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Old 03-17-2014, 05:33 PM   #1
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Shameless "Ledgend of Bonnie & Carl" 3/16 **SPOILERS**

HI ALL,

Wow, this season is really becoming one of my favorites!! Unfortunately the reason its so good is that a lot of bad things are happening. Is Frank really going to die? How much trouble is Fiona going to get in? Is the influence of Carl's new girlfriend going to make him into a real criminal? Did Debbie bite off more than she can chew in threatening Matt's new girlfriend. Is Lip getting more than he wants with his new girlfriend. What's going happen with Mickey and his Russian wife?

I could go on and on!!!

Two things of note.

I saw in the Guest Starring credits that Regina King (from Southland) was in this episode but I didn't catcher her. I had to look it up and she was the probation officer. Boy I really missed that it was her.

Best line of the episode: Mandy's black (and big!) boyfriend (is he more than that - I'm not sure) was chasing after Lip. When he corners Lip, Lip says that its all ok now because he has a new girlfriend. So the black guy asks if he should have his way with her like Lip did with Mandy. To which Lip replies that he would only be able to do it a certain way as she is saving herself for marriage!! I broke up laughing!!!!!

Gerry
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:15 AM   #2
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funniest show on tv!
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:36 PM   #3
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This show is evil.

Does it make me evil that I like it so much?

I think it does. Time to start my new career as a supervillain!
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:43 PM   #4
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John Cusack's daughter from 2012 has come a long way!
It's one of the few shows I have to watch real time.

Glad it got renewed and accordingly to Emmy Rossum her character goes much darker next year. If she gets any darker the screen will be pitch black!
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:11 PM   #5
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Glad it got renewed and accordingly to Emmy Rossum her character goes much darker next year. If she gets any darker the screen will be pitch black!

I'm also glad to hear that it's been renewed.

As far as Fiona going darker heading to "pitch black" - Boy!! I'll say!!!!!

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Old 03-19-2014, 12:13 PM   #6
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This show is evil.

Does it make me evil that I like it so much?

I think it does. Time to start my new career as a supervillain!
My sentiments exactly!!!

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Old 03-19-2014, 12:33 PM   #7
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IMO, Fiona is barely "dark" to begin with so she certainly isn't heading toward pitch black. The only Gallagher that's not "darker" than her (excluding skin pigment) is Liam.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:50 PM   #8
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IMO, Fiona is barely "dark" to begin with so she certainly isn't heading toward pitch black. The only Gallagher that's not "darker" than her (excluding skin pigment) is Liam.
Granted Frank is a lot worse then Fiona ever will be.

I think its more about how we feel about Fiona since she was the one that seemed to be the moral center of the show. Watching her go down a rat hole makes it feel dark. She seemed to be the one playing whack-a-mole trying to barely keep all the balls in the air and its hard to watch. Now Lip is trying to take that over.

It's also hard to imagine she can come back from it even if shady boyfriend's brother turns himself in.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:16 PM   #9
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It's also hard to imagine she can come back from it even if shady boyfriend's brother turns himself in.

You're absolutely right.
Going to the authorities and swearing on a stack of bibles that the coke was his and that he meant to share it with Fiona but accidently left it behind when she immediately kicked him out and rather than return the coke, she kept it for her own use which lead to her negligently leaving it out where Liam could get to it, is not going to be much help with her current situation.
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:50 PM   #10
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I think its more about how we feel about Fiona since she was the one that seemed to be the moral center of the show. Watching her go down a rat hole makes it feel dark.
It's actually making it hard for me to buy into it. I get that the whole Liam/coke/jail business changed her situation and rocked her world. But I had trouble with her just seemingly randomly hooking up with her (former) boss's brother in the first place. But now, at least in the way her last scene in this episode was played and edited, it looked to me like she's about to hook up with him again. If that happens, it's going to be really REALLY hard for me to suspend my disbelief. It just seems totally out of character for her, IMO.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:00 PM   #11
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This show is evil.

Does it make me evil that I like it so much?

I think it does. Time to start my new career as a supervillain!
Yes

Yes

And yes

Great season. Lots of stuff going on. The whole 'Frank dying' thing perplexes me. Is there any doubt that some 'miracle' is going to end up saving him, or is he done with the show? I'd like to see that resolved and move on because he's becoming, by far, the least interesting part of the show.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:16 PM   #12
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I'm willing to lay down good money that the new daughter is not really Frank's daughter.

