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Old 01-23-2014, 01:56 PM   #61
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They're concentrating on software. Great! So when are they going to fix longstanding bugs and UI misfeatures?
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:07 PM   #62
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It doesn't even have to be another vendor's logo on the box. They laid off some hardware design guys. There's no reason that those tasks couldn't be done by a contract design firm, and still manufactured by someone like Pace or Technicolor to TiVo's specifications with TiVo still handling the marketing, support, etc.
If they've been doing business with Pace since 2012, it wouldn't shock me if Pace starting making the Tivo hardware, with a "Pace DVR with Tivo technolory" or some other blurb to go with it. They would also probably do the design with Tivo's input.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:16 PM   #63
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There isn't a ton more they can really do on the hardware side anyway. The Roamio is almost perfect hardware wise. 6 tuners is the max for the CableCARD spec and 3TB is plenty of space for the average joe. They have built in transcoding and enough CPU power to run their UI at a respectible speed. I'm not sure there is anywhere else to go from here. Every feature I can think of that I'd want could be accomplished via software on the Roamio.

Although I was hoping we'd see an add-on OTA tuner for the Romaio Plus/Pro and maybe an add-on BD player, so I guess those hopes are dashed.
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:24 PM   #64
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maybe an add-on BD player, so I guess those hopes are dashed.
I dunno. If anything, this turn of events makes it more likely, as the only TiVos that had disc playback features were all from third-parties. Probably still pretty unlikely - BluRay disc sales volume still trails DVDs and TiVos are already super-niche. A BD TiVo would be a niche within a niche.

edit: I know you said add-on and I'm talking about a combo unit, but I think we agree the chances of either are slim
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:30 PM   #65
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Old 01-23-2014, 02:42 PM   #66
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There isn't a ton more they can really do on the hardware side anyway. The Roamio is almost perfect hardware wise. 6 tuners is the max for the CableCARD spec and 3TB is plenty of space for the average joe. They have built in transcoding and enough CPU power to run their UI at a respectible speed. I'm not sure there is anywhere else to go from here. Every feature I can think of that I'd want could be accomplished via software on the Roamio.

Although I was hoping we'd see an add-on OTA tuner for the Romaio Plus/Pro and maybe an add-on BD player, so I guess those hopes are dashed.
I would have to agree, since the Plus/Pro have GigE, WiFi and MoCA connectivity, so that covers all the network angles.

3TB is 450hr of HD storage and an obscene number of SD hours of various quality levels, so that should be enough for most people.

6 tuners should cover most people's simultaneous recording options and if you need more, get a second unit. Every other TV, hook a Mini to it. Streaming, both in and out-of-home is covered with the Plus/Pro.

Only thing I could see going forward might be larger drives and Amazon Prime Video streaming, though they don't need new hardware to get that right, just the right Amazon app that doesn't date back to the S3 days.

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Old 01-23-2014, 02:55 PM   #67
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I don't think this changes anything at all. It doesn't mean that they are going to start outsourcing the branding and design of products like they did in the DirecTiVo or Series 1/2 days. They got rid of 5 people who worked in hardware design, and they don't have any new hardware coming out for at least 2 years if not more. Doesn't mean we're instantly going to start seeing Toshiba or Pace or Sony TiVos. Just means that if and when they get ready to do something beyond Series 5, they'll have to figure something else out. They weren't likely to replace the Roamios in the next 3 years, and the next 3 years are going to be VERY consequential to the cable industry, the CableCard standard, and retail cable device landscape.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:05 PM   #68
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great now we can pay 20 dollars per box, per month to our cable companies FOREVER. for a 3BDR house plus LR thats around 4 boxes @ $80 bucks a month lets say 100 bucks after "DVR service" for a total of $1200 a year forever.
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:37 PM   #69
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I can see networking upgrades (802.11ac), more RAM (dirt cheap), and a faster CPU (pretty much SOP for new revs of an SOC).
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Old 01-23-2014, 03:40 PM   #70
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I don't think this changes anything at all. It doesn't mean that they are going to start outsourcing the branding and design of products like they did in the DirecTiVo or Series 1/2 days. They got rid of 5 people who worked in hardware design, and they don't have any new hardware coming out for at least 2 years if not more. Doesn't mean we're instantly going to start seeing Toshiba or Pace or Sony TiVos. Just means that if and when they get ready to do something beyond Series 5, they'll have to figure something else out. They weren't likely to replace the Roamios in the next 3 years, and the next 3 years are going to be VERY consequential to the cable industry, the CableCard standard, and retail cable device landscape.
IT means the end of days for retail Tivos. The last generation is the Roamio. That seems like a change.

