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Old 03-11-2014, 08:30 AM   #271
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I guess part of the argument here is that Rust was SOOOO committed to finding out the truth in this case and catching the killers, that it's hard to imagine he'd just give up until everyone is caught. On the flip side, his brush with death might have changes his mind. So I can see both sides of the discussion as plausible.
Rust is Rust. Why do we assume he gave up? Just because Marty told him to and we didn't see him jump out of his wheelchair and start using aikido on Tuttle?
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:42 AM   #272
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I think that's exactly what is going to happen, or that's the impression I'm left with.

This series was shot from Rust's and Marty's POV. This was just how the case ended for them, not the end of the case.

As Marty said, "We got ours.".
I think the opposite. There was a snippet of newscast from Rust' hospital room basically saying the Tuttle family was denying any involvement with the killer. They will successfully cover it up, and the darkness keeps fighting the light.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:43 AM   #273
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Rust is Rust. Why do we assume he gave up? Just because Marty told him to and we didn't see him jump out of his wheelchair and start using aikido on Tuttle?
One glib counter is why not stop at episode number 7 and we can just assume they caught the lawnmower man

But seriously, the show is about detectives spending a good chunk of their career trying to catch a pedophile and serial killing ring. Not just one man. All they needed was one throwaway line about the rest of the ring being caught (instead, we got a throwaway line about the senator denying that the guy was his cousin or something like that).

All we got was a dismissive comment from Marty "eh...someone else will catch the rest, it's not our problem anymore...we did enough".
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:44 AM   #274
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Rust is Rust. Why do we assume he gave up? Just because Marty told him to and we didn't see him jump out of his wheelchair and start using aikido on Tuttle?
Very true. When he's fully recovered, I could see him on the case again.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:54 AM   #275
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I think the opposite. There was a snippet of newscast from Rust' hospital room basically saying the Tuttle family was denying any involvement with the killer. They will successfully cover it up, and the darkness keeps fighting the light.
They may well successfully cover it up, but it's not the end of the case.

And I prefer to think of it as the light fighting the darkness.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:19 AM   #276
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My only dissapointment was the "scars" on the killer. They practically were non-existent. Nobody would look at him and remember him based on those especially after 20+ years.
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Old 03-11-2014, 05:27 PM   #277
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This Yellow King theory is pretty compelling:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8zTSDFiI24

(Some NSFW language at the very end)
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:58 PM   #278
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This Yellow King theory is pretty compelling:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X8zTSDFiI24

(Some NSFW language at the very end)
dslunceford already posted that 4 days ago in this thread.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:20 PM   #279
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dslunceford already posted that 4 days ago in this thread.
Ah, I must have missed it.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:12 PM   #280
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I have to say though, from the time they pulled up to the house, I was on the edge of my seat. My heart was actually beating fast. Kudos to the director for that scene. Really well done.
This for sure. However I think this show had an advantage that most shows don't: we all know that this was the last episode and that they won't bring back these characters or this case at all, even if there's another season. We also understand that a show like this is absolutely not afraid to have an ending that is difficult and challenging to the viewer.

So, that leads to an unusual amount of tension for a finale like this: usually you know that the main characters will survive but here we just had no idea what would happen. There are very few shows where this is true: Game of Thrones (although not so much for those of us who've read the books) and a little bit Walking Dead (although there are inviolable (IMO) characters on that show) are the only ones I can think of offhand.

It was fantastic! I'm not saying that the writing and directing weren't also responsible but a lot of it was the format.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:34 AM   #281
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This for sure. However I think this show had an advantage that most shows don't: we all know that this was the last episode and that they won't bring back these characters or this case at all, even if there's another season. We also understand that a show like this is absolutely not afraid to have an ending that is difficult and challenging to the viewer.

So, that leads to an unusual amount of tension for a finale like this: usually you know that the main characters will survive but here we just had no idea what would happen. There are very few shows where this is true: Game of Thrones (although not so much for those of us who've read the books) and a little bit Walking Dead (although there are inviolable (IMO) characters on that show) are the only ones I can think of offhand.

It was fantastic! I'm not saying that the writing and directing weren't also responsible but a lot of it was the format.
Agree. I think this had more of a movie or mini-series feel than a regular detective series. Much much more interesting to watch.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:22 PM   #282
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I watched this show over the past week on HBO Go and I really enjoyed it. A few times, I didn't totally follow their conversations when they were mentioning people from past episodes. Maybe I should have taken notes.

This show reminds me of some others I have seen over the past couple of years:
Broadchurch
Top of The Lake
The Killing

Are there any other serialized mystery/crime shows like this that I'm missing? I really like this format when it's done well. The Killing didn't pull it off as well as the others, but I enjoyed it.

