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Old 07-26-2014, 05:51 PM   #31
DancyMunchkin
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I guess that Tivo can get over those missing sales. Tivo is so profitable, who needs sales to Android users?
Tivo made a business decision. Customers need to decide where to spend their money, not decide to p & m on a discussion forum.
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Old 07-26-2014, 06:27 PM   #32
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Tivo made a business decision. Customers need to decide where to spend their money, not decide to p & m on a discussion forum.
P & M is one reason discussion forums exist. Are you new to the internet? And I did decide to spend my money on a Slingbox 350. Great decision I must say.
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:53 AM   #33
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P & M is one reason discussion forums exist. Are you new to the internet? And I did decide to spend my money on a Slingbox 350. Great decision I must say.
No, I am not new to the Internet, but you must be since you think this is a Slingbox discussion forum.
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:46 AM   #34
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No, I am not new to the Internet, but you must be since you think this is a Slingbox discussion forum.
You said that consumers must decide where to spend their money. I answered you with my decision. Sorry if the truth hurts you.
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Old 07-27-2014, 04:44 PM   #35
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Sorry if the truth hurts you.
moedaman isn't worth the trouble.

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Old 07-27-2014, 07:11 PM   #36
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moedaman isn't worth the trouble.
but he is correct
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:26 PM   #37
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Personally I'm hoping they roll out updated apps to use higher resolutions and to be able to not use the proxy for OOH streaming. I mean my iPhone has a screen resolution of 1136x640 and even with the best wireless network connection the best the Stream sends to it is 960x540, and my iPad Mini Retina has a screen resolution of 2048×1536 and even with the best wireless network connection the best the Stream sends to it is 1280x720 which isn't bad at all but still not utilizing the full potential the Stream is capable of.
The absolute maximum resolution is 1920x1080, so no matter what it would be less then your iPad. And given the screen size of the iPad you'd be very, very, hard pressed to see the difference between a 1280x720 and 1920x1080 stream, so why waste the bandwidth and encoding time?

If you really think there is a difference try it on your own. Download a show to your PC via TiVoToGo then use something like Handbreak to recode the exact same video to those two resolutions and see if you can actually see a difference when played on your iPhone/iPad. You almost certainly wont.

The only reason for them to increase the resolution would be if they supported AirPlay or HDMI out so you could watch on a big screen. They don't currently support that so saving bits and time are better options.
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:29 PM   #38
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Tivo made a business decision. Customers need to decide where to spend their money, not decide to p & m on a discussion forum.
At first I would have agreed with you. Back in September of 2012 when the Stream was released it made perfect sense that they only released for iOS. But then in November of that year a TiVo employee posted on this forum that they were working on Android support and their website listed Android support as "coming soon". Now here it is 2 years later and it's still not here. That's just crazy!
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:12 PM   #39
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It really is amazing that this is taking soooo long!
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:38 PM   #40
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That's just crazy!
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It really is amazing that this is taking soooo long!
The general consensus here seems to be a dedicated team would not need almost 2 years to complete the Android client, therefore there must be another explanation. If we assume the Tivo employee was not lying in November, 2012, then Tivo has made the business decision to either not release the Android client, they put the developers on other projects, e.g., Haxe, etc.

As was mentioned in another thread, there are so many versions of Android, Tivo could have decided they didn't want the support headaches from a product that wouldn't generate any revenue. Would you?

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Old 07-29-2014, 08:16 PM   #41
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If they're writing the Android client in house, a plausible explanation of what happened is they wanted the haxe rewrite done first. Perhaps it was higher priority or perhaps the haxe code will be used in the Android client.

Adobe suddenly dropped Flash support from Android 2 years ago, so if their original plans were based on that, it could explain what happened.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:17 PM   #42
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I still wonder if the issue is technological or some sort of business issue. They may have finished the app a year ago and just never released it because of some sort of business issue. We really have no idea, we're all just guessing at this point.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:18 AM   #43
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I don't really care what the reasons are. I just want it released on Android. There is no reason out there that could justify the long delay anyway. A two year delay is pretty much absurd.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:42 PM   #44
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Doesn't really want to

On iOS, TiVo goes to great pains to keep the app from running on jailbroken devices, and disallows video transmission over HDMI over Airplay or HDMI, most likely to keep from cutting into TiVo Mini sales.

