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Old 12-15-2009, 02:23 PM   #1
Marconi
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Actual Powerline Ethernet Experiences?

Most threads I could find about powerline Ethernet adapters are from 2-3 years ago. Certainly things have improved a bit by now, no?

Anyone have powerline Ethernet adapter stories they'd like to share?

I have three HDs plus two Dual Tuner boxes and a couple S2s with no Ethernet. I figure the HDs and DTs could probably benefit from powerline adapters. They all use wireless g adapters currently.

Things I'd like to know:
Seems like the 85 Mbps devices ought to suffice for MRV transfers. The 10/100 ports on the DVRs would never use the capacity of the more costly 200 Mbps devices. Comments?

I know MoCA is nice but with all the splitters and amps scattered around my home, I suspect that signals might not get through. What happens when signals from a MoCA device hit a splitter?

Success stories?

Horror stories?

Please tell us about your success/failures with powerline Ethernet adapters currently on the market.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:39 PM   #2
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I had two of them that I never could get working reliably. Mostly it was because I have an older house with three breaker boxes, or three distinct zones in my home. Powerline ethernet relies on everything in your home being on the same "circuit" <-- ((I'm prolly wrong about that word)). If everything in your home runs to the same panel you can get 1 - 3 mb via powerline. I think mine were iogear adapters and they came with software that only worked with windows.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:58 PM   #3
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Using the ActionTec 85 Mbps as I type. Actually got the 4 port hub from them also for my two Series 3 and one HD Tivo. No problems but Tivo Desktop transfers are a little slow about a 1/3 of my wired tivo's.
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:10 PM   #4
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Powerline tends to be very hit or miss - though even the people who have good experiences don't get near the rated speeds (as is the case with most networking technologies), so if you want, say 20 megabits/s, I'd get the 200 megabits/s technology.

I would give MoCA a try-it's actually pretty tolerant of splitters and the overwhelming majority of users still get at least 30-40 megabits/s. You can buy an Actiontec MI424WR router on ebay for 30-35 dollars and convert it to a dumb MoCA bridge.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi View Post
Most threads I could find about powerline Ethernet adapters are from 2-3 years ago. Certainly things have improved a bit by now, no?

Anyone have powerline Ethernet adapter stories they'd like to share?

I have three HDs plus two Dual Tuner boxes and a couple S2s with no Ethernet. I figure the HDs and DTs could probably benefit from powerline adapters. They all use wireless g adapters currently.

Things I'd like to know:
Seems like the 85 Mbps devices ought to suffice for MRV transfers. The 10/100 ports on the DVRs would never use the capacity of the more costly 200 Mbps devices. Comments?

I know MoCA is nice but with all the splitters and amps scattered around my home, I suspect that signals might not get through. What happens when signals from a MoCA device hit a splitter?

Success stories?

Horror stories?

Please tell us about your success/failures with powerline Ethernet adapters currently on the market.