True Detective was a little bit different from those other shows, in that it wasn't so much about the mystery. The two main characters' lives seemed to be more of the focus of the show, with the case being secondary. I also can't recall any real red herrings, which those other shows rely on pretty heavily.

I also enjoyed Rectify, though I'm not sure whether it falls within this genre.

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Old 03-12-2014, 04:46 PM   #283
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I recently watched and enjoyed The Fall - it's a serialized drama in the same vein. It stars Gillian Anderson.

I actually thought that there were many red herrings in True Detective:

1. Marty's father-in-law
2. Marty's daughter's Barbie diorama
3. The Yellow King - the identity of the Yellow King was presented as a central mystery, but it wound up being unresolved/allegorical
4. The suggestion that Marty's daughter Audrey was sexually abused
5. The hand-drawn spiral on Marty's kitchen wall

Those are just a few that come to mind. I'm not complaining about them - I loved the season - but I wouldn't say it was a series without red herrings...
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:40 PM   #284
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That's why I put the word "real" in front of "red herrings." Maybe not the best word choice. What I meant was those really strong red herrings, where there is some clue or evidence that makes it seem extremely likely that a specific person is the perpetrator. Early on in one of the shows I listed, there was almost a "red herring of the week."

I watched the first episode of The Fall a while back and I wasn't that interested, but I'll give it another shot.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:22 AM   #285
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I recently watched and enjoyed The Fall - it's a serialized drama in the same vein. It stars Gillian Anderson.

I actually thought that there were many red herrings in True Detective:

1. Marty's father-in-law
2. Marty's daughter's Barbie diorama
3. The Yellow King - the identity of the Yellow King was presented as a central mystery, but it wound up being unresolved/allegorical
4. The suggestion that Marty's daughter Audrey was sexually abused
5. The hand-drawn spiral on Marty's kitchen wall

Those are just a few that come to mind. I'm not complaining about them - I loved the season - but I wouldn't say it was a series without red herrings...
I'm not sure if I'd call them red herrings as much as just unresolved storylines. I am not sure they were put there to throw us off who the killers were as much as to show some character flaws (and I admit, I read way too much into those things). The story of the killers was pretty straight forward detective work and we really kinda knew who it probably was toward the middle of the series, or at least we could see where it was headed. I think the problem is, we've seen SO many of these types of stories that we go off LOOKING for red herrings and have become so easily fooled.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:24 AM   #286
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Brilliant!

I know some won't like the ending, but I did. I never believed, or wanted, it to be either Marty or Rust.

There was a time when I thought they would both die. Glad that didn't happen.

Overall, best damn show in ages.
I didn't think it would be either of them, either. I liked the ending. It certainly was exciting (and mondo creepy!) for a while there. I have to say that I thought Rust was going to die. I had a premonition of that almost as soon as the last episode began.

I figured he was going to give it ALL toward getting this guy, and hopefully the rest of them, and it would also serve to leave the opening for WH to do another season with a new partner.

I very much liked the evolution of the relationship between Rust and Marty, also.

Yeah, I'd have liked for the whole bunch to be caught. Maybe that's for S02? Who knows. But what they did, I thought they did well.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:46 AM   #287
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...and it would also serve to leave the opening for WH to do another season with a new partner.
...Yeah, I'd have liked for the whole bunch to be caught. Maybe that's for S02? Who knows.
The people involved have made it clear that if there is a season two, it will be a completely new cast with a completely new story. While I suppose you could say that new characters chasing down the remaining perpetrators from this case would technically be a "new" story, I don't believe that's likely to be what they do. I think each season will be a complete stand-alone series, unrelated to each other in any way.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:13 PM   #288
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The people involved have made it clear that if there is a season two, it will be a completely new cast with a completely new story. While I suppose you could say that new characters chasing down the remaining perpetrators from this case would technically be a "new" story, I don't believe that's likely to be what they do. I think each season will be a complete stand-alone series, unrelated to each other in any way.
I wonder if they will use the same locale (the Louisiana Bayou) or set it somewhere completely different. I have no idea if the writer is from that part of the country or has some knowledge of it, or just thought it was an interesting setting for that story.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:47 PM   #289
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Ah, I see. Somewhere I had read some scuttlebutt that maybe WH was coming back. Probably just gossip.

At any rate, I would watch another season and hope that they continue with good writing, good character development, and I cannot help but hope for another pair of stellar actors. I know the writers write the characters, but the actors create them.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:54 PM   #290
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Ah, I see. Somewhere I had read some scuttlebutt that maybe WH was coming back. Probably just gossip.

