that they can determine how long it will take to fix it right down to the exact number of people they need to kill to keep enough air for that period. 208 dead just won't cut it. It MUST be 209, because that's how long it will take to fix the scrubbers. 210, of course, would be overkill.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:26 AM   #73
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I'm more amused by the notion that they can determine how long it will take to fix it right down to the exact number of people they need to kill to keep enough air for that period. 208 dead just won't cut it. It MUST be 209, because that's how long it will take to fix the scrubbers. 210, of course, would be overkill.
I'm sure Councilor Kane added some extra people to those figures as a buffer because, well, he's just that kind of guy.
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Old 03-29-2014, 05:43 AM   #74
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I laughed when they showed that some of the useless kids formed a drum circle.
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:55 AM   #75
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Actually, having room for a prison space on a hundred year old station does make sense. There would have been supplies and spare parts that would be now used up freeing space.

The need for super strong re-entry vehicles is also unnecessary as you need not do a fiery re-entry. Just get in low orbit, fire your rocket or even just compressed gas like waste CO2 against your orbital speed till you are not moving relative to the ground anymore, then gravity will let you descend.

That is how those boosters would come back after a shuttle launch. You have to make a good parachute of course but that ought be doable on the station. Remember that guy who jumped from 40 miles up and lived, same idea.
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:55 PM   #76
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Actually, having room for a prison space on a hundred year old station does make sense. There would have been supplies and spare parts that would be now used up freeing space.

The need for super strong re-entry vehicles is also unnecessary as you need not do a fiery re-entry. Just get in low orbit, fire your rocket or even just compressed gas like waste CO2 against your orbital speed till you are not moving relative to the ground anymore, then gravity will let you descend.

That is how those boosters would come back after a shuttle launch. You have to make a good parachute of course but that ought be doable on the station. Remember that guy who jumped from 40 miles up and lived, same idea.
Uhh, no. Low earth orbital velocity is around 18000 mph, it takes as much fuel to stop from 18000 mph as it does to get up to 18000 mph (at least on a "per pound" basis, a lot of pounds of fuel are already burnt). Fiery reentry is used specifically to avoid that huge fuel burn. A little fuel is burnt to start the fall into atmosphere, friction does (most of) the rest of the braking.

Hence the heat resistant tiles on the shuttles. The boosters never make it to orbit and do fall back to earth.

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Old 03-29-2014, 09:58 PM   #77
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I was amused at their chosen form of execution: blow people out of an airlock, along with a bunch of the air that you're so worried about preserving. I haven't seen the second episode yet, but based on the size of the airlock they were going to send Dr. Griffin out of in the pilot, "floating" enough people will put a healthy dent in their resources I'd imagine.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:23 PM   #78
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I was amused at their chosen form of execution: blow people out of an airlock, along with a bunch of the air that you're so worried about preserving. I haven't seen the second episode yet, but based on the size of the airlock they were going to send Dr. Griffin out of in the pilot, "floating" enough people will put a healthy dent in their resources I'd imagine.
Either they depressurized the airlock first, or they did the math and figured out that what they saved by floating the person was by far more than they wasted.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:35 AM   #79
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I don't get the CW but I saw this show up on Netflix (Canada, not US). Watched a bit of it last night. Only has two episodes up. It's not a Netflix Original, so not sure how it got there. Are they going to get all shows filmed in Canada showing up on Netflix Canada in real time?
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:39 AM   #80
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Either they depressurized the airlock first, or they did the math and figured out that what they saved by floating the person was by far more than they wasted.
I don't think they can depressurize first. If they did, then when they open the port her body wouldn't whoosh out into space - it'd just stay in the depressurized airlock.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:44 AM   #81
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I don't think they can depressurize first. If they did, then when they open the port her body wouldn't whoosh out into space - it'd just stay in the depressurized airlock.
Maybe they fill the airlock with CO2 instead of O2 so by expelling people through the airlock they help the station. This theory has all the necessary plot holes and scientific stupidity to be plausible within their Universe.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:48 AM   #82
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I don't think they can depressurize first. If they did, then when they open the port her body wouldn't whoosh out into space - it'd just stay in the depressurized airlock.
All it needs is a gentle push...
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:16 AM   #83
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Maybe they figured it was just a cool concept, and didn't think about the practicalities...
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:59 AM   #84
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Either they depressurized the airlock first, or they did the math and figured out that what they saved by floating the person was by far more than they wasted.
It's clear that what they saved would be far more than they lost (people breathe the oxygen in about 400 cubic feet of air per day) But it's still pretty wasteful, especially if that's the way you're getting rid of everyone: it would definitely add up.

Although I guess if they said that the problem was the scrubbers (again I haven't watched the second episode) it's not so bad: the problem is not really lack of oxygen, it's too much CO2... and that would be helped by getting rid of a CO2 producer even if you lost oxygen.

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Maybe they figured it was just a cool concept, and didn't think about the practicalities...
That I refuse to believe. It's the CW!
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:32 AM   #85
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It's clear that what they saved would be far more than they lost (people breathe the oxygen in about 400 cubic feet of air per day) But it's still pretty wasteful, especially if that's the way you're getting rid of everyone: it would definitely add up.

Although I guess if they said that the problem was the scrubbers (again I haven't watched the second episode) it's not so bad: the problem is not really lack of oxygen, it's too much CO2... and that would be helped by getting rid of a CO2 producer even if you lost oxygen.

That I refuse to believe. It's the CW!
I think they need a science adviser. They have farmers growing food. What do plants do - they photosynthesize. Plants use CO2, water and sunlight to produce sugars and oxygen. They shouldn't need CO2 scrubbers as growing the plants for more food will liberate as much oxygen as it took to metabolize the previous food. They should be running a closed cycle just as earth does.

Compared to that, blowing air out the airlock is pretty stupid. Any form of leak is going to tax their air supply. But then. it's the CW.
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:30 PM   #86
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As mentioned above, CO2 build-up becomes a problem long before O2 depletion in an enclosed space.

I doubt they're getting their O2 from stored liquid O2 or from electrolysis so a safe assumption is they're using plants to recycle the CO2. There are a few plausible reasons they would still need CO2 scrubbers.

Night: plants may use O2 and produce CO2 at night or they simply don't produce O2 during the night and scrubbers would be needed to keep CO2 levels down until the sun shines on the greenhouses again.

It may be advantageous to scrub CO2 from living areas and transport it to the greenhouses. The decreased CO2 levels are good for the humans and increased CO2 concentrations will boost plant growth and O2 production.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:30 AM   #87
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That I refuse to believe. It's the CW!
Which means there's a 50-50 chance there'll be witches on this show eventually.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:00 AM   #88
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Which means there's a 50-50 chance there'll be witches on this show eventually.
We already know that Octavia doesn't float.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:10 PM   #89
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Science Fiction Writing needs no HS Physics?

The doors to all the chambers that open to space should be on the floor of the hallway. That's the direction of centripetal force. That's how they create "gravity" on a rotating space station. De-pressurize the chamber, open the door and the body moves out of the chamber because of inertia. No push or "whoosh" needed. Added advantage is that inertia keeps the body moving away from the station instead of floating around outside windows.

I took high school physics class 30+ years ago and it's clear the writers did not take a similar class.

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Old 04-03-2014, 03:12 PM   #90
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I thought episode 3 was pretty strong. I'm definitely invested now. The last scene surprised me.
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