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Old 04-17-2014, 04:47 PM   #1
blackjackel
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Format your own 4TB Hard drive for roamio, just $20 :)

Hi guys, I'm selling instructions on how to format your own 4TB hard drive to work with tivo roamio devices. After receipt of payment, I will provide you instructions on where to download a hard drive RAW copy tool, and instructions on how to obtain the RAW partition image through dropbox. You can then image your 4tb partition to work with tivo roamio.

Please PM me for payment details.

PLEASE NOTE:

This method involves a RAW partition IMAGE, which can take 24hours to completely image your 4tb drive sector by sector. It can be slower or faster depending on your PC's capabilities.

This method has only been tested to work with TIVO roamio. I'm unsure if it will work with other TIVO devices, I'm pretty sure it won't.

This method has only been tested to work with WD AV-GP 4tb drives (WD40EURX), it may work with other drives but I have not tested this. I'd be happy to return your money if it does not work with another kind of 4TB drive.


Sidenote: Please let me know if I'm violating any of the forum's rules. I looked for them and the best I could find were the forum FAQ and they did not say anything about buying or selling on the forum.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:21 PM   #2
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I think that selling (or even giving away) a byte-for-byte copy of someone else's hard work is just wrong. Nuff said...
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:41 PM   #3
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I think that selling (or even giving away) a byte-for-byte copy of someone else's hard work is just wrong. Nuff said...
Amen.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:59 PM   #4
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if its not copyrighted then have at it.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:36 PM   #5
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There is a sub-thread for deals between forum members in the eBay Auction Central Thread.

This ain't it.
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Old 04-18-2014, 07:36 PM   #6
eboydog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjackel View Post
Hi guys, I'm selling instructions on how to format your own 4TB hard drive to work with tivo roamio devices. After receipt of payment, I will provide you instructions on where to download a hard drive RAW copy tool, and instructions on how to obtain the RAW partition image through dropbox. You can then image your 4tb partition to work with tivo roamio.

Please PM me for payment details.

PLEASE NOTE:

This method involves a RAW partition IMAGE, which can take 24hours to completely image your 4tb drive sector by sector. It can be slower or faster depending on your PC's capabilities.

This method has only been tested to work with TIVO roamio. I'm unsure if it will work with other TIVO devices, I'm pretty sure it won't.

This method has only been tested to work with WD AV-GP 4tb drives (WD40EURX), it may work with other drives but I have not tested this. I'd be happy to return your money if it does not work with another kind of 4TB drive.


Sidenote: Please let me know if I'm violating any of the forum's rules. I looked for them and the best I could find were the forum FAQ and they did not say anything about buying or selling on the forum.

Selling an imaged copy of Weaknees"s 4Tb Roamio hard drive is simply wrong. Given they are a major sponsor of the forum, they deserve respect and this isn't it.

Unless you can prove otherwise but Weaknees did the hard work and all you are doing is distributing their work and attempting to make money on something you had nothing to do with??

TOTALLY UNCOOL.
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:21 AM   #7
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Any takers yet?

I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to step up and buy your pirated image if you plan to put it up for free later on.

AFAIAC, I don't think you deserve to recoup your costs, since just about anyone could have done what you did. The only reason it hadn't been done before is because most people on this forum have ethics.

Don't get me wrong, I suspected this would happen sooner or later (someone buying the WK drive and copying it), but I would NEVER expect them to charge money for the resulting image since you don't really have to do any substantial work to get it in the first place.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:37 PM   #8
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Alright, I guess If everyone here thinks that this is a morally reprehensible thing to do, then I will back down.

While I still don't agree that what I'm doing is morally wrong, I think that when one is part of a society, one must go with the flow, even though he might disagree with what others believe.

I'm no longer going to sell the drive.

