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Old 01-22-2014, 09:20 PM   #31
rainwater
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Originally Posted by Aero 1 View Post
Damn. I was going to wait a year before I go to the roamio for OTA only, now I have no idea how long they are going to keep the current line in retail.
I don't see how this would affect TiVo selling Roamio's at retail.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:21 PM   #32
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This explains the email I receive with a big discount on the Romeo box and the fact that TiVo is giving away the Premiere box.
I don't see how that relates them laying off their hardware team. They aren't still designing the Roamio.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:38 PM   #33
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TiVo Exiting the Hardware Business? Not So Fast, Says TiVo
Rumors of its box's demise may be premature.

http://techland.time.com/2014/01/22/...ast-says-tivo/
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:50 PM   #34
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I see from there 10k filling this-
"We increased the number of our regular, temporary, and part-time employees engaged in research and development by 8% from a total of 288 to 312 as of January 31, 2008 compared to January 31, 2007. "
Have they gone from 312 people to 2 people in the design department?

People were talking about TiVo manufacturing TiVos, but they have outsourced that long ago, as mentioned in this old filling. Did TiVo ever manufacture their own product?


http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/TiVo_...013/F107431344 is the latest filling.
I wonder if the 'cloud' solution is somehow related to people fast forwarding through commercials. Meaning that with the cloud system you wouldn't be able to fast forward through commercials.
"The DVR and other new consumer electronic devices which access broadband video have given viewers the freedom to view content when they want; and this time shifting has made it more difficult for advertisers to be assured that their commercials will be viewed by audiences at the regularly scheduled time the program is aired by network or local television stations. "

Last edited by replaytv : 01-22-2014 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:50 PM   #35
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Tivo refutes the rumors by saying they shift personnel around according to priorities, there is exploding potential in the cloud and that they expect to deliver on the Roamio for years.

The problem is none of that says they aren't exiting the hardware business. IT sounds like spin.

It was expected this would happen as On-Demand was always going to take over one day. It was just a matter of when and not if.

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Old 01-22-2014, 09:52 PM   #36
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I was THIS CLOSE to buying a Romio for xmas, but held off since my HD TiVo still works.. Clearly it's better to have the info now before making a choice, but now I'm not sure.. buy the newer one now and future-proof myself as said above, or avoid it..

Either way, as someone who was hacking their TiVo from the start, this is still a sad day.
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Old 01-22-2014, 09:55 PM   #37
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I see from there 10k filling this-
"We increased the number of our regular, temporary, and part-time employees engaged in research and development by 8% from a total of 288 to 312 as of January 31, 2008 compared to January 31, 2007. "
Have they gone from 312 people to 2 people in the design department?
Those were not just hardware designers. I would assume their software team has always been much larger.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:03 PM   #38
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Wired's bad article has been updated. This blew up pretty quickly with the dramatically false "officially exiting hardware" nonsense.
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:07 PM   #39
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... They aren't still designing the Roamio.
Nope, just the original Premiere.


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Old 01-22-2014, 10:12 PM   #40
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Cloud DVRs are a horrible idea. The lag and jitter would make for a lousy experience. That must be why cablecos like the idea.
I *sort* of agree with you (e.g. I use On Demand even though I have a Tivo, and the shows that DO let you FF have too much latency).. However, let me still be Devil's Advocate.

My Tivo + my iPad is sort of already a "cloud DVR" from the iPad's perspective. I *almost* always download to the iPad (which I use while walking on my treadmill), BECAUSE I get better responsiveness compared to trying to skip forward and back when streaming. Except for rare problems (though admittedly more frequent lately, which I haven't conclusively linked to the new version of the iPad app).

So, if you have local storage to buffer, and can download faster than you can watch (including FF through commercials), I think the idea of a cloud DVR *could* be done well.

I don't claim it *will* (I think it will be closer to On Demand, where MOST of the time you can't skip commercials -- though lately I've seen a bunch of shows with ABSOLUTELY 0 commercials in the On Demand versions!!! As opposed to the "shrink to very very short commercial breaks a few days after the original airing")... But in theory, having it all in the cloud COULD mean "infinite tuners and infinite storage".
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Old 01-22-2014, 10:49 PM   #41
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lol everybody panic!!!

So.... Tivo doesn't need to design any major new hardware for a while, and so they get rid of a couple people in that department.

I shall now go take a sledghammer to my Premier in effigy.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:11 AM   #42
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The folks who paid lifetime for replaytv, are they still be serviced? If my Roamio goes on for 5 yrs then I'll be happy. Anything less than that, I'll be pissed.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:19 AM   #43
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The folks who paid lifetime for replaytv, are they still be serviced? If my Roamio goes on for 5 yrs then I'll be happy. Anything less than that, I'll be pissed.
Yes, ReplayTV lifetime still receives TV info, as does automatic commercial advance!!
I too was worried about lifetime for TiVos going away.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:09 AM   #44
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The announcement only means that Tivo won't be designing any new boxes unless they change their mind down the road and bring in new designers. I sincerely doubt that the Roamio or any other current hardware being sold will disappear anytime soon. Based on what I recall from the original article, it sounds like Tivo wants to concentrate on licensing their software to cable TV providers for use on the cableco's DVRs. I seem to recall that they did this a while back with Comcast or some other provider and it met with mixed results. They must have something in the works that will improve upon this so we'll just have to wait and see what transpires.
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Old 01-23-2014, 07:29 AM   #45
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I'm convinced that the bulk of the Tivo hardware resources are third party already. Industrial design are the guys that make things appealing for consumers. There is no need for that with a cloud based DVR.

