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Old 01-05-2015, 12:11 AM   #1
daithen
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New Roamio -- Some programs stop recording early

Hello,
I just upgraded one of my two Premieres to a new Roamio Plus. So now I have a premiere and a roamio using cable cards. The Roamio has been periodically stopping recording about 15 min early. This has been way too frequent. In the past week it did it during Major Crimes and then tonight it stopped at 47 minutes during both The Good Wife and Resurrection, the exact same point on both programs. The Roamio is still receiving Video, when I saw this on my Premiere once in a while but was because I stopped receiving Video and had to restart the Premiere box. I restarted my box yesterday. The rest of the evening recordings recorded the full program without issue. When I check history there is nothing listed for these partial programs. Any ideas before I start looking into having Tivo replace the box.

Thanks
Tom

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Old 01-05-2015, 09:37 AM   #2
BigJimOutlaw
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If this has been an ongoing thing across boxes, that would suggest it's a signal strength issue of some kind from the cableco.

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Old 01-05-2015, 10:23 AM   #3
pshivers
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I've recently resolved a very similar issue on my Roamio Pro.

I first started noticing random recording being cut short occasionally, that became more and more frequent. Then while watching a show my screen would go black, but I could still see the TiVo menus. Discovered I was temporarily losing all channels and any recording in progress would stop at that point.

Solution was to install a new CableCard, which was trial in itself as Charter has a very limited supply of the appropriate CableCards for Tivo Roamio Pro (6 tuner firmware requirements).

My Roamio has been working perfectly again for about a week now!

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Old 01-05-2015, 11:00 AM   #4
daithen
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I don't think it is a signal or cable card issue. This is the same cable card that was in the Premiere I upgraded and never had this problem with the premiere. I was also recording a show at the same time on my other premiere box and it completed recording just fine and did not cut off anything. I am at a loss. It seems like the all tuners on the Roamio just for some reason stop recording. It strabge that everytime this has happened its been about 45 minutes into an hour long recording. I am wondering if the Roamio doesn't like the Season Passes I transferred to it online from the old box. Other than that I am at a complete loss.

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Old 01-05-2015, 11:13 AM   #5
BigJimOutlaw
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Switch box locations and see if the problem follows the box, to rule out a line issue.

On the Roamio what kind of Signal Strength and SNR numbers do you see under System Info > DVR Diagnostics?

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Old 01-05-2015, 11:46 AM   #6
daithen
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I checked last night and it was a 39

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Old 01-05-2015, 11:49 AM   #7
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I will try switching locations to rule it out just to be safe, I doubt it will follow the line to the other DVR since my previous premiere never had this problem, only started after I installed the Roamio.

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Old 01-05-2015, 12:23 PM   #8
pshivers
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I would not be so quick to rule out the CableCard, mine had been working perfectly for over a year. They do go bad on occasion....

It's not a big deal to swap in a new one once you have located a replacement card, Tech should be able to handle it in less than 20 minutes or you can do it yourself as long as tech support over the phone is knowledgeable enough to setup up a replacement CableCard once you have installed it in your Tivo.

You could even try swapping the Card with your other TiVo and see if th problem follows the Card, again you will need to contact support to pair the cards with the correct Tivo...

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Old 01-05-2015, 12:50 PM   #9
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Thanks that will probably be one of the last things I try is to try a new cable card before calling to have them replace the unit.

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Old 01-06-2015, 12:06 AM   #10
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I contacted Tivo and they said my SNR was too high at 39. It should be below 35, he said he thinks the Tivo may be overheating due to too strong a signal. Not sure why this wasnt/isnt an issue with the Premieres. I have an amplifier on my line I am going to remove that and see if that lowers the SNR and fixes the issue. Will do that in the morning. Happened again tonight 2 programs stopped 4 minutes in good thing I caught it and could restart recording them.

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Old 01-06-2015, 06:48 AM   #11
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While I don't feel 39db is that high, I have noticed that despite its external power supply, the area around the rf connector is very warm. My signal is 85 to 90 and the snr is 36 or 37 on all tuners. I have a Radio Shack 1 to 4 amplified splitter that feeds several devices. If the problem is happening on most recordings is should be possible to monitor the signal during the recording to watch for possible variations. Boring, but possible.

