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Old 02-02-2014, 09:02 AM   #1
fredct
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3 MoCA questions

Quick setup background: I have a Roamio Pro I just bought hooked up via Ethernet and a Premier XL (not '4') upstairs currently on WiFi that I was to move to MoCa to support streaming. I also have FiOS internet (and tv).

1) Is the TiVo MoCA Adapter really a TiVo product or do they just resell another brand? I ask because I can't find "TiVo MoCA adapter" on Amazon or other major electronic websites. And when I look at the picture on the TiVo store, and squint real hard, I think I can see it saying "ActionTec". If TiVo is reselling ActionTec or something, what model is it?

2) I have FiOS, so I'm thinking of using my FiOS ActionTec router to manage the MoCA network directly rather than using the Roamio as a bridge. That seems slightly better, because if the Roamio is ever rebooting or otherwise has issues, the Premier in unaffected.

However, I can't find instructions on how to turn on the MoCA LAN on my FiOS router. That seems strange. Is that because it's just always on?? Or otherwise can someone point me to instructions on how to activate it? When I go into my router's setup, find my Network (Home/Office), click Settings, the Coax connection has a checkmate but is labeled 'down'. Is this just because it has no devices to talk to? Otherwise how do I activate it??

3) Security - okay, so I get that since I have FiOS in a single family home, I don't have much of an issue here. But is there a reason not to activate encryption anyway? Just out of paranoia in case someone breaks into my garage? Is there any issue doing it with my setup? Does it matter if I have MoCA from the ActionTec or from the Roamio as a bridge?
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:09 AM   #2
eboydog
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The Tivo Moca adapter is a actiontec product if you are referring to the Moca adapters TiVo sells on their website.

From my understanding, if you have fios service, you already have Moca on your home network. Easy way to test would be to disconnect the ethernet on your Roamio and I believe you have to tell your Roamio pro to use Moca. If that works then you can get a MOCA adapter for your Premiere.

If your fios router doesn't enable Moca on your home network, you should be able to tell your Roamio to act as you described as a bridge but again, chances are you have Moca active on your home network and just don't know it. Your cable provider should be able to confirm that.

As far as encryption is concerned I guess you could but you might want to check with your cable provider as that might break their Moca at their router but if wanted to establish your own on a separate frequency, you could. Check my previous post about Moca adapter frequency as that I a advanced confirmation that most home networks don't require but in theory you could hard configure your Moca adapters and enable encryption only on the devices you wanted to as long as the Moca frequencies you used didn't conflict with what I already in use. By default the Actiontec adapters auto detect the frequency of existing Moca adapters and latch on to that channel, if you want to configure Moca channels and encryption for the Actiontec adapters, you will need to download their config utility from their website (again most people do not need this utility and it can make your Moca taste bad if used incorrectly).
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:24 AM   #3
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I meant to add, yes if your fios router has Moca enabled on the lan side, it's perfectly correct for it to show the enterface down for there isn't at least one other device connected to it.

Also, while you didn't mention it, you shouldn't add a poe filter to your point of entry as that kill your fios. Your cable provider handles that issue and the only privacy concern you have is if you enable encryption which your fios router may or may not support on your home network side. If it doesn't support it then that's were you must manually create your own Moca network by selecting the adapter's Moca channel and encryption key. This would require using something else to establish a ethernet /Moca bridge other than your existing fios router.

Check out this for more info:
https://www.actiontec.com/192.html#soft
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:23 AM   #4
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Thanks!

A few followups...

Topic 1, do you know what ActionTec MoCA model TiVo is selling? Just looking to do some price comparisons.

To topic 3, yes I know that I don't need a POE filter, but thanks . As for encryption, it appears the FiOS router supports it too (I see it the settings), but that gets me back to...

Topic 2, I tried to enable the MoCA from the Roamio Pro (great idea!). The LAN coax light came on on the router, but I got a NO2 error on setup. Beyond that though, it totally froze up my router. I mean completely. I couldn't access internet or the router config pages. Even a reboot didn't help. I eventually got it back working by unplugging the Coax line from the router, which saved it enough to get into the config part to turn off LAN Coax, and then plug the coax cable back in.

I realized that the Roamio was apparently still set up to create its own MoCA network (which I played with yesterday) which could conflict. So I turned that off and tried again (the Roamio's network screen said only Ethernet, not Ethernet + moca). But upon doing 'Connect our MoCA' again, same thing, total freeze of the router.

Any idea why? I realize I may have to contact Verizon on this on. Maybe I'll get a new router out of it, heh.

Last edited by fredct : 02-02-2014 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Clarity
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Old 02-02-2014, 11:40 AM   #5
True Colors
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I am having some problems with Moca/Fios/Roamio as well

From what I have been told, your home network can only hane one active Moca bridge. So if your FIOS router is acting as a Moca bridge and then you also try to enable the Roamio as a moca bridge then a problem will occur.

Supposedly FIOS automatically has moca turned on. But I am not so sure that this is the case. I am just now digging into it but in my case it is not so easy as people say.

TC
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Old 02-02-2014, 12:31 PM   #6
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As far as the fios router locking up, I have no idea but I know that the Moca channels have to match which means that if your fios router is broadcasting on Channel 1 then the Tivo must either be set to auto detect or manually set to channel 1.

Yes, having more than one bridge will create problems (spanning tree loop) if two or more bridges are using the same channel/frequency, if you configure each bridge to use a specific channel with corresponding adapter matched to each gateway, you can run technically separate Moca networks on the same physical cable but again, this requires using the advanced config which in most people situation's, isn't necessary(the more advanced design, the utility I speak of is required for the actiontec adapters).

