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Old 02-19-2014, 09:23 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
That is what I thought, too. To see Frank, you had to be standing close to the track, and even then Frank was in shadow wearing dark clothes. The surveillance camera does not quite have the angle. It is close, though. Possibly someone standing near the track could have seen Frank, but apparently no one came forward.



The police officer mentioned two witnesses, the train conductor and a 73 year old woman with degenerative eye issues.

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The way she approached the fence, furtively looking around, would look strange. Then leaning against the fence and her mouth moving would look very strange. And her dash behind the fence also. The show glossed over all of that by just showing her "leap" into the train from the surveillance camera.
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...and he entered the subway. He's on camera.

I actually spent enough time rewinding and rewatching (enough that my wife got a bit perturbed) and it looked like their conversation started in clear view of the camera we witnessed in the police station.

I told my wife I'd come to the internet (which mean y'all) and someone would have done a better job researching it than I did.
Take a look at the grabs john4200 posted. I think it would be difficult for the camera to see Underwood at all. He picked that location for a reason.
He may be on a camera in the station (hence the coat, hat and glasses) but not on that camera, talking to Zoe.

As for the strange behavior, part of this depends on the resolution of the camera. Generally speaking, these cameras aren't high resolution so details such as Zoe's lips moving may not be distinguishable.
(Plus a police officer reviewing the recording may simply be fast forwarding through the section before her death and not see details.)

So they saw her playing with her phone, maybe talking a bit to herself and walk around the fence and off camera.

On a CSI type show, I'm sure they would zoom in on a reflection on the fence post, enhance it to show a man, then digitally enhance the face to remove the hat and glasses to reveal Frank Underwood.
I don't think that's going to be the case here.
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:34 PM   #62
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Actual script from Season 1.





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Old 02-19-2014, 09:57 PM   #63
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The police officer mentioned two witnesses, the train conductor and a 73 year old woman with degenerative eye issues.

....

As for the strange behavior, part of this depends on the resolution of the camera. Generally speaking, these cameras aren't high resolution so details such as Zoe's lips moving may not be distinguishable.
(Plus a police officer reviewing the recording may simply be fast forwarding through the section before her death and not see details.)

So they saw her playing with her phone, maybe talking a bit to herself and walk around the fence and off camera.
Note that the "witnesses" saw her fall in front of the train. They did not report seeing a man back there. That is what I meant by no one came forward...to report seeing a man near where she fell.

As for fast-forwarding through the few minutes before her death. That's absurd. Someone would have reviewed the entire footage where Zoe was visible on that camera, and at normal speed. And in the image I posted, you can certainly see the lips of the people. Zoe would be a little further back, but it would be unmistakable that she was talking, and you would have to be very thick not to realize she was either insane, or was talking to someone behind the fence. And she did not "walk" around the fence, she dashed. There is no doubt whatsoever that her behavior would look very strange. Any investigator who did not seriously consider the possibility of homicide would be terribly negligent.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:18 PM   #64
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Take a look at the grabs john4200 posted. I think it would be difficult for the camera to see Underwood at all. He picked that location for a reason.
He may be on a camera in the station (hence the coat, hat and glasses) but not on that camera, talking to Zoe.
Yes, those screen grabs helped, and yes, I can just believe he's off camera. And hell, perhaps he got there hours before her.

...and the footage shown at the police station was grainy and distant.

Thanks for posting those john4200.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:24 PM   #65
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I don't think that Underwood was actually on camera.
Remember that he was staying in the construction area, around the fence corner from Zoe.
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That's why he wore the hat, (suspend reality for a bit here), he never looked up at the cameras and it would be hard to identify him from any camera angle (back to reality).
It's not about whether he's actually on camera or being able to identify him. I don't think they would be able to catch Frank from the surveillance camera. All I would like to see is that the police and Lucas would not immediately accept the premise of a suicide based on the fact that she was standing there, apparently talking to someone for a few minutes, then followed that person around the back, then suddenly jumped in front of the train? They should at least be able to see on another camer angle a man exiting that construction area shortly after she "jumped."

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The way she approached the fence, furtively looking around, would look strange. Then leaning against the fence and her mouth moving would look very strange. And her dash behind the fence also. The show glossed over all of that by just showing her "leap" into the train from the surveillance camera.
Exactly. The surveillance camera shouldn't have solved the case, but it also should not have left anyone thinking she committed suicide. An unfortunate misstep by an otherwise very well-done show.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:36 PM   #66
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As for fast-forwarding through the few minutes before her death. That's absurd. Someone would have reviewed the entire footage where Zoe was visible on that camera, and at normal speed.
Why is it absurd?
The DC Police have no evidence that any crime was committed and this was nothing more than a tragic accident.
Even the train conductor thought it was an accident.
They have to have more reason than a distraught boyfriend asking, "are you sure it wasn't an accident" to look closer and give this more attnetion thatn the other twenty plus cases on their desk.

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And in the image I posted, you can certainly see the lips of the people. Zoe would be a little further back, but it would be unmistakable that she was talking, and you would have to be very thick not to realize she was either insane, or was talking to someone behind the fence.
Yeah, I'm not convinced of that as she was farther away (and quite frankly, that image looks too good be to a standard surveillance camera).

But even if they could see her lips move, so what?
She was talking to herself or maybe singing or she was talking on her phone.
I've certainly seen that before on the street.