A next gen consumer Tivo might rely completely on third party hardware team. Not a big deal.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:08 AM   #46
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Bandwidth caps will not apply to a cloud based DVR managed by the cable company.
Yeah... no matter how you get your video in the future, you're at the mercy of the Cable cos, since they are the sole source of broadband in most areas of the country. Treating them as common carrier utilities with heavy government regulation is a proposed solution, but this may be a cure worse than the disease. Can you say "everyone gets 10 Mbps download speeds with no caps, for only $200/mo., with frequent outages" ?
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:35 AM   #47
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Interesting to see how this goes.

While I expect TiVo is not done with hardware altogether, it sounds like the main focus is elsewhere. It will be interesting to see if these cloud based dvr's go anywhere and cable companies adapt them over the next few years.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:14 AM   #48
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The announcement only means that Tivo won't be designing any new boxes unless they change their mind down the road and bring in new designers.
Or they contract it out, which is more likely.

In fact, I'd wonder whether they aren't already making extensive use of contract design firms to supplement the very limited staff that was just laid off.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:14 AM   #49
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Is TiVo hardware really that special, aside from the chip that contains the licensing information?

Some memory, a moca/wifi/ethernet adapter, off the shelf disk drive, power supply, 3rd party tuner, cable card decoders, usb bus, CPU, case.
Doesn't seem to be anything really specialized.

Maybe Im wrong.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:31 AM   #50
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TiVo didn't do hardware for a long time of their initial product lines. This initially worried me, but TiVo has since put out the fire. Plenty of OEMs out there are perfectly capable of building TiVo hardware for them (and already do, to TiVo's specs) and plenty of capable industrial design firms out there can design new hardware that doesn't suck on contract.

It truly is sad for the people who lost their jobs, but, they are in an industry that is booming, I hope and am confident they will land on their feet.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:42 AM   #51
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TiVo never manufactured hardware themselves - it has always been contracted out. They have designed the hardware, though. I'm waiting for folks such as Dave Zatz to tell us what really happened and what it means.
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:46 AM   #52
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They did announce the Pace relationship a while ago. May just rely on 3rd-party partnerships.

Pace: http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/ti...q-tivo-0889675

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-10/...t-buying-tivo/
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:50 AM   #53
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I'm not worried about Tivo getting out of the hardware business as they have been working with Pace since 2012. The hardware specs on the Tivo branded cable STBs and the Roamio plus are nearly indentical and both are using the same software.

By working with 3rd party hardware vendors Tivo should be able to reduce the cost of their product while at the same time supplying the exact same units as that offered by the cable companies.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:34 PM   #54
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If anything Sony or Samsung will be the hardware providers. I was quite surprised tivo lasted this long , without a mega-corp buying them
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:54 PM   #55
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If anything Sony or Samsung will be the hardware providers.
That seems doubtful. My guess is they would extend their partnership with Pace.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:59 PM   #56
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TiVo has used Pace and Solectron. They might contract out the hardware design as well. (It is not widely known that most laptops are primarily designed by contract manufacturers.)
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:21 PM   #57
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I have no doubt that they are going to leave the hardware design/development and build to a third party. Their IP is the Software and that is their strength. The weak link has always been the hardware. It has always been under powered and way behind in technology. Many of the software issues were due to the hardware limitations or issues.

The Roamio was probably their greatest leap, so it was a nice swan song for the previous hardware team. But in the end, they will have a small team that will establish the minimum hardware requirements and leave the design to others. Makes sense to me.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:22 PM   #58
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Maybe they're going to re-release a PC version (a la Nero LiquidTV) and we can grow our own, as well as a Roku channel as the new "TiVo Mini", etc.?
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:28 PM   #59
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Back in the S1 and S2 days, we had Tivo units from multiple vendors, Humax, Toshiba, Sony (I think) plus others, and they all worked well enough. I had a Toshiba Tivo S2 with a DVD burner in it and it worked quite well until the DVD drive died in it. I had a Sony SVR-1000 S1 unit as my first Tivo.

Tivo relying on someone else to do the hardware as a ODM wouldn't surprise me, which is what we have all the time with Dell, HP, Acer, ASUS, etc. Companies like Foxconn, Compal, Quanta and numerous other ones out there do the ODM work for major companies all the time. I hope this wouldn't be any different.

I'm sure Tivo manufacturing is contracted out to a third party company anyway, so it would just be another vendor's logo on the box.
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Old 01-23-2014, 01:34 PM   #60
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Back in the S1 and S2 days, we had Tivo units from multiple vendors, Humax, Toshiba, Sony (I think) plus others, and they all worked well enough. I had a Toshiba Tivo S2 with a DVD burner in it and it worked quite well until the DVD drive died in it. I had a Sony SVR-1000 S1 unit as my first Tivo.

Tivo relying on someone else to do the hardware as a ODM wouldn't surprise me, which is what we have all the time with Dell, HP, Acer, ASUS, etc. Companies like Foxconn, Compal, Quanta and numerous other ones out there do the ODM work for major companies all the time. I hope this wouldn't be any different.

I'm sure Tivo manufacturing is contracted out to a third party company anyway, so it would just be another vendor's logo on the box.
It doesn't even have to be another vendor's logo on the box. They laid off some hardware design guys. There's no reason that those tasks couldn't be done by a contract design firm, and still manufactured by someone like Pace or Technicolor to TiVo's specifications with TiVo still handling the marketing, support, etc.
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