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Old 01-06-2015, 10:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshivers View Post
It's not a big deal to swap in a new one once you have located a replacement card, Tech should be able to handle it in less than 20 minutes or you can do it yourself as long as tech support over the phone is knowledgeable enough to setup up a replacement CableCard once you have installed it in your Tivo.

You could even try swapping the Card with your other TiVo and see if th problem follows the Card, again you will need to contact support to pair the cards with the correct Tivo...
I'll have to disagree with this a bit, at least if you're talking Verizon.

I've swapped cablecards a bunch of times. The most recent was a bit over a year ago, I'd guess.

It has never been smooth, and has never taken anything less than extraordinary measures, including multiple VZ support escalations. Usually getting the "repairing" to work "mostly" is relatively easy. But the last straw has been the HBO/Cinemax issues. The last 4 cards I've done have never taken less than 8 hrs each to get them working completely. The problem is always at Verizon, in that while they usually get the host/card ID paired correctly, they screw up the data ID repeatedly. And the Data ID changes. At this point, I never "swap" cards. I simply order new ones and return the old ones. That seems to go a bit smoother.

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Old 01-06-2015, 10:59 AM   #13
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While I don't feel 39db is that high, I have noticed that despite its external power supply, the area around the rf connector is very warm. My signal is 85 to 90 and the snr is 36 or 37 on all tuners. I have a Radio Shack 1 to 4 amplified splitter that feeds several devices. If the problem is happening on most recordings is should be possible to monitor the signal during the recording to watch for possible variations. Boring, but possible.
I'd agree that 39db isn't that high. The problem is unless you put a meter on it, we really don't know what it is. What the Tivo reports will almost certainly be different than what a different device - or even a different model Tivo - reports.

To me, the problem here remains as the tuner design of the Tivos, which continue to be far more sensitive in terms of their operating range than do other devices.

What I mean by this is that I routinely have to swap attenuators in front of my Tivos, as the signal will change a little and the "optimal" range of Signal Strength/SNR for the Tivo is pretty friggin narrow IMHO. So, I have a big grab bag of different strength attenuators.

OTOH, I have a VZ DVR (free for life on my contract). The first one I had was installed in 2007. In 2013 VZ swapped it out simply because they didn't want to support that model any more, and had moved to MPEG4 for some channels, which the old unit didn't support. I've never experienced pixelation, etc on either of the VZ units. Never had to use an attenuator.

I think what you're experiencing may just be another artifact of the Tivo tuner issue. I know not everyone will agree with this, but all I can say is if it were not true, the attenuator situation on all the Tivos I've had (HDs, Premiers, Roamios) would not have happened and/or the VZ units would have experienced at least a tiny amount of the same issue.

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Old 01-06-2015, 11:29 AM   #14
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Reported by the Sony TV on the same drop (no cable card) is 35.8db SNR. My Premiere, on a different drop, is 85-90 signal with 37-38db SNR. Both have the same low-level preamp. Cable modem also has 36db SNR, as does a different Sony TV on a different line. I'll stick with my numbers without better equipment to test with which I couldn't afford anyhow.

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Old 01-06-2015, 11:31 AM   #15
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Yeah, the SNR issue has been beaten to death here on the forums.....mainly because for the most part it's a crap response from Tivo. I'm betting if you stood over a support person at Tivo, their little cheatsheet would have #1 - blame the SNR.

The high SNR on the Roamio is usually the Roamio's doing.....not the line. I have a Plus that has 40 SNR and it's been fine. When I plugged in a Comcast DVR to the same line, the SNR was reported lower and fine. Even had a tech at one point test the line and say it's fine.

I have a Basic upstairs that reports SNR and levels that are within the range Tivo likes (37 SNR 95% levels). I tested one day by swapping the Tivos, and sure enough, the SNR and levels followed the Tivos.....so it's not the line.

-Kevin

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Old 01-06-2015, 11:40 AM   #16
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kbmb, that has been my experience as well.

The only thing I'd disagree with you about is this.

I think the CSR cheat sheet has:

#1: Blame the customer network.

