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Old 02-19-2014, 12:50 PM   #121
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Ledoux was the boyfriend of the girl who got killed years ago (they talked to her grandfather in his fishing boat). He was also the cellmate of the guy who was married to Dora (the current victim). He had 2 children bound and captive in his place where he made meth. One of the children was dead. it wasn't difficult to say "got our man" and close the case at that point.

I could be wrong about many things here...that's just the way I recall things...
That is the way I remember it, too. Also, I think there was one of those stick sculptures near the meth lab where Ledoux was staying.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:09 PM   #122
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Good article here about the show and a bit of info on Carcosa and The King in Yellow


http://grantland.com/hollywood-prosp...rue-detective/
Wow... excellent article. Thanks for posting.

I loved the comparison to Twin Peaks, I've had that same vibe from the beginning.

Though I will say that to this day there has been no show that so completely and thoroughly engaged me as the first season of Twin Peaks did. TD is climbing the ladder fast but I doubt it will get to that level.

The author hit the nail on the head, imo, when he pointed out the flaws in Twin Peaks, X-Files and Lost that eventually left viewers with a sense of being let down or a less than satisfactory explanation of what was really going on, and how TD due to its format doesn't have to fall into that same category.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:31 PM   #123
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the show's prod/writer gave insight to cohle's 2012 interview on the official site for ep5.

remember near the end, hart (wh) said "if you two talked to rust, and you weren't gettin' a read on him, he was getting a read on you"? cohle only agreed to go in so he could see what they had. the writers said there was a reason cohle asked for the beer - he knew that if they did suspect him for the new murder, and he was drinking during the interview, nothing he said would be admissable.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:43 PM   #124
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the show's prod/writer gave insight to cohle's 2012 interview on the official site for ep5.

remember near the end, hart (wh) said "if you two talked to rust, and you weren't gettin' a read on him, he was getting a read on you"? cohle only agreed to go in so he could see what they had. the writers said there was a reason cohle asked for the beer - he knew that if they did suspect him for the new murder, and he was drinking during the interview, nothing he said would be admissable.
And we saw last episode that he is capable of working at a very high level when extremely intoxicated/high, so the beer was no big deal even though he made it seem like one. I suspect he was also intentionally playing them by making figurines from the beer cans.

I am pleased with the way they have handled the "Cohle is the killer" plot that they've been broadcasting since the first episode. It is clear to us the audience that he isn't because we see "what really happened" but Brother Mouzone doesn't know that and just sees holes in the story. That is a lot better than either him actually being the killer or us as the audience being led to believe he is the killer. Both of those would have been pretty cliched and annoying directions for the plot.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:52 PM   #125
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I have to say, that Grantland article certainly describes me. This show is getting under my skin in a good way.

Incidentally, The King in Yellow is part of Project Gutenberg. Free, free, free. I downloaded the Kindle Edition from Amazon.

Greg
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:31 AM   #126
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Whoever said the school would come back into play was spot on (I'm too lazy to see who). This show is just great. I hope the climax is as good as the journey.
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:58 PM   #127
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I'm really enjoying this. I'm also hoping that in the back half it takes a bit of a turn toward the twilight zone and the supernatural, but even if it doesn't, it's still a fun ride.

I thought this article on i09 was a good read: http://io9.com/the-one-literary-refe...ate-1523076497