Going forward there is little to no point in trying to sell $750 boxes to consumers so they can watch video when the tech is out there to watch time shifted video on a small form factor, efficient $80 AppleTV or Roku.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:26 PM   #71
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IT means the end of days for retail Tivos. The last generation is the Roamio. That seems like a change.
Nope. It doesn't mean the end of retail hardware.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:34 PM   #72
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I guess I am curious about the software direction. If they are going to be more in bed with the cable companies will the software throw all the non cable company things like Netflix/...

When you look at a Direct TV Tivo you know what I mean!
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:34 PM   #73
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There isn't a ton more they can really do on the hardware side anyway. The Roamio is almost perfect hardware wise. 6 tuners is the max for the CableCARD spec and 3TB is plenty of space for the average joe. They have built in transcoding and enough CPU power to run their UI at a respectible speed. I'm not sure there is anywhere else to go from here. Every feature I can think of that I'd want could be accomplished via software on the Roamio.

Although I was hoping we'd see an add-on OTA tuner for the Romaio Plus/Pro and maybe an add-on BD player, so I guess those hopes are dashed.
Down the road a bit they might make it a bit snappier, partly for the apps, but that's probably a matter of dropping some future (higher performance) compatible broadcom chipset in, or adding more RAM (for the software side to use for more agressing cacheing)

But neither of those require major hardware design chops.


Now, I would like it if TiVo could do a really good integrated blu-ray player (along the lines of the old Toshiba TiVo/DVD). Most blu-ray remotes / players still have lousy UIs; being able to use TiVo trick-play would be a nice touch. But there's probably not enough market to justify it
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:02 PM   #74
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great now we can pay 20 dollars per box, per month to our cable companies FOREVER. for a 3BDR house plus LR thats around 4 boxes @ $80 bucks a month lets say 100 bucks after "DVR service" for a total of $1200 a year forever.
Quote:
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IT means the end of days for retail Tivos. The last generation is the Roamio. That seems like a change.

Going forward there is little to no point in trying to sell $750 boxes to consumers so they can watch video when the tech is out there to watch time shifted video on a small form factor, efficient $80 AppleTV or Roku.
I think you guys are getting a little ahead of yourselves. While I agree that the stand alone DVR market isn't likely large enough to keep TiVo around, the reality is that the Roamio line was most likely developed for cable operators and will likely be used by them for years as they tend to not like changing equipment (which is also likely why the Premiere is receiving as much attention as it is from TiVo).

The reality is there is no reason for TiVo to need any new hardware for several (maybe even 3-4) years and at that time TiVo will go with the market, not lead it. If cable companies still want DVRs TiVo will update their hard ware and continue to provide whole home DVR system (along with new Stand alone versions). If the market does change and IP on demand/cloud storage becomes the norm then their will be little need for an updated "cable" DVR and TiVo will continue to sell Roamios for as long as there is a market for them.

In any event I don't think it really matter much to us, as long as cable/OTA exists in its current format we will be able to use Roamio DVRs, most of what needs to be fixed/updated is software and TiVo is still working on that.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:32 PM   #75
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Q and A with Tivo's Steve Wymer:
http://arstechnica.com/business/2014...ardware-plans/
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:52 PM   #76
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I'm skeptical about the whole NDVR business.

Rather have control over my recordings, not have them expire for whatever reasons off my cloud locker.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:16 PM   #77
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3rd Party Licensing

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Let someone else make the boxes and then let them buy the rights to put TiVo's software into them
I consider it good news if TiVo licenses their OS to third-party manufacturers so there's more competition to provide a better product. For example, Microsoft licenses Windows to many PC brands who each compete for our business by offering unique features, services, and technical support that result in faster responses to bug fixes and feature requests. TiVo will no longer dictate prices, service, and hardware choices like Apple does.