Last edited by blackjackel : 04-19-2014 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:58 PM   #9
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I have ISO copies of Ptvnet and several iso's for a few directivos I purchased from dvrupgrade a number of years ago, they were bought and payed for my use, with my devices. Could I boot them up, format a few drives and sell those drives on eBay for a drop in hard drive fix for those who couldnt/wouldn't or want to buy them from dvrupgrade? SURE! But I didn't and I won't because it is not right.

You bought the drive upgrade for your Roamio, not for everyone's Roamio. It's not a issue of "I think that when one is part of a society, one must go with the flow, even though he might disagree with what others believe." you already knew the answer, is has nothing to do with society, it's a issue of being proposed with a choice of doing what is right and wrong and making that right choice for yourself.

If you truly believe that what you propose is right, you wouldn't have asked permission from any group and would have just posted in the buy and sell forum to sell your derived 4tb drive upgrade image that Weaknees created. Charging a few dollars physical drive you could have bought elsewhere cheap doesn't matter and has absolute nothing to do with the issue other than a hollow excuse to say you are doing good? Really if you feel you are OK with doing such, go for it but suspect our forum's sponsor will object and you might have to move your business elsewhere as the people who pay the bills will have a larger say so in the matter than you will.

Are there people willing to pay a heavily discounted fee to get their Roamio to run a 4tb drive? SURE, however the guys who did the real work and in being the ones that deserve the credit, they will not be pleased. What for example, happens next if Weaknees figures out a method to use a 5 or 6tb drive in the Roamio and decides not to release it since someone ripped off their prior work? I know if I was them I sure wouldn't be too eager to work while others receive credit for such be it monetary of simple inflated egos.

Under your thinking I should buy a new Tivo, reverse engine it, port it all back to open Linux and sell it as a new Tivo like dvr? It's OK because if I was let's say, to get around d the legal issues of such, it's OK because I'm only going to charge a small fee and once I make up my cost of buying that new Tivo, I will give it away for free so it's all OK.
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Last edited by eboydog : 04-19-2014 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 04-20-2014, 07:59 PM   #10
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I have ISO copies of Ptvnet and several iso's for a few directivos I purchased from dvrupgrade a number of years ago, they were bought and payed for my use, with my devices. Could I boot them up, format a few drives and sell those drives on eBay for a drop in hard drive fix for those who couldnt/wouldn't or want to buy them from dvrupgrade? SURE! But I didn't and I won't because it is not right.

You bought the drive upgrade for your Roamio, not for everyone's Roamio. It's not a issue of "I think that when one is part of a society, one must go with the flow, even though he might disagree with what others believe." you already knew the answer, is has nothing to do with society, it's a issue of being proposed with a choice of doing what is right and wrong and making that right choice for yourself.

If you truly believe that what you propose is right, you wouldn't have asked permission from any group and would have just posted in the buy and sell forum to sell your derived 4tb drive upgrade image that Weaknees created. Charging a few dollars physical drive you could have bought elsewhere cheap doesn't matter and has absolute nothing to do with the issue other than a hollow excuse to say you are doing good? Really if you feel you are OK with doing such, go for it but suspect our forum's sponsor will object and you might have to move your business elsewhere as the people who pay the bills will have a larger say so in the matter than you will.

Are there people willing to pay a heavily discounted fee to get their Roamio to run a 4tb drive? SURE, however the guys who did the real work and in being the ones that deserve the credit, they will not be pleased. What for example, happens next if Weaknees figures out a method to use a 5 or 6tb drive in the Roamio and decides not to release it since someone ripped off their prior work? I know if I was them I sure wouldn't be too eager to work while others receive credit for such be it monetary of simple inflated egos.