Also: I'll register my suspicion here that the governor's cousin, the Rev Tuttle, who visited the police station in episode one is the King. Cohl's suspicion about the task force being hot to take the case away from them was raised in this latest episode (5) and not really explored, but I think he's onto something there. And one of the criminals (was it Charlie, or was it the guy who seems to have killed himself?) made a comment about "big men" (which might mean "important" rather than "large") when Cohl was speaking to him. I think that Cohl and Hart are still working the case, trying to get to the Governor, and Cohl's being a present-day drunk is just part of his undercover work - the falling out between them that's been alluded to is probably as made up by them as their story of Ledoux firing an AK at them.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:28 PM   #128
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I'm also hoping that in the back half it takes a bit of a turn toward the twilight zone and the supernatural, but even if it doesn't, it's still a fun ride.
I could not disagree more. I sincerely hope they do not go supernatural with this. The Yellow King stuff is great as long as it stays a motivation for the crazies, but if it starts becoming "real", then the integrity of the show will be ruined.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:25 AM   #129
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I'll register my suspicion here that the governor's cousin, the Rev Tuttle, who visited the police station in episode one is the King.
when the tent revival preacher mentioned he studied with tuttle, i suspected there'd be a tuttle connection to the killer...
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And one of the criminals...made a comment about "big men"...when Cohl was speaking to him.
...but when that was offered out of the blue, it was almost too convenient - and made me start to question my tuttle connection suspicions above...oh, well, we'll know soon...
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:17 AM   #130
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Also: I'll register my suspicion here that the governor's cousin, the Rev Tuttle, who visited the police station in episode one is the King. Cohl's suspicion about the task force being hot to take the case away from them was raised in this latest episode (5) and not really explored, but I think he's onto something there. And one of the criminals (was it Charlie, or was it the guy who seems to have killed himself?) made a comment about "big men" (which might mean "important" rather than "large") when Cohl was speaking to him. I think that Cohl and Hart are still working the case, trying to get to the Governor, and Cohl's being a present-day drunk is just part of his undercover work - the falling out between them that's been alluded to is probably as made up by them as their story of Ledoux firing an AK at them.
I think they'll find Tuttle's fingerprints on the cookie jar in some capacity. He may be the King, maybe not, but he's involved imo.

Not sure about Cohl being undercover all this time. Unless we're being intentionally deceived, and that's not completely out of the question, we'd have to believe he's been undercover for over 10 years now. I'm not sure anyone could handle that, and given what he already went through in TX it just seems unlikely to me.

I think their falling out is genuine. I suspect it has something to do with Hart's wife. Not that Cohl slept with her per se, but somehow he said or did something that sent Hart into orbit.
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Old 02-22-2014, 10:52 AM   #131
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A couple more thoughts:

Missing the clues right under your nose is a repeated motif, it seems. It's been mentioned several times (the "Detective's Curse"), in several episodes. I've got to believe that the writer is speaking to us with that, telling us the viewer that we're missing the obvious. I wonder if there's another "under the nose clue" that's being overlooked, during Cohl's interrogation: the cut up beer cans. As he's been talking, Cohl has been carving up his empty Lone Star cans. (A brand of beer he specifically requested, by the way). In this latest episode, we finally get a clear view of what he's been making:



It's a tableaux of men with yellow stars for heads, standing around a fallen person. Are the stars figurative crowns (as would be worn by a king?) Are they symbolic of yellow hair? (And if so, does that somehow implicate Marty?) Or are they stars like police badges? It's that last one that I keep coming back to. Is it possible that Cohl is dropping a clue right in front of the 2012 detectives' noses, telling them that they should be looking internally at the force for the answer, but they are failing to see the clue he's left right under their noses? When he leaves the interrogation room he says the day was a waste, except for the beer. Maybe he wasn't talking about the free drinks; maybe he was saying "everything I told you was pretty much BS, except for the beer tableaux I made."

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Not sure about Cohl being undercover all this time. Unless we're being intentionally deceived, and that's not completely out of the question, we'd have to believe he's been undercover for over 10 years now. I'm not sure anyone could handle that, and given what he already went through in TX it just seems unlikely to me.
Then again, Cohl did explicitly tell Marty (and us) that he had been sent undercover "with no expiration date." Why should we assume that it expired in the first place? Maybe Cohl has been undercover right from the start, even from the point that he first met Marty.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:36 AM   #132
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Then again, Cohl did explicitly tell Marty (and us) that he had been sent undercover "with no expiration date." Why should we assume that it expired in the first place? Maybe Cohl has been undercover right from the start, even from the point that he first met Marty.
** I'm going back to referring to them as MM and WH. You're confusing the hell out of me switching between the characters first and last names. You're talking to a guy here that took a year before he could remember that Dick Van Dyke's name on the show was Rob.... and that's only because MTM said "Ohhhh Rob!" at least 3 times per episode. **

That is entirely possible. But wouldn't that mean that he was sent there prior to the first killing? How do it know?