#2: Blame SNR


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Old 01-06-2015, 02:34 PM   #17
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I tend to agree with the blame game. I removed my amplifier and the roamio shows it now at 35. Did another test and once again 2 programs stopped recording in the middle of the program.Most of the programs finished completely but I did encounter the problem again on 2 channels at the exact same time again. Now is the Roamio more sensitive or is it a bad box.I keep going back to the problem started once I replaced 1 of my premeires with the roamio.

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Old 01-06-2015, 02:39 PM   #18
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I tend to agree with the blame game. I removed my amplifier and the roamio shows it now at 35. Did another test and once again 2 programs stopped recording in the middle of the program.Most of the programs finished completely but I did encounter the problem again on 2 channels at the exact same time again. Now is the Roamio more sensitive or is it a bad box.I keep going back to the problem started once I replaced 1 of my premeires with the roamio.
I'd let Tivo know you did this and see what they say (which will probably be useless, but you never know).

At this point to me it sounds like it's either down to the Cablecard or the Tivo.

Do all the Cablecard diagnostics screens check out with having the card paired correctly? I'm assuming so or else I'm guessing nothing would tune.

Does the Tivo report anything under recording history as to why they stopped?

Are you ever watching TV while this happens to see exactly what is going on? I know probably not since you'd have to sit through commercials

-Kevin

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Old 01-06-2015, 02:58 PM   #19
daithen
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I am about to call them. No I am not watching anything on the Roamio when it stops.

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Old 01-06-2015, 05:50 PM   #20
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They said to check the firmware version of the cablecard, remove/replace tuning adapter and if all else fails replace the cablecard.

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Old 01-06-2015, 05:57 PM   #21
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They said to check the firmware version of the cablecard, remove/replace tuning adapter and if all else fails replace the cablecard.
I would post all the current Cablecard and Tuning Adapter specs (firmware, status, etc) here along with what cable co. you are with and where you are located. That way others can post what they have working if they are on similar systems.

You can get that info on the screens in the instructions on this page under Troubleshooting:
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2566

Because you are going from a Premiere with fewer tuners, there is a chance that your CC or TA might not have the correct firmware to handle the 6 tuners.

I'm on Comcast NE, and don't use a TA....so I won't be much help there.

-Kevin

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Old 01-06-2015, 06:02 PM   #22
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When I get home I will do that....I will be removing the tuning adapter since the channels I watch mostly do not need the TA, but I will post cablecard stats. I am using Cox Communication in Phoenix, AZ

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Old 01-11-2015, 03:53 PM   #23
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Well the problem seems to resolved itself. After I got the SNR number to 35 I ran two tests and both tests had one program that stopped in the middle with no history. That evening I came home but got home too late to remove my TA (recordings for the evening already started) I did confirm my cable card firmware was up to date. Watched it like a hawk and they all recorded successfully. I have run several tests and all my tests and recordings have all completed sucessfully. Not sure what resolved it but I am not complaining. Think I am going to leave well enough alone since it seems to be working now. (Although with my luck I will probably start having failures again after posting this hehe)

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Old 01-11-2015, 10:25 PM   #24
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Interesting fact..It happened again. This time is stopped when I had to to re-set up streaming to my iPad so I could download . I restarted recording. and the re-ran setup streaming on my iPhone. And when I did that the all recordings stopped again. Tried a third and fourth test and everytime I re-run streaming setup on my iOS device all recordings stop. I cant imagine this is normal behavior. I am thinking the box is bad.

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Old 04-16-2015, 11:04 AM   #25
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Tivo Roamio stops recording early.

Guys, SNR stands for Signal to Noise Ratio. This number represents the incoming signal strength versus the noise level. The lower the signal strength the lower the SNR will be. SNR is a measurement of how well the system performs since the signal must always be stronger than the noise level or you won't receive anything except noise. In EVERY case the HIGHER this number the better. What the Tivo rep said is clearly wrong.

On the flip side however, the signal strength itself can be too high. Ideally the signal level as measured in db should be 0 (zero). A negative reading means loss, a positive number means it' probably being amplified locally. A tech at the Time Warner cablecard support line (who got my cablecard working in less than two minutes after other had failed for two hours) informed me that they like to see a level of -8 to +8 and an SNR greater than +37 db. Anything less or more and the TA will be flaky.