I would suspect that the inability to restrict Android in this way is what has resulted in their reticence with the Android app.

Last edited by ejasons : 08-01-2014 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Fix misspelling
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:50 PM   #45
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Well Tivo needs to suck it up because Android now has 85% of market. Oh how things have rapidly changed in the past few years.

http://www.strategyanalytics.com/def...viewer&a0=9921


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Old 08-01-2014, 03:38 PM   #46
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DirecTV, a company that earns a 20% profit and has billions in revenue also released streaming to iOS and then took about 2 years to release streaming on Android. Any organization that chooses to stay strictly within the bounds of content protection (IOW they don't want to get sued by Fox, et.al.) finds it MUCH more difficult to code for Android than iOS. The huge variation in hardware, including storage, display size and resolution and processor, among Android devices makes producing almost any app more difficult on Android. Finally, the substantial changes that occur rather frequently in the Android SDK can frustrate development by requiring complete QA cycles on multiple versions on multiple devices.

The very thing that makes Android attractive to users (device variety, ability to customize the UI, etc.) makes it more challenging to developers (at least of anything beyond self contained apps). iOS is just simpler...only four screen sizes, one processor family, one launcher UI, etc. For fun, I wrote an iOS app last year...took me a week and it ran, without modification, on an iPhone 4s, an iPhone 5, an original iPad and an iPad 4 with Retina display. I then ported it to Android and got it running on one device in 5 days. I then gave it to 5 friends to test on their Android phones and tablets. It crashed on everyone one of them. That is why Android apps take so much longer.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:52 PM   #47
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I guess that Tivo can get over those missing sales. Tivo is so profitable, who needs sales to Android users?
It doesn't even work on IOS with cable systems that have MPEG 4. Only MPEG 2 is supported.
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Old 08-02-2014, 07:50 AM   #48
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It doesn't even work on IOS with cable systems that have MPEG 4. Only MPEG 2 is supported.
There are no "all MPEG 4" cable systems unless someone recently made the move, at most there are SOME channels you can't use the iOS app for on a system using MPEG 4.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:58 PM   #49
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There are no "all MPEG 4" cable systems unless someone recently made the move, at most there are SOME channels you can't use the iOS app for on a system using MPEG 4.
IIRC gamo62 uses a small regional cable company that does in fact use all MPEG4.
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:03 PM   #50
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[...] Tivo could have decided they didn't want the support headaches from a product that wouldn't generate any revenue. Would you?
That could explain the Roamio...
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:32 PM   #51
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IIRC gamo62 uses a small regional cable company that does in fact use all MPEG4.
Wow.. that's new then and certainly not average, this would be why I don't like to use phrases like "never"
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:04 AM   #52
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Well Tivo needs to suck it up because Android now has 85% of market. Oh how things have rapidly changed in the past few years.

http://www.strategyanalytics.com/def...viewer&a0=9921

Yes, while that looks interesting, everyone keeps forgetting that OS fragmentation and device fragmentation make this picture a little hazier.

100% of the ios devices sold since stream came out are capable of running the sw. There is *essentially* 1 version of the OS because when apple brings out a new version of the OS, ~90% are on that version in roughly 90 days. It is a pretty simple model.

On the android side, how many of those phones are running older splinters of the OS or not capable from a CPU standpoint to run the SW? It is far more complicated than raw numbers will expose.

I would like to see it on android as well, but to simply show the phone shipments (especially when most will probably use tablets) is disingenuous at best.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:11 AM   #53
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Yes, while that looks interesting, everyone keeps forgetting that OS fragmentation and device fragmentation make this picture a little hazier.

100% of the ios devices sold since stream came out are capable of running the sw. There is *essentially* 1 version of the OS because when apple brings out a new version of the OS, ~90% are on that version in roughly 90 days. It is a pretty simple model.