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Old 12-15-2009, 03:39 PM   #5
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i have had powerline for years , never had an issue, i transfer HD back and forth between machines, without problems. I do suggest a QOS router to keep things in order. I often watch netflix, and surf at the same time, without any problems.
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrome View Post
i have had powerline for years , never had an issue, i transfer HD back and forth between machines, without problems. I do suggest a QOS router to keep things in order. I often watch netflix, and surf at the same time, without any problems.
I find wireless G provides the same experience and for me is more reliable for reasons already stated.
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:05 PM   #7
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I have both Tivo HD's wired via Netgear 100mb Powerline Adapters. My home is over 100 years old and I have 1 circuit breaker. I can utilize MRV and get anywhere from 18 Mb/sec to 23Mb/sec throughput. With PC to Tivo transfers I see somewhere between 6-10 Mb/Sec
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:16 PM   #8
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For the folks with success, what products are you using specifically? If you don't mind saying.
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Videodrome View Post
i have had powerline for years , never had an issue, i transfer HD back and forth between machines, without problems. I do suggest a QOS router to keep things in order. I often watch netflix, and surf at the same time, without any problems.
I don't think Netflix and QOS in this case have much in common. Netflix is inbound from the internet. QOS effects outbound traffic. Sure, your requests for more stream may get to the Netflix servers with more priority, but the actual stream back is subject only to QOS added by Netflix, which I doubt they do...
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:38 PM   #10
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I don't think Netflix and QOS in this case have much in common. Netflix is inbound from the internet. QOS effects outbound traffic. Sure, your requests for more stream may get to the Netflix servers with more priority, but the actual stream back is subject only to QOS added by Netflix, which I doubt they do...
Will QoS improve transfer rates within the LAN? And if so how do you adjust the priority on VLAN and TOS to acheive that?
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:03 PM   #11
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Will QoS improve transfer rates within the LAN? And if so how do you adjust the priority on VLAN and TOS to acheive that?
I honestly wouldn't think so, unless your network was consistently pretty active, and running at capacity.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:55 PM   #12
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Longtime lurker here; thought I'd kick in my 2 cents. I recently moved into a rental house and added a second Tivo. Since I plan on streaming Netflix soon and wanted to interconnect everything (also not a computer expert) and wasn't in a position to hardwire everything together, I spent an evening researching powerline adapters. I decided to try the Linksys PLK300 kit (lots of good reviews). I've only been using it for a few days but so far it works perfectly. Decided to go with the 200 Mbps to be as future proof as possible. The 'receiver' end comes with a 4 port hub which works great since I have the Tivo, a Wii, a Panasonic plasma and a BD player that all want an internet connection. Haven't tried out the Netflix yet but all the speed tests I've run show very good throughput.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajayabb View Post
Will QoS improve transfer rates within the LAN? And if so how do you adjust the priority on VLAN and TOS to acheive that?
QoS is a board statement the applies to...

Marking
Queueing
Shaping
Policing
and some other things. Queueing won't take place until you're at capacity. For the purpose of this we'll assume marking is done.

In general on your LAN, you'll really have to be fubar'ed for queueing to help. shaping/policing can on occassion. However, as mentioned QoS on an ingress Internet connection is not going to do anything.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:40 AM   #14
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NewEgg.com currently has several NetGear powerline adapters (recertified) available for very good prices. I decided to try two each (they are limited to two per customer) of the ($24.99) XE104-100NAR and two of the ($27.99) XAV101-100NAR. The former have four ports and the latter, while faster, have just one Ethernet port.

I'll post info on the experience once I have received and tried them. I figured that, for the price, it's hard to go wrong.
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Old 12-16-2009, 06:36 AM   #15
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I originally used wireless internet to connect my router to my series 3 Tivo. This worked fine until I began to watch Netflix movies which always paused frequently and made it almost impossible to enjoy a movie.

I installed a Linksys PLK300 Powerline AV Network kit and my Netflix problems stopped immediately. I no longer get any pauses even if the movie is in HD quality.
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Old 12-16-2009, 08:04 AM   #16
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Tried the Netgear Powerline HD

My home is about 20 years old, only one breaker box. I thought I would be the perfect candidate for the powerline adapters. I was able to get great throughput from one bedroom to the next on the same floor but horrible throughput when going from the second floor to the first. At the time I didn't rate the speed in terms of actual throughput but I wasn't satisfied unitl I could MRV an HD show and watch it instantly and still skip commercials at the beginning of the transfer. I only experienced that kind of satisfaction when my S3s were hard-wired. Then I went with MoCA (NIM100s) and they were just as fast as my hard-wired ethernet setup. MoCA has no problems going in either direction through splitters as long as your splitters cover the full cable spectrum (5-1000Mhz).
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:19 AM   #17
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http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...ight=powerline

Some brands have two models (faster and not-as-faster). You better get the faster one for video streaming.
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:36 AM   #18
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I honestly wouldn't think so, unless your network was consistently pretty active, and running at capacity.
Well part of the powerline spec, is QOS. Because the rates arent consistent. I have 7 computers, 3 tivos, and 3 VOIP lines. There is a difference, because you could easily flood off a netflix session, or voip session, in a few seconds without QOS. We all know how sensitive, netflix is to internet bumps.
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Old 12-17-2009, 10:59 PM   #19
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Try Plaster Networks