I'm loving Lip's new GF. I can wait 45 minutes
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:20 PM   #13
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It's actually making it hard for me to buy into it. I get that the whole Liam/coke/jail business changed her situation and rocked her world. But I had trouble with her just seemingly randomly hooking up with her (former) boss's brother in the first place. But now, at least in the way her last scene in this episode was played and edited, it looked to me like she's about to hook up with him again. If that happens, it's going to be really REALLY hard for me to suspend my disbelief. It just seems totally out of character for her, IMO.
I guess I would go with the logic that she was on the cusp of success (HS degree / good job) and deliberately sabotaged it because she doesn't think she is worthy of success. Sort of like rehab failures, a lot of people are more afraid of unknown success than they are of known failure. Now this all may been subconscious but it is not that unusual. At least its my rationale for now!
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:27 PM   #14
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It's actually making it hard for me to buy into it. I get that the whole Liam/coke/jail business changed her situation and rocked her world. But I had trouble with her just seemingly randomly hooking up with her (former) boss's brother in the first place. But now, at least in the way her last scene in this episode was played and edited, it looked to me like she's about to hook up with him again. If that happens, it's going to be really REALLY hard for me to suspend my disbelief. It just seems totally out of character for her, IMO.
Fiona just has a healthy (or maybe unhealthy) appreciation for sex. She can't help herself, even if she knows she's going to feel guilty afterward.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:21 PM   #15
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What do you think will happen when Mandy's convict dad gets out and he finds out that she's married to ... a handsome and successful African-American?
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:45 AM   #16
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I guess I would go with the logic that she was on the cusp of success (HS degree / good job) and deliberately sabotaged it because she doesn't think she is worthy of success. Sort of like rehab failures, a lot of people are more afraid of unknown success than they are of known failure. Now this all may been subconscious but it is not that unusual. At least its my rationale for now!
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Fiona just has a healthy (or maybe unhealthy) appreciation for sex. She can't help herself, even if she knows she's going to feel guilty afterward.
I know those are the rationales we are supposed to believe. And I think both those things are true. But historically, even though she can be just as much a wreck as any of the others, she has always put her responsibilities to the family first. Her storyline this year simply doesn't feel to me like it fits with what we've been taught about her up to this point.

I dunno. There certainly seems to be a consensus that this season is great, or even the best yet, so I guess it's just me. But right now the only thing on the show that I find convincing and interesting is Steve Howie's performance as Kevin.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:38 PM   #17
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What do you think will happen when Mandy's convict dad gets out and he finds out that she's married to ... a handsome and successful African-American?
She isn't married...
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:19 PM   #18
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I know those are the rationales we are supposed to believe. And I think both those things are true. But historically, even though she can be just as much a wreck as any of the others, she has always put her responsibilities to the family first. Her storyline this year simply doesn't feel to me like it fits with what we've been taught about her up to this point.
I don't see any inconsistencies at all.

What do you think she's done to put herself before the kids that isn't consistent with the character in seasons 1-3?
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Old 03-20-2014, 02:41 PM   #19
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I don't see any inconsistencies at all.

What do you think she's done to put herself before the kids that isn't consistent with the character in seasons 1-3?
Yeah, she's always been wildly self-indulgent with no regard for propriety and the law. Drugs and inappropriate men have always been among her vices. It's just that, bizarrely, this has never before come into direct conflict with her desire to look after her family. Now the two have collided head-on, and she has to face the consequences.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:23 PM   #20
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I don't see any inconsistencies at all.

What do you think she's done to put herself before the kids that isn't consistent with the character in seasons 1-3?
Well, for one example, Jimmy/Steve was good for the family, and as soon as he balked at her commitment to them, she balked at him. At one point, she went so far as to pack her things to leave with him. But when she got to the train, she couldn't bring herself to leave.

For another example, she jumped through all sorts of hoops to get guardianship over the kids.

I'm not implying that she's a saint, or that she isn't impulsive and reckless. She just always kept it controlled to the point that the family came first. This season, she's become more like Frank. Which could be a valid direction for her character to go, but if that's where they take it they should be showing my why it happened. So far, I'm seeing it happen, but I'm not seeing why.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:48 PM   #21
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What do you think will happen when Mandy's convict dad gets out and he finds out that she's married to ... a handsome and successful African-American?
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She isn't married...
and earlier in the season both the father and boyfriend were in the house at the same time
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:24 PM   #22
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Well, for one example, Jimmy/Steve was good for the family, and as soon as he balked at her commitment to them, she balked at him. At one point, she went so far as to pack her things to leave with him. But when she got to the train, she couldn't bring herself to leave.

For another example, she jumped through all sorts of hoops to get guardianship over the kids.

I'm not implying that she's a saint, or that she isn't impulsive and reckless. She just always kept it controlled to the point that the family came first. This season, she's become more like Frank. Which could be a valid direction for her character to go, but if that's where they take it they should be showing my why it happened. So far, I'm seeing it happen, but I'm not seeing why.
The key point is how self-destructive Fiona is, like Daddy. As she said she goes off the rails because she thinks she doesn't deserve good things.