Internet modem should also be between -8 and +8.

This information is born out by Arris and Cisco. FOr example the Cisco Tuning Adapter specs call for the tuner to be between -8 and +8 while -15 to +16 is acceptable but not recommended. In all cases the SNR must be greater than +30 db.

You can add or remove splitters or amplifiers on the line if you need to raise and clean up your signal level a bit.

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Old 07-20-2015, 11:25 AM   #26
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Exclamation roamio randomly stopping recording in mid program

roamio randomly stops recording in mid program; especially on long live events such as Tour de France and British Open

Tivo tech was OK with 40DB, SigStr 98%, 0 RS uncorrected, 0 RS corrected

Tivo tech opened incident # 04730360 for tracking

So all others having this problem should report their problem against the above incident number.

IMHO this is a Tivo software design bug: Tivo software error recovery should be robust enough to not stop recording if there is a temporary cableco signal blip; also Tivo software architecture should include capture of additional reason codes allowing enhanced tech support trace, diagnostics and problem source identification.

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Old 07-20-2015, 11:41 AM   #27
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roamio randomly stops recording in mid program; especially on long live events such as Tour de France and British Open

Tivo tech was OK with 40DB, SigStr 98%, 0 RS uncorrected, 0 RS corrected

Tivo tech opened incident # 04730360 for tracking

So all others having this problem should report their problem against the above incident number.

IMHO this is a Tivo software design bug: Tivo software error recovery should be robust enough to not stop recording if there is a temporary cableco signal blip; also Tivo software architecture should include capture of additional reason codes allowing enhanced tech support trace, diagnostics and problem source identification.
I admire your process and diagnostics. However, if you EVER see RS Corrected on a Roamio let me know. Also, what's your OOB SNR? My point: the diagnostics on a Roamio are broken and that makes finding a problem very hard. They're so bad TiVo even changed the name with the latest release.

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Old 07-20-2015, 11:59 AM   #28
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I admire your process and diagnostics. However, if you EVER see RS Corrected on a Roamio let me know. Also, what's your OOB SNR? My point: the diagnostics on a Roamio are broken and that makes finding a problem very hard. They're so bad TiVo even changed the name with the latest release.
I have RS Corrected on my Roamios (as well as RS Uncorrected at times).

-Kevin

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Old 07-20-2015, 12:01 PM   #29
L David Matheny
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roamio randomly stops recording in mid program; especially on long live events such as Tour de France and British Open

Tivo tech was OK with 40DB, SigStr 98%, 0 RS uncorrected, 0 RS corrected

Tivo tech opened incident # 04730360 for tracking

So all others having this problem should report their problem against the above incident number.

IMHO this is a Tivo software design bug: Tivo software error recovery should be robust enough to not stop recording if there is a temporary cableco signal blip; also Tivo software architecture should include capture of additional reason codes allowing enhanced tech support trace, diagnostics and problem source identification.
Your DVR Diagnostics numbers are essentially perfect. I just skimmed this thread again. When you people say your Roamio "stops recording", I assume you mean it also turns off the recording light just as if the recording had reached its programmed stop time. That would be an obvious bug. If the signal drops out, a TiVo will not capture anything for the duration of the dropout (of course), but it will stay in recording mode and resume capture if the signal returns before the stop time. I see that occasionally with OTA broadcasts.

OTOH, if you mean that the TiVo stops capturing even though it still has a signal, but the recording light goes out only at the programmed stop time, that could be a different bug analogous to the situation people have reported recently where playback of a recording freezes, possibly due to data glitches in the transport stream. That should never happen, of course. If loops in the data stream aren't impossible by definition, they should be detected promptly by the hardware or (as a last resort) by the software so that playback (or recording) continues.

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Old 07-20-2015, 12:03 PM   #30
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I have RS Corrected on my Roamios (as well as RS Uncorrected at times).

-Kevin
It must be me. I have a Premiere on the same feed that shows errors. On the Roamio it shows an OOB SNR of 380 dB. My Premiere shows 2 dB.

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