As for the beer cans, there's no doubt they're some kind of clue or they have a meaning beyond just killing time during the interview. You've listed some very interesting possibilities.

The multiple mentions of the "Detectives Curse" caught my attention as well.

Separating the meaningful from the incidental (red herrings) is where we'll go insane - a la 'The King in Yellow'.

Still, I have to know!
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:26 PM   #133
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That is entirely possible. But wouldn't that mean that he was sent there prior to the first killing? How do it know?
Ah, but what was the first killing? When Hart and Cohle were on the scene of the first victim, Dora, didn't Cohle make some sort of comment about her not being the first, or the last? ("This is gonna happen again. Or it's happened before. Both.") The common-sense reading of that statement is "there were other victims, and there will be more victims in the future." But the show seems to be steering us toward a more metaphysical reading of his comment now, doesn't it? Almost like he's saying this one moment is going to repeat again and again, as it has before in the past. And didn't Reggie Ledeaux, right before getting shot, say something that sounded awfully precognitive, too, about his meeting up with Cohle, as a part of the conversation about time being a flat circle? The whole thing reminds me a bit of Battlestar Galactica and its "all of this will happen before, and all of it will happen again" (which, incidentally, is the opening line of Peter Pan, as well - both are expressions of the philosophical concept of Eternal Return as espoused by Nietzsche, among others - which is why Cohle called Ledeaux "Nietzsche" during their flat circle conversation).

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** I'm going back to referring to them as MM and WH. You're confusing the hell out of me switching between the characters first and last names.


Call them MM and WH if you like, but you are short-changing what the show does with names, if you do:

Martin Hart: The name Martin comes from Mars, the god of war. And Hart could mean "heart" or it could mean a hart like a stag. (Remember the antlers? And Martin's conversation about hunting a 10-point buck?) So we have one lead with a name that means "warlike heart," maybe, or "violent antlers"? And then there's Rustin Cohle. Rust and Coal - that's pretty evocative. Now put the two of them together and stretch a bit and you have Heart and Cohle (heart and soul)?

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Separating the meaningful from the incidental (red herrings) is where we'll go insane - a la 'The King in Yellow'.
Speaking of which - I'd love to know into which of those categories this falls:


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Old 02-23-2014, 09:33 PM   #134
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Phenomenal episode tonight. Sharp writing, and incredible acting by all.

Two eps left, should be killer eps.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:31 AM   #135
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Phenomenal episode tonight. Sharp writing, and incredible acting by all.

Two eps left, should be killer eps.
I continue to be amazed by the level of acting from the entire cast. It's really superb.

There's either going to be a really big twist at the end or the bad guys are Tuttle and some high ranking police officers.

Looking forward to the resolution. It's been a hell of a ride to this point.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:40 AM   #136
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Anyone else notice that Hart's "good" daughter is played by the same actress who plays Lizzie on The Walking Dead?
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:30 AM   #137
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Anyone else notice that Hart's "good" daughter is played by the same actress who plays Lizzie on The Walking Dead?
I hadn't noticed that, cool. It certainly can't hurt her career having roles on two of the hottest shows going.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:38 AM   #138
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Beth, WH's younger side lady, is also Rebecca on Cinemax's Banshee. She's definitely not shy on either series.

I get why WH's wife would want to hurt him by sleeping around, a little "Fool me once" payback. I even get why she'd want to do it with MM. I don't get why she would name him to WH when she drops the bomb; this seems like exactly the kind of thing that would get a partner to kill the other.

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Old 02-24-2014, 09:38 AM   #139
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I couldn't place her, thanks for the Lizzie note.

My wife predicted that Cohle and Maggie were going to sleep together at some point. At the time I thought... well, that would be dumb. Once again, they've deftly made a plot twist that I thought would be stupid into something really good and enjoyable.

I liked the last shot of his tail light still being the way it was after that impressive throw in their fisticuffs. They seem to have him using aikido or something similar. Nice wrist lock too.

