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Old 02-17-2014, 10:31 AM   #31
FishTail74
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It was a pain to un-wire things but I did, and discovered that the low-end TiVo Roamio power supply (brick) is only rated for 24 watts. And the ORIGINAL 500GB TiVo HDD is less than 2w, vs more than 8w on the upgraded HDD. So Being as the power supply is marginally strong enough to sustain the TiVo, it is possible at start up it struggles even more, and maybe this is the cause of the internal Blue light no-start-up issue.

This suggest that maybe the unit is fine, and I'm simply pushing it's power limit, so I think I'll keep it. I really don't want to return it because if I do I'll loose out on more than $200 of savings that I can't get any longer. (paid $400 total, for Roamio unit w/ LTS, due to a very special circumstance with an older unit, that they won't honor any more)

I appreciate all the good suggestions! But if anyone does directly know the answers to my questions, please do still reply. -Thanks!


Un-Answered Questions:
1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
(Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)

Last edited by FishTail74 : 02-17-2014 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Updated based on inspection...
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:17 PM   #32
lessd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishTail74 View Post
It was a pain to un-wire things but I did, and discovered that the low-end TiVo Roamio power supply (brick) is only rated for 24 watts. And the ORIGINAL 500GB TiVo HDD is less than 2w, vs more than 8w on the upgraded HDD. So Being as the power supply is marginally strong enough to sustain the TiVo, it is possible at start up it struggles even more, and maybe this is the cause of the internal Blue light no-start-up issue.

This suggest that maybe the unit is fine, and I'm simply pushing it's power limit, so I think I'll keep it. I really don't want to return it because if I do I'll loose out on more than $200 of savings that I can't get any longer. (paid $400 total, for Roamio unit w/ LTS, due to a very special circumstance with an older unit, that they won't honor any more)

I appreciate all the good suggestions! But if anyone does directly know the answers to my questions, please do still reply. -Thanks!


Un-Answered Questions:
1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
(Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)
Other people have upgraded the low end Roamio with 3Tb drive without problems, why yours ?
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:12 PM   #33
FishTail74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
Other people have upgraded the low end Roamio with 3Tb drive without problems, why yours ?
I said "suspicion", because I don't know if this is the problem or not, I only suspect it.... But being as my problem is intermittent and only at start-up, an increase of 25% more demand on the power supply, it's not unreasonable to suspect it's on the edge of their "enough" power limit. Factor in that maybe my Towns VAC is on the low end vs the average, and the fact that I have something like 8 things plugged in to that 1 outlet (which might be above average)... to suspect that might pull the voltage down low enough to trip the problem half the time, isn't that far fetched. But I'm still hoping someone with facts will answer my below question, vs the rest of us speculating.

Un-Answered Questions:
1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
(Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:10 PM   #34
unitron
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If you've already replaced the original drive, even temporarily, then technically you've voided your warranty already.

Can you tell by looking at the original power supply for that TiVo if it puts out AC or DC and at what voltage?

Because if it's just a +12V DC supply, find another one (+12V DC supply) with the same connector (with the polarity wired the same way!!!!!) and more current capability and see if that makes the blue light go away.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:08 PM   #35
FishTail74
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Un-Answered Question...

Thanks, but I'm not looking for any more random test ideas. It's an intermittent problem, and sometimes it takes a half hour just to get the problem to happen. So proving the problem isn't there, isn't easy.

At this point I'm just hoping to leave it clear that my question is still unanswered, in hopes that some day someone might come along with the answer. But thank you all for the input.


Un-Answered Question:
1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
(Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:46 PM   #36
ringo574
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I just got that internal blue light on my Roamio its on the top, right of the box close to the front.

This morning I lost the picture on my box but the sound was still working so I decided to reset the box by unplugging it. After I plug it back in I got no response and the blue light on top came on and stayed on. I unplugged it again this time waited for about 30sec then plugged it back in and it rebooted and started up. Its working now.

I have the Roamio I got it about a year ago and I upgraded the HD to a 3TB HD when I first got it.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:12 AM   #37
telemark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishTail74 View Post
Un-Answered Question:
1) What's the INTERNAL blue light (on the motherboard) mean ?
(Current suspicion is it means "start-up prevented, due to low power", since upgraded HDD is 6.5 watts more, and power brick has only a 24 watt total rating)
I'll answer it but leave you with more questions.

There's actually 4 internal LED lights on a Base Roamio board.
Green
Blue
Red
Yellow

Blue and Green are used during booting probably as checkpoint indicators. I'll elaborate.

Embedded developers code on a PC and upload to the board the build for testing. Many times, a bug you introduced will prevent it from booting all the way, so you put statements in the code at critical operations to indicate it's gotten past that hump. When there's a terminal, you can print a detailed progress, but without, when you just have the board you resort to these LED indicator lights, as a broad stroke.

That's a long way of me trying to say, the BLUE LIGHT is not an error message per se, everyone's Roamio does that. The trouble is it does not turn off, so it was the last OK message [ "I'm here" ] to make it out, before getting stuck or derailed.

From my memory, the stages during a normal boot are:
a) Blue external + Red external LED's then
b) Blue internal LED then
c) Green internal LED then
d) Green external + Yellow external flashing LED's

d) is what we call Kickstart entry, so the c->d transition is triggered by a startup script

The Roamio hardware boots really fast so it's hard to eye for certain what's doing when, without some contraption.

I'm going to guess from experience, the b->c transition is an instruction in the bootloader.

That might leave the a->b transition, an instruction (if it can be called that) in the verifier (for the bootloader). That's a guess, or more precisely a deduction on shaky information.

The off->a transition may be a hardwire for when chips reach ready.

The best way to find out for sure is someone who consistently gets a stuck blue light, would need a TTL serial cable monitoring for a descriptive error message being printed out.

If someone's box does this reliably and wants to volunteer, I'll write out the directions. Requires a USB computer near by. It also might not say anything. If it's too early, it might use a lower level communication channel.

Alternatively, the box is not 100%... if you contact Tivo Support and can have the details passed to Engineering (if it appears it's not in their error troubleshooting script) the developers should easily recognize it, but you might not get a better explanation than it needs to be replaced.

New questions:
Why does the first stage have two LED's ? Is it two CPU cores, two chips?
Where is the bootloader stored that it could not pass verification sometimes?
When does the Red or Yellow LED get used? Unlocked bootloader? An Error condition?

Last edited by telemark : 07-31-2014 at 09:28 AM.
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