Imagine a Windows desktop PC that has the TiVo OS built in, similar to the Asus Duet with Windows and Android. A dedicated power supply keeps the DVR active 24/7 and you access your content through a TiVo Mini on each TV. You could have unlimited network-attached storage, Blu-Ray disc playback in the PC tray would respond to TiVo's familiar trickplay controls, and the upgradeable DVR module could be offered in an array of processor speeds, available tuners, and streaming options.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:19 PM   #78
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None of this signals any change at all to the way TiVo is doing business or will do business. The Roamios have a long life ahead of them and there's no way to know what TiVo will do for their next generation of retail DVRs, even if they hadn't laid off some number of employees that work on hardware.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:43 PM   #79
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This explains the email I receive with a big discount on the Romeo box and the fact that TiVo is giving away the Premiere box. Look like TiVo is unloading their inventory. The summer software update, assuming we receive it, will be the last TiVo update. This is sad day for all of us who supported TiVo.
when? I'd like to see a discount on Roamio's....they seem to be full price right now
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:48 AM   #80
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I'd like to see a discount on Roamio's
Customers who signed up for TiVo's survey panel received a courtesy coupon code by email and/or postal mail offering a discount for upgrading to Roamio.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=513822
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:38 AM   #81
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To me all this says is that they aren't planning on releasing a new box anytime soon.

And why would they? The offerings they have now should be good for at least 3-4 years.

Why pay hardware designers for years when you don't need them? It's a tough world out there.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:33 PM   #82
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...........Imagine a Windows desktop PC that has the TiVo OS built in, similar to the Asus Duet with Windows and Android. A dedicated power supply keeps the DVR active 24/7 and you access your content through a TiVo Mini on each TV. You could have unlimited network-attached storage, Blu-Ray disc playback in the PC tray would respond to TiVo's familiar trickplay controls, and the upgradeable DVR module could be offered in an array of processor speeds, available tuners, and streaming options.
Is there an echo in here? (And no, I'm not referring to the horrible Ceton product!)
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:35 PM   #83
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Here's a good follow-up article from ArsTechnica about this situation, in a conversation with Steve Wymer:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2014...ardware-plans/
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:40 PM   #84
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This explains the email I receive with a big discount on the Romeo box and the fact that TiVo is giving away the Premiere box. Look like TiVo is unloading their inventory. The summer software update, assuming we receive it, will be the last TiVo update. This is sad day for all of us who supported TiVo.
don't say things and purport them to be truth, without anything to back it up. This just causes mass hysteria.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:42 PM   #85
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I'm skeptical about the whole NDVR business.

Rather have control over my recordings, not have them expire for whatever reasons off my cloud locker.
also what's to stop them from allowing commercial skip? Then it's just a Hulu box.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #86
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This explains the email I receive with a big discount on the Romeo box and the fact that TiVo is giving away the Premiere box. Look like TiVo is unloading their inventory. The summer software update, assuming we receive it, will be the last TiVo update. This is sad day for all of us who supported TiVo.
I'd love to see a link posted to this being the case. Tivo keeps doing SW updates well past the point of the HW no longer being sold, as my S3 was getting updates at least 1-2 years past when it stopped being sold.

I don't expect this to be any different with the Premiere and Roamio units, as they should still be getting SW updates well into 2015 before they stop doing updates.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:28 PM   #87
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I wonder if Broadcom would have a reference DVR design for their future processors.

Of course, the standalone DVR business isn't that healthy so who knows how much money Tivos bring to Broadcom.
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:12 PM   #88
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They FINALLY released a really good piece of hardware and then they do this? Crazy..
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:01 PM   #89
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They FINALLY released a really good piece of hardware and then they do this? Crazy..
What did they do exactly? They laid off a few hardware designers. Did you want them to design new hardware to be released this year?
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Old 01-26-2014, 07:10 PM   #90
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I know I was hoping they would have a new TiVo Mini. One that had wireless remote capability built in. That could scale everything to 1080P60. And had WiFi built in as well.
I would sell my current TiVos mInis to replace them if that happened.
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