Under your thinking I should buy a new Tivo, reverse engine it, port it all back to open Linux and sell it as a new Tivo like dvr? It's OK because if I was let's say, to get around d the legal issues of such, it's OK because I'm only going to charge a small fee and once I make up my cost of buying that new Tivo, I will give it away for free so it's all OK.
How do you feel about giving TiVo images away for free, I have help a few people with an image of a old TiVo, with Dropbox no money is involved. Some on this Forum do it all the time, I have no problem with it as I think of it as repair help for a old TiVo that was paid for.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:05 AM   #11
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How do you feel about giving TiVo images away for free, I have help a few people with an image of a old TiVo, with Dropbox no money is involved. Some on this Forum do it all the time, I have no problem with it as I think of it as repair help for a old TiVo that was paid for.
I do that, but none of the images are from Instant Cake or any other commercial product.

They have a right to offer their own work for money, and others have a right to pursue a less expensive option that does not include infringing on their work.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:26 AM   #12
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I don't believe there is a issue of images that are straight up TiVo restore imiages but not those such as instantcake or similer ISO's that are tools to create drives as those involve someone intellectual work even while they might be special scripts, they are the work of someone else who wrote, tested and offered such for retail sale. Until the process that Weaknees uses to create a 4tb or larger drive for the Roamio is released publicly, their drive image is in the same category as any other drive prep process such as Instantcake or PTVnet.

Similer situation were a number of years ago I offered upgrade services locally for Tivos and I used DVRupgrade instantcake images. In several situations I already had the ISO's to create drives for those Tivos brought to me, I bought separate duplicate ISO's for each customer that needed them despite already having them from prior upgrades. I passed that cost to those who paid me for fixing their Tivos and each customer had their own legit copy of Instantcake for their Tivo.

Could I have reused one copy for each for multiple Tivo's? Sure but it came down to being fair to those who offered the ability to boot up a CD and recreate a working drive for their Tivo. fair is fair, now for generic Tivo images that aren't related to purchasing a process such as images used with DVRbars, that's completely different and fair game unless Tivo comes out and says it's wrong which so far they haven't. As mentioned here, the only time were any site or person has ran into problems with having their download link or site shutdown was when they were distributing a refined or retail product that was the derived work offered for sale such a Instancake or PTVnet images.

While blackjackel is offering a image of 4tb drive upgrade for the Roamio, the issue is that the such work was the result of something that Weakness prepared special and until that preparation or process is released publicly, then that technically their work should be respected as legit copyrighted process despite it being in grey area were most likely they obtain the means of doing such (which this is pure speculation) by a leaked information from someone who works for Tivo.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:02 PM   #13
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Last time I checked, only a handful of vendors are licensed to distribute and sell Tivo images. It is copyrighted software, in case anyone wasn't aware. Selling any Tivo image is technically a violation of copyright law.

In the previous post where an image was purchased to repair someone else's Tivo and said image was passed along to the person paying for the service, there should be no issue as the person doing the image restoration was just the middleman in the transaction and possibly charged for his labor involved in the repair. The image was bought and paid for legally.

Giving away a Tivo image is probably technically illegal as well. However, since it's being used to replace an image you already own I don't see the harm in it. I doubt that Tivo is going to send a flock of lawyers or the FBI to knock on your door.

The safest way to avoid any complications is simply to make your own backup image while your Tivo is still functional using tools that are freely available. Waiting until your Tivo drive dies and then shelling out $40 for a new image isn't the most prudent or cost effective approach, yet people here do it all the time. Back in the days when I had lots of Tivos, I made it a regular habit to create backup images of every new Tivo I acquired and then make subsequent backups whenever a new OS update was installed.
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Old 04-23-2014, 03:11 PM   #14
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There are two issues here: TiVo s/w and weaKnees 4TB drive.

I happen to be of the opinion that when you purchase a TiVo, by implication you are also purchasing a license to the s/w. By forcing you to buy something from a third party if a disk drive goes bad, TiVo is not honoring that license. I also think that TiVo knows this, which is why they don't aggressively pursue people who "distribute" it. A TiVo is useless w/o the s/w and the s/w is useless except on a TiVo. A TiVo is also close to useless w/o service.