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Originally Posted by ceyko View Post
For the folks with success, what products are you using specifically? If you don't mind saying.
I'm using Plaster Networks adapters. They have some added capabilities that really make a difference in my house for reliable connectivity. I would definitely recommend them.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:21 AM   #20
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Check out today's woot.


http://www.woot.com/

I think this is their older & slower product but that is a good price. Inexpensive way to check it out.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:32 AM   #21
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I just went through this this week and went the MoCA route. To me it seems more logical that you can get good results via a shielded coax cable than over AC lines, but not sure if thats a real issue. The reviews I read seemed to show MoCA running a lot faster. I bought a pair of Actiontec adapters from Amazon for $150.

In my house, there is one big splitter outside the house by the power meter that has lines running out all over the place. One of those lines has an amp on it. I had trouble at first getting it to work, until I moved the Actiontec adapter before the amp. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but it worked. My understanding is that the amps don't pass all the frequencies, and MoCA obviously uses frequencies that the cable companies don't. So I don't think splitters cause MoCA any trouble at all, and as long as you get on the inside of the amps, then you should be fine. Unless you have some amps somewhere before the signals reach the outlets, you should be fine by keeping the MoCA adapters as the first thing out of the jacks.

I'm quite happy with the speed.
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:30 PM   #22
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NewEgg.com currently has several NetGear powerline adapters (recertified) available for very good prices. I decided to try two each (they are limited to two per customer) of the ($24.99) XE104-100NAR and two of the ($27.99) XAV101-100NAR. The former have four ports and the latter, while faster, have just one Ethernet port.

I'll post info on the experience once I have received and tried them. I figured that, for the price, it's hard to go wrong.
I received these are tried them both. (It turns out that they are not interoperable).

I was looking to improve upon the performance of my existing TiVo branded wireless g adapters. To test these, I transferred the same file from the same TiVo HD multiple times, timing the download each time. For the Power Line Adapters (PLAs), I used the same outlets -- one by the DVRs and one near my router.

Using wireless g as the standard...

Fast PLA -- 'up to 200Mbps' -- (NetGear XAV101) was just 12.7% faster than wireless g.

Slow PLA -- 'up to 85 Mbps -- (NetGear XE104) was less than half the speed, 41% as fast, as my existing wireless g. This was a shocker.

I'd expected that the slower PLA would be a bit faster than wireless while the faster PLA would be significantly faster than wireless. Not even close.

YMMV, of course. My results are for my home, my wiring, my wireless, etc. My existing wireless has the DVR g adapter just 12 feet or so from the wireless router. I typically show a connection (on TiVo) in the high 80s ('Excellent'). The layout of the room does not allow for running Ethernet cable from the DVRs to the router -- it would be across the aisle.

I have not done any comparisons of transfer speeds when the DVRs involved are also recording. It's possible that whether a DVR is also recording at the time can affect throughput.
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Old 12-19-2009, 07:18 PM   #23
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What have you seen as far as reliability goes? In my situation, I have a couple of workstations that are not doing well wirelessly and I simply need a reliable connection - fast is optional. Does it seem to always be up with no packet loss?
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Old 12-19-2009, 08:46 PM   #24
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Told you to go with MoCA. Did you listen? No. Like my wife and my dog, you ignored me

Scoop up some used Actiontec routers and convert them to MoCA bridges. You'll be happy with the results.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi View Post
I received these are tried them both. (It turns out that they are not interoperable).

I was looking to improve upon the performance of my existing TiVo branded wireless g adapters. To test these, I transferred the same file from the same TiVo HD multiple times, timing the download each time. For the Power Line Adapters (PLAs), I used the same outlets -- one by the DVRs and one near my router.

Using wireless g as the standard...

Fast PLA -- 'up to 200Mbps' -- (NetGear XAV101) was just 12.7% faster than wireless g.

Slow PLA -- 'up to 85 Mbps -- (NetGear XE104) was less than half the speed, 41% as fast, as my existing wireless g. This was a shocker.

I'd expected that the slower PLA would be a bit faster than wireless while the faster PLA would be significantly faster than wireless. Not even close.