Remember how Fiona was being courted by, and ignoring, the cop who bought the house next door. We saw him this season pulling what remained of Frank out of the hellhole.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:33 PM   #23
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Well, for one example, Jimmy/Steve was good for the family, and as soon as he balked at her commitment to them, she balked at him. At one point, she went so far as to pack her things to leave with him. But when she got to the train, she couldn't bring herself to leave.

For another example, she jumped through all sorts of hoops to get guardianship over the kids.

I'm not implying that she's a saint, or that she isn't impulsive and reckless. She just always kept it controlled to the point that the family came first. This season, she's become more like Frank. Which could be a valid direction for her character to go, but if that's where they take it they should be showing my why it happened. So far, I'm seeing it happen, but I'm not seeing why.
I meant what is she doing now that isn't consistent with the character in seasons 1-3.
Everything you said about her is consistent with who Fiona was and still is.

Jimmy/Steve was, as far as we know, killed because of his international criminal dealings. How is someone like that "good for the family" in any way?

As Rob pointed out, she has always been "shameless" but now one incident where her self indulgence and responsibility clashed has had significant consequences for her and everyone around her.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:37 PM   #24
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Jimmy/Steve was, as far as we know, killed because of his international criminal dealings. How is someone like that "good for the family" in any way?

As Rob pointed out, she has always been "shameless" but now one incident where her self indulgence and responsibility clashed has had significant consequences for her and everyone around her.
Nah. Watch for a bearded, bedraggled, Steve to waltz in at the season ender. He's Shameless, too.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:58 PM   #25
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I meant what is she doing now that isn't consistent with the character in seasons 1-3.
Everything you said about her is consistent with who Fiona was and still is.

Jimmy/Steve was, as far as we know, killed because of his international criminal dealings. How is someone like that "good for the family" in any way?

As Rob pointed out, she has always been "shameless" but now one incident where her self indulgence and responsibility clashed has had significant consequences for her and everyone around her.
Jimmy/Steve was good for the family because he helped provide for the family, monetarily as well as time. His criminal dealings helped them out. It wasn't until he got hooked up with his 'wife's' family that he had problems.
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:23 PM   #26
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Jimmy/Steve was good for the family because he helped provide for the family, monetarily as well as time. His criminal dealings helped them out. It wasn't until he got hooked up with his 'wife's' family that he had problems.

He was "hooked up with his wife's family" long before he met Fiona and it's that sketchy criminal past that got him killed (as far as we know).
On what planet is being involved with people that can control you and will kill you without hesitation good for a family?
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:41 PM   #27
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He was "hooked up with his wife's family" long before he met Fiona and it's that sketchy criminal past that got him killed (as far as we know).
On what planet is being involved with people that can control you and will kill you without hesitation good for a family?
When you're poor and can't pay your bills or buy food, having someone who can do things like buy food, buy you a new washing machine, or a new TV is considered good for the family. Someone that can stay home and watch the baby while you go off to work is good for the family.

In reality, it isn't a safe environment, but for the people in that environment, it's better than what they had, because it is the difference between stealing/scamming and having enough money for food and medicine and heat.
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Old 03-21-2014, 12:28 AM   #28
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When you're poor and can't pay your bills or buy food, having someone who can do things like buy food, buy you a new washing machine, or a new TV is considered good for the family. Someone that can stay home and watch the baby while you go off to work is good for the family.
Good for the finances is not the same as good for the family


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In reality, it isn't a safe environment, but for the people in that environment, it's better than what they had, because it is the difference between stealing/scamming and having enough money for food and medicine and heat.
Better than ≠ good for
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:58 AM   #29
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I meant what is she doing now that isn't consistent with the character in seasons 1-3.
And my answer was, and still is, that she always put her responsibility to the family first up until this season. That is the difference.

And not only that, but she also seems to be making dumber and dumber decisions, and there doesn't seem to be any reason for it. In fact, I would expect her to be even MORE attentive to her family after the Liam incident, but she seems to be going in just the opposite direction. I feel like previous seasons have taught us that she's smarter than that.

And as far as Jimmy/Steve, what Agatha says. You can argue that Jimmy's situation was bad, but his contributions to the family were good ones. If people are cold, providing them with heat is good. If people are hungry, feeding them is good. Jim was helpful, attentive and caring to everyone in the family from start to finish, even after he started resenting it. Being a bad person does not negate the good things he did.
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:00 AM   #30
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I was thinking that Bonnie is going to get Carl his first experince with the Juvie home, then the muse hit me with a scary prediction....

(speculation)
All of this ground work about Kevin getting guns, and all of the guns the barflies have in The Alibi...
...Bonnie is going to plot a hold up of The Alibi.....AND THEY HAVE GUNS!!!! CARL!!!!!
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