Since the Police have no idea that someone was there behind the fence, why would they think she was talking to someone behind the fence?
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And she did not "walk" around the fence, she dashed.
Watch it again. She most certainly did not "dash" around the fence.
She walked. Maybe a little quickly but hey, the train was coming and she wanted to get up to the line to be ready to board.

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There is no doubt whatsoever that her behavior would look very strange. Any investigator who did not seriously consider the possibility of homicide would be terribly negligent.
You say that because we, the audience, know about her relationship with Frank Underwood and we know that he was there and murdered her in cold blood.

Show that surveillance recording to anyone who has no knowledge of that and it wouldn't look like murder or even that strange.

If someone took these suspicions to the police, they'd more likely think that the person making the claim was strange.
And I'm sure that the DC Police Department is extremely overworked and doesn't have the time or manpower to look at this tragic accident closer.

Not without something than Lucas' question.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:42 PM   #67
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You say that because we, the audience, know about her relationship with Frank Underwood and we know that he was there and murdered her in cold blood.

Show that surveillance recording to anyone who has no knowledge of that and it wouldn't look like murder or even that strange.
But any competent investigator would look at more than just the footage of her "jumping" in front of the train. They'd look at all the footage of her from when she entered the station. And when Lucas came to ask, they'd show him more than just those few seconds. And if they didn't, Lucas would ask to see more than those few seconds, because as a reporter, and one that knows she was murdered, he'd want to see all of the footage, not just that tiny piece.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:21 AM   #68
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But any competent investigator would look at more than just the footage of her "jumping" in front of the train. They'd look at all the footage of her from when she entered the station. And when Lucas came to ask, they'd show him more than just those few seconds. And if they didn't, Lucas would ask to see more than those few seconds, because as a reporter, and one that knows she was murdered, he'd want to see all of the footage, not just that tiny piece.
Yes, that is exactly right and absolutely obvious. I cannot believe anyone is arguing with us about this.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:35 AM   #69
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But any competent investigator would look at more than just the footage of her "jumping" in front of the train. They'd look at all the footage of her from when she entered the station. And when Lucas came to ask, they'd show him more than just those few seconds. And if they didn't, Lucas would ask to see more than those few seconds, because as a reporter, and one that knows she was murdered, he'd want to see all of the footage, not just that tiny piece.
I am talking about the entire video.

Since the police have no idea anyone else was there, what does the whole video show that would make them investigate?

Zoe playing with her phone, maybe talking a bit to herself or her phone and then walking around the fence and off camera.

What about that constitutes suspicious circumstances?

What evidence is there on that video?

Oh sure, if this was a CSI show, the slightest irregularity would prompt a thorough investigation and give David Caruso a chance to put on his sunglasses, but House of Cards is more likely based in a reality where the DC Police are simply way too overworked to give this more than a cursory look.

Besides, if the police actually investigate, what is there for Lucas to do?

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Old 02-20-2014, 10:09 AM   #70
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She was an up and coming journalist, in the public eye, just been on CNN. I think they'd have looked into it a bit more.

Also, the cop said to the boyfriend "you can watch it a million times" which I know meant "watch it over and over and you won't change your mind" but wouldn't it also imply "here, sit here and watch it over and over so you'll finally leave me alone."

And wouldn't the boyfriend rewind a bit more...

*shrug*


Oh, and she wasn't going around the fence to get in line for the train. The train wouldn't be going at full speed anywhere near where people get on.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:13 AM   #71
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I am talking about the entire video.

Since the police have no idea anyone else was there, what does the whole video show that would make them investigate?
That some shady dude went back there and didn't come out. It probably happened 10 minutes before she died.

And perhaps that same shady dude in the same outfit cased out the place hours or days earlier.

Again, *shrug*

I think they could have just had the cop say a few more words and we'd have a tighter story.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:11 PM   #72
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I don't think I noticed before that Frank's initials are "F. U."
In the British version it was Francis Urquhart. Evidently the writers didn't think that surname would play well here.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:59 PM   #73
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And the second thing that made me doubt is that the alleged rapist kissed her on the cheek. That seems entirely too brazen for someone with so much to lose if she gets provoked into speaking against him.
"We dated at Harvard. Well, maybe that's too strong, it lasted about 5 minutes."
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:25 AM   #74
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Screenshot of security footage

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I am talking about the entire video.

Since the police have no idea anyone else was there, what does the whole video show that would make them investigate?

Zoe playing with her phone, maybe talking a bit to herself or her phone and then walking around the fence and off camera.

What about that constitutes suspicious circumstances?

What evidence is there on that video?
Maybe it is in fact too far away for the camera too pick up her movements but how about this screenshot then!



Behind where the guy on the right edge of the screen is standing is exactly where Frank left the station, blatantly on camera. Also remember that everyone packed near the train once it arrived because someone had just jumped, there was no one in between Frank and the Camera so there was a clear shot there.

At that point it's pretty obvious where Frank just came from and what he did even if they can't actually identify him.

I know it's nitpicking the episode but it seems dumb to show the audience the security footage with mistakes in it, it's pointless.
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:26 PM   #75
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Come on, Lucas.
We know you're obsessed with Zoe Barnes but really, coming up with these conspiracy theories that a fine upstanding man like Frank Underwood killed her?

Really?
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