The 4TB drive situation is murkier. While weaKnees may be able to patent the process used to create it, they almost certainly cannot patent the actual layout. Then again, the Patent Office has issued patents on weaker grounds. While what blackjackel is doing may or may not be illegal, IMHO it is unethical.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:14 AM   #15
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We don't know for certain that it was weaKnees whose disc was copied.

In fact I got the impression of the original having been obtained from an individual (dvrDUDE, maybe, or however he spells it?)

A further issue is whether there's any TiVo software on the disc before it gets put into an S5, or just some sort of partitioning.

Maybe the trade secret here is someone figured out a partition map that an S5 isn't set up to create, but which is one that it will recognize and can use.

We're still in "not compensating someone for their work" territory, though.
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Old 04-24-2014, 12:41 PM   #16
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We don't know for certain that it was weaKnees whose disc was copied.

In fact I got the impression of the original having been obtained from an individual (dvrDUDE, maybe, or however he spells it?)
I wasn't even aware until now that DVR_DUDE was offering this. I note he also has a 4TB Premiere drive.

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A further issue is whether there's any TiVo software on the disc before it gets put into an S5, or just some sort of partitioning.
IMHO, not really relevant.

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Maybe the trade secret here is someone figured out a partition map that an S5 isn't set up to create, but which is one that it will recognize and can use.

We're still in "not compensating someone for their work" territory, though.
Maybe not, but we are in the "being compensated for someone else's work" territory
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Old 04-24-2014, 01:48 PM   #17
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blackjackel was asked were he obtained the image he was using to create his image and he never replied but considering there are only two sources, it came from either Weaknees or DVR_Dude on eBay. So far there hasn't been anyone willing to come out and offer such (yet).

As far as the 4tb drive and it's modification, it's my understanding from a my sources, is that the process to make a 4tb drive work in the Roamio is to install a blank 4tb drive, let it boot up and the Roamio recognizes only 3tb capacity, the drive is then taken out and modified using undisclosed utility(s) which changes it, then it's re-installed and the specific Roamio recognizes the full 4tb capacity.

Given that if one purchases the 4tb drive kit from one of the only two sources offering it, it's not a universal kit for all Roamio's. As it's not like the process were all three models of the Roamio recognize and can prepare blank 3tb or smaller drives but rather there are 3 flavors of the 4tb upgrade kits, one for the regualer, Plus and Pro.

What the general public doesn't have is the utility and or procedure to change the hard drive data after it had been recognized which is what Weakness and DVR_Dude are selling. In pure speculation on my part, DVR_Dude is the creator of the method and he is working with Weaknees to provide the solution for them to sell also or as I don't know who DVR_Dude is, perhaps he works for Weakness?? I don't know....

With that, there could be some Tivo software of some type on the drive but as mentioned such is of no use without the matching Tivo system and Tivo hasn't put their foot down since such still remains a secure system were one part is useless without the rest of the matching hardware/firmware so this would be why Tivo isn't up in arms in stopping the practice.

BUT THE POINT of what I'm describing is that the "service" that blackjackel is offering is flawed as what he has is a drive image of one of three Roamio models, depending on what he purchased (most likely from DVR_Dude on eBay as that fit the price range he stated since Weaknees is more expensive) and the image he has will only work with the exact model of Roamio and possibly requires the exact model of hard drive that it was retrieved from. I would guess that blackjackel hasn't tested his drive copy procedure with anything other than the Roamio he has but who knows, perhaps it works in all models. This might be also the reason Weaknees hasn't ended or had this thread closed.

IMHO, there is no use to have a 4tb upgrade option for most Roamio owners until there is DIY procedure using a off the shelf 4tb hard drive, don't know how accurate the eBay auction stats are but DVR_Dude hasn't sold any Roamio basic kits, 4 Plus kits and doesn't appear to offer any Pro kits. Weaknees due to their reputation and sponsorship here I would guess has sold more but dang, 4tb is a LOT of recordings to have in one place!! 3Tb is a lot of recordings, that is one reason why I bought a second Roamio so not to have everything under one box.
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