Was the book they referred to with the kiddie photos inside of it another King in Yellow reference?
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Old 02-24-2014, 11:59 AM   #140
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Alan Sepinwall's review

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...tners-in-crime

One great quote from it:

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The conclusion might not work at all, but the five episodes leading up to this one comprised some of the most exciting television I've seen in years that didn't involve Walter White figuring out how to make people explode.

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Old 02-24-2014, 12:14 PM   #141
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I get why WH's wife would want to hurt him by sleeping around, a little "Fool me once" payback. I even get why she'd want to do it with MM. I don't get why she would name him to WH when she drops the bomb; this seems like exactly the kind of thing that would get a partner to kill the other.
Yeah, I did not get that part either. I suppose the writer would say that she was looking for the one person who would hurt Marty the most, so of course she had to name Cohle to accomplish her revenge. But that strikes me as out of character for her -- she is not the type to hurt Cohle as collateral damage just to hurt her husband. And we cannot say that she was hysterical or not thinking clearly -- she obviously thought things through.

I was kind of hoping she would sleep with the police commander and take a picture and send it to Marty. No good reason for it, except that I really don't like that guy and want him to see him beaten.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:32 PM   #142
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I cannot WAIT for that conversation! I have a feeling it's going to have "Emmy reel" written all over it.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:20 PM   #143
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Alan Sepinwall's review

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...tners-in-crime

One great quote from it:
Be careful. There is a pretty good spoiler in the comments.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:46 PM   #144
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Be careful. There is a pretty good spoiler in the comments.
Spoiler for what?
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:34 PM   #145
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Spoiler for what?
Its a casting spoiler. I can't put it in spoiler quotes right now on Forum Runner Android.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:53 AM   #146
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Yeah, I did not get that part either. I suppose the writer would say that she was looking for the one person who would hurt Marty the most, so of course she had to name Cohle to accomplish her revenge. But that strikes me as out of character for her -- she is not the type to hurt Cohle as collateral damage just to hurt her husband. And we cannot say that she was hysterical or not thinking clearly -- she obviously thought things through.

I was kind of hoping she would sleep with the police commander and take a picture and send it to Marty. No good reason for it, except that I really don't like that guy and want him to see him beaten.
The way I interpreted her comments is that she wanted to sleep with someone so that Marty would never take her back. She knew she would eventually forgive Marty and take him back (at least, Marty would never stop trying to get her back). This was the only way (in her mind) to end the relationship because it would be over on both ends.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:05 AM   #147
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Yeah, I did not get that part either. I suppose the writer would say that she was looking for the one person who would hurt Marty the most, so of course she had to name Cohle to accomplish her revenge. But that strikes me as out of character for her -- she is not the type to hurt Cohle as collateral damage just to hurt her husband. And we cannot say that she was hysterical or not thinking clearly -- she obviously thought things through.
This.

I can only guess that she does not know WH's crazy like we know his crazy.

On the same issue, when WH went in for the choke and she taunted him until he didn't do it. And then called him a coward.

I think that stuff only works on TV because neither of those actions are on my playlist for the day a physically larger and stronger person has their hands on my throat with murderous intent.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:18 AM   #148
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I just wonder what happens to this show next season with a different cast. MM and WH and just so amazing in this!
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:04 PM   #149
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The way I interpreted her comments is that she wanted to sleep with someone so that Marty would never take her back. She knew she would eventually forgive Marty and take him back (at least, Marty would never stop trying to get her back). This was the only way (in her mind) to end the relationship because it would be over on both ends.
Two problems with that explanation. One is that she said nothing about that. And two is that it does not make sense. Just because she seduced his partner is not going to make Marty suddenly decide to leave her as compared to her seducing someone (or someones) else. There is no reason to think she would believe such a thing.
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:23 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
Two problems with that explanation. One is that she said nothing about that. And two is that it does not make sense. Just because she seduced his partner is not going to make Marty suddenly decide to leave her as compared to her seducing someone (or someones) else. There is no reason to think she would believe such a thing.
What did she say to Cohle? I thought it was something along the lines of, this is the only way he would accept a divorce.
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