Typically each physical Moca Coax interface can only be configured for one channel/frequency with the exception of some routers which even then, only one channel can be selected for the internal home network side. A common troubleshooting practice for Moca networks is to manually configure a lower moca frequency as higher the frequency, the greater the possibility of communication issues, from what I have seen the typical default is the lowest possible frequency and can be substantially increased.

The Westell router I'm using labels the possible channels 15 through 29 in odd number steps (15,17,19,21,23,25,27,29) with matching frequencies starting at 1150 and ending at 1500 mhz.

The Actiontec ECB2500 adapter labels the channels as D1,D2,D3,D4,D5,D6,D7,D8 with using the same frequencies as the Westell router starting at 1150 and ending at 1500 mhz.

With the labeling of the channels of on the Westell router, that implies there are additional channels but only the 8 are approved per the mca compliance.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Colors View Post
I am having some problems with Moca/Fios/Roamio as well

From what I have been told, your home network can only hane one active Moca bridge. So if your FIOS router is acting as a Moca bridge and then you also try to enable the Roamio as a moca bridge then a problem will occur.
Nope, not true, you can have multiple bridges, you just can't have them bridging the same network segments nor should you.
My FiOS router supplies LAN over the MoCA, and then in the living room I have MoCA only and the Roamio is a bridge that feeds the ethernet in the media cabinet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Colors View Post
Supposedly FIOS automatically has moca turned on. But I am not so sure that this is the case. I am just now digging into it but in my case it is not so easy as people say.
Verizon uses MoCA with their own Cable boxes and DVRS for their whole home packages, so yes, it's on by default in a VZ FiOS installation.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredct View Post
Topic 2, I tried to enable the MoCA from the Roamio Pro (great idea!). The LAN coax light came on on the router, but I got a NO2 error on setup. Beyond that though, it totally froze up my router. I mean completely. I couldn't access internet or the router config pages. Even a reboot didn't help. I eventually got it back working by unplugging the Coax line from the router, which saved it enough to get into the config part to turn off LAN Coax, and then plug the coax cable back in.

I realized that the Roamio was apparently still set up to create its own MoCA network (which I played with yesterday) which could conflict. So I turned that off and tried again (the Roamio's network screen said only Ethernet, not Ethernet + moca). But upon doing 'Connect our MoCA' again, same thing, total freeze of the router.
The ethernet cable running to the router should be removed. If it's not, do that. Then set the network connection to just "Moca". Then if needed, reboot the Tivo.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 02-02-2014 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 02-02-2014, 02:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Colors View Post
Supposedly FIOS automatically has moca turned on. But I am not so sure that this is the case. I am just now digging into it but in my case it is not so easy as people say.TC
If the router is connected via coax, moca is enabled for sure.
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Old 02-02-2014, 04:42 PM   #10
fredct
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Note

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
The ethernet cable running to the router should be removed. If it's not, do that. Then set the network connection to just "Moca". Then if needed, reboot the Tivo.
Yup that was it! I actually figured it out by playing around, probably about the same time you posted this . I don't understand why that totally froze the router (does anyone??), but it appeared to be working once I unplugged the Ethernet. I had to then run out to my in-laws for the Super Bowl, so I'll experiment more later.

Last unanswered question then is: does anyone know the ActionTec MoCA Adapter model they sell on TiVo.com? So I can shop around?
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by fredct View Post
Yup that was it! I actually figured it out by playing around, probably about the same time you posted this . I don't understand why that totally froze the router (does anyone??), but it appeared to be working once I unplugged the Ethernet. I had to then run out to my in-laws for the Super Bowl, so I'll experiment more later.

Last unanswered question then is: does anyone know the ActionTec MoCA Adapter model they sell on TiVo.com? So I can shop around?
In a non-technical nutshell, there can only be 1 moca host on a network or else there's a packet war. May have something to do with the ONT also. But even in a non-fios setup, things can get screwy when there's a competition.

I think what Tivo sells is the ECB2500C. The $50 Tivo price is pretty much the best we can all find.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:00 PM   #12
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One can have more than one gateway, each gateway must have a separate channel with the adapters paired uniquely to each gateway. This type of configuration permits the full bandwidth on each paired set. It's just like running such on two separate cables without the need to have multiple coax cables.

I have such right now, a TiVo, xbox and a buffalo NAS connected by Moca on the same physical cable. The tivo and xbox are served by one gateway back to my home network while the NAS is on another gateway. This allows the NAS to use the full Moca bandwidth without competing with the Tivo and xbox. There is no loop or "packet war" as the two Moca gateways cannot see the other because the two are physically operating on different channels.

Is this overkill? Perhaps but I did it for two reasons, one to see if I could and second, I have backups running to the NAS and have a unique network configuration (with tagged VLANs that are routed). My network is much more advanced as I tried to describe, THIS IS NOT NECESSARY for 97% of home networks.

If you simply have a TiVo devices on your home network, there isn't really a need to have two or more Moca gateways but if you are into data networks and know what you are are doing, multiple Moca gateways are very possible, just not for the average Tivo user who needs to their Tivo boxes to function on their home network.

Yes, multiple Moca gateways will not work if the two or more are on the same channel/frequency, that will create multiple paths to a device which is probably why FredCT's router locked up, for awhile there were two paths to his Tivo, one though the ethernet port on and suddenly one the Moca when he enable it; unplugging the ethernet took that loop away. Most home networks do not have loop detection abilities, unlike enterprise networking which I'm rather proficient in.
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