YMMV, of course. My results are for my home, my wiring, my wireless, etc. My existing wireless has the DVR g adapter just 12 feet or so from the wireless router. I typically show a connection (on TiVo) in the high 80s ('Excellent'). The layout of the room does not allow for running Ethernet cable from the DVRs to the router -- it would be across the aisle.

I have not done any comparisons of transfer speeds when the DVRs involved are also recording. It's possible that whether a DVR is also recording at the time can affect throughput.

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Old 12-19-2009, 11:25 PM   #25
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Told you to go with MoCA. Did you listen? No. Like my wife and my dog, you ignored me
I considered it but my cabling does not lend itself to it. I have a distribution amplifier (1 in, 4 out) that is nowhere near any of the devices to which I need connect. MoCA is not an option for me.
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Old 12-19-2009, 11:28 PM   #26
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What have you seen as far as reliability goes? In my situation, I have a couple of workstations that are not doing well wirelessly and I simply need a reliable connection - fast is optional. Does it seem to always be up with no packet loss?
I have no idea about packet loss. The connections, to the degree that I tested them, were reliable. The file transfers to my Mac came at a steady rate. YMMV.
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Old 12-20-2009, 10:53 AM   #27
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I considered it but my cabling does not lend itself to it. I have a distribution amplifier (1 in, 4 out) that is nowhere near any of the devices to which I need connect. MoCA is not an option for me.

As long as the moca devices are all connected to output nodes of the amp it should still work (other people have their networks connected this way). Amplified splitters are typically amps and splitters connected serially so devices connected to the output nodes don't need to go through the amp. It is only when devices are on the input side that you have problems.

Last edited by fyodor : 12-20-2009 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:30 AM   #28
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I have not done any comparisons of transfer speeds when the DVRs involved are also recording. It's possible that whether a DVR is also recording at the time can affect throughput.
Recording shouldn't affect the throughput because the TiVo is recording the buffers whenever it's not recording.


However, on my wired connection, when transfering from the TiVo to a computer, setting the tuners to channels I don't receive (which prevents buffering) increased transfer rate.
(Unfortunately I don't have numbers on that, I was judging the rate by the network graph on XP's task manager)

Also watching a previously recorded program decreased the transfer rate slightly compared to letting the TiVo display 'live TV'.

(So the fastest transfers are done by setting both tuners to a non-received channel and letting the TiVo display that grey screen)
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:10 PM   #29
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Though unless he's topping out the Tivo's transfer speeds, it really shouldn't matter. If you're using a connection like MoCA/Ethernet, you'll see some performance increase by switching to untunable channels, but if he's using wireless G or some equivalent, his network is going to be the limiting factor.

To be honest, in the early days of HD MRV, it made sense to do this, but the combination of performance increases on the Tivo HDs and further reduction of bitrates by providers has made it kind of a moot issue. Most people with a sufficiently fast network connection should be able to transfer fast enough to skip commercials without playing with the tuners.

For computer transfers, like the ones you're referencing, it makes sense, obviously, since (A) they're slower than MRV and (B), you usually want them as fast as possible since you're usually not transferring to watch immediately, but to archive, compress, etc.

F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan_S View Post
Recording shouldn't affect the throughput because the TiVo is recording the buffers whenever it's not recording.


However, on my wired connection, when transfering from the TiVo to a computer, setting the tuners to channels I don't receive (which prevents buffering) increased transfer rate.
(Unfortunately I don't have numbers on that, I was judging the rate by the network graph on XP's task manager)

Also watching a previously recorded program decreased the transfer rate slightly compared to letting the TiVo display 'live TV'.

(So the fastest transfers are done by setting both tuners to a non-received channel and letting the TiVo display that grey screen)

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Old 12-20-2009, 01:59 PM   #30
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Fyodor in your note.........
I would give MoCA a try-it's actually pretty tolerant of splitters and the overwhelming majority of users still get at least 30-40 megabits/s. You can buy an Actiontec MI424WR router on ebay for 30-35 dollars and convert it to a dumb MoCA bridge.
.................end note

I am interested in this because these seem to be cheaper than the Motorola NIM100 on Ebay right now. How do you go about just using these as moca boxes?
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