On the android side, how many of those phones are running older splinters of the OS or not capable from a CPU standpoint to run the SW? It is far more complicated than raw numbers will expose.

I would like to see it on android as well, but to simply show the phone shipments (especially when most will probably use tablets) is disingenuous at best.
Showing the phone shipments explain that Tivo should be putting the necessary resources into implementing streaming to Android. Everyone realizes there is fragmentation but we aren't debating the reason of the Stream working with Android at release. We are debating it working 2 years later.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:03 PM   #54
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I feel Android hardware fragmentation is blown out of proportion. The differences can be insulated when following best practices which a professional shop would already be doing anyway.

Samsung's shipment numbers are about the same as Apple's in the US, so even if you're going to be lazy, you could get away with targeting one company.

--

If I had to choose one thing that makes it technically harder on Android than iOS, it would be lack of native HLS (an Apple spec) support in Android OS. I believe the SW on the Stream speaks this and Android support for this was previously only via Flash.

http://www.overdigital.com/2013/07/1...ls-on-android/

Adobe has a quality solution for this now, but between when Flash was cancelled and recently, things have been dicey.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:58 AM   #55
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It is not the coding (while that is an issue), it is the QA, test and support. The matrix for apple is tiny, the matrix for android is huge. Also, the customer sat issues go through the roof when it works on someone's android, but not my android. Even saying you support on only Samsung, you end up with a bigger matrix than apple, and you end up with every other owner griping about not having support. It's a neutral to lose situation.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:05 AM   #56
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Well Tivo needs to suck it up because Android now has 85% of market. Oh how things have rapidly changed in the past few years.

http://www.strategyanalytics.com/def...viewer&a0=9921

First I am an Android user and would really like to see the stream work with the Android (as well as with iOS devices)

The numbers are interesting, however the best thing about statistics is you can always find a statistic that proves your point even if its incomplete. Taking the report at face value and assuming its correct (I have no reason to doubt the report) yes, 85% of all handsets world wide are now Android and that is a lot of market share.

Now what you are missing is TiVo aims its products solely at the US market which means TiVo needs to look at what their customer base will most likely be using and a quick Google search shows that the US handset market is only now tilting in Android's favor.

see: http://seekingalpha.com/article/2383...nding-headache
(page 2 of the article requires a login)

You can see how Apple's share dropped from 50% to 31% from January 2012 to January 2014 and Android in that same time frame increased from 42% to 62%. (again I'm taking the report at face value and I'm assuming the numbers are valid and other reports show similar numbers) But what this report also leaves out is how many of these handsets are actually capable of supporting video streaming if the software was available. TiVo knows that 100% of the Apple hardware can support streaming.

So yes at the time the Stream was released, Apple was the dominant player and according to research that I found online Apple users tend to be more multimedia centric so I'm not surprised TiVo focused solely on iOS since they knew they would get the most bang for the buck initially.

Lastly, I suspect (and have no way of confirming it) that TiVo's developers do their work on Apple products which again leads to focusing on making their products work with one specific brand first.

-TL
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:57 AM   #57
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If TiVo were really worried about fragmentation, they could easily write a Kindle Fire app as a way to prove out the Android platform while having a controlled set of variables. They could also just support Google's reference devices at first.

Fragmentation is a BS excuse at this point. Anyone citing fragmentation is just reaching for something.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:30 AM   #58
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Considering they demoed an App running on the Amazon Fire TV implementing most of the UI/Features of a Mini, I doubt there's a particularly technical reason behind there being no Android app available.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:14 PM   #59
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There are too many successful streaming media applications available on Android for TiVo to say "Oh no, Android is too hard to support". Bad excuse we're giving them here. Red herring.

If TiVo were super concerned they could publish a list of "compatible devices" and let others use it at their own risk. Yes, that draws some ire but not as much as absolutely no support.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:53 PM   #60
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So still no word? I still can't believe I was hoping that Stream Android support was going to happen before the end of the 2012 NFL season. The 2014 season is getting ready to start.
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