At any rate, I would watch another season and hope that they continue with good writing, good character development, and I cannot help but hope for another pair of stellar actors. I know the writers write the characters, but the actors create them.
Considering how well written and how well received TD was, I'd think you might get some big actors on board for season two. There's always some big names who want to do projects like this for the artistic value rather than strictly the money.
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:11 PM   #291
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TD Season 2, with David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson? Dennis Franz and Jimmy Smits?
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:32 AM   #292
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Considering how well written and how well received TD was, I'd think you might get some big actors on board for season two. There's always some big names who want to do projects like this for the artistic value rather than strictly the money.
Yeah, I think there'll be a long line of actors eager to be part of something like this.

This format really lends itself to that. It's not a long term commitment for the actors, i.e. a regular TV series, yet it's a lead role as opposed to a one time cameo.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:35 PM   #293
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I'm rewatching the show. In the first episode, Marty says to Rust:

"You attach an assumption to a piece of evidence, you start to bend the narrative to support it, prejudice yourself."

I think a lot of viewers fell into that trap, with the hunting for clues and creating their own red herrings and conspiracy theories.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:34 AM   #294
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Dell Shannon "Keep Searchin' (Follow the Sun)". I have a little trouble getting past that ripoff (or homage) at the start of each episode but I'm liking it after three.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:17 AM   #295
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At the risk of becoming very unpopular (I'm pretty unpopular as it is though, so whatever), I don't get the hype. I saw people on my Twitter feed saying this belongs up there with Breaking Bad and The Wire, and to me that's just insane.

I started watching about a week before episode 7, and I caught up in time to essentially watch that live. So maybe I watched it too quickly and I'm certain I missed some things. But to me it had a few unique things going for it that hyped the show: one writer for all the shows, one director for all the shows, and two big movie stars doing an 8-episode stint on television before they went back to their normal gigs.

Aside from that, it was your typical cop show, complete with pretty much every buddy cop cliche under the sun. It was made all at once, so the writer could throw in a ton of red herrings and easter eggs for the internet to talk about during the 8 weeks it was on the air, but ultimately led nowhere. I get the whole, "Life is a flat circle thing," which helps to explain why the whole Yellow King issue wasn't resolved. But that means there are a ton of abused kids out there having their lives ruined, and that to me is utterly unsatisfying, and I can't imagine it's something that Marty or Rust would've been satisfied with (which means, that with this being a one season run for the two of them means it's ultimately just a partial story).

There's a part of me that would like to go back and rewatch the season, but at the same time I feel like it would be something I'm not particularly interested in spending my time on.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:19 PM   #296
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Many of those cliches are not really cliches, are being exaggerated for the article, or are just plain wrong. He did not take a hatchet to the aorta. Perhaps the author has not heard of a rib cage before?

There weren't really that many red herrings as far as I could tell. There was one big one, and it was clear from the start of the series that it wasn't really a red herring because we knew from episode 1 that they didn't get the right guy.

Is it as good as the Wire? Heck no. I doubt anything ever will be. I think it stacks up well to the first season of Breaking Bad, though. Which I thought was fairly overrated (the first season, that is). BB didn't get "good" until at least the 2nd season, if not 3rd.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:01 PM   #297
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At the risk of becoming very unpopular (I'm pretty unpopular as it is though, so whatever), I don't get the hype. I saw people on my Twitter feed saying this belongs up there with Breaking Bad and The Wire, and to me that's just insane.

Aside from that, it was your typical cop show, complete with pretty much every buddy cop cliche under the sun.
There's nothing wrong with not liking a show, so no need to defend yourself.

For me, part of the attraction was the incredible acting. The story was very good, but WH and MM were incredible. I was mesmerized by their screen presence 90% of the time they were on.

The mystery was good. There wasn't the blatantly false red herring of the week (like The Killing). It's a mystery, so there have to be false leads, but they did a great job of mixing good leads with false trails. The way they cut between 1995/2002/2014 was well done. Helped us build the story in our heads as we watched.

And it bears repeating, WH & MM were just knocking it out of the park. I never felt they were simply slumming on TV before returning to their day jobs; they were creating a performance. That's all one can ask of an actor.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:04 PM   #298
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The acting and depth of the lead characters, the writing (dialogue), the cinematography/setting, and the story construct of jumping back and forth in time were all what made this an incredible must-watch show for me. The mystery was secondary.

So yeah, aside from all that, it might as well just be another few episodes of Law & Order.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:14 PM   #299
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There's nothing wrong with not liking a show, so no need to defend yourself.

For me, part of the attraction was the incredible acting. The story was very good, but WH and MM were incredible. I was mesmerized by their screen presence 90% of the time they were on.

The mystery was good. There wasn't the blatantly false red herring of the week (like The Killing). It's a mystery, so there have to be false leads, but they did a great job of mixing good leads with false trails. The way they cut between 1995/2002/2014 was well done. Helped us build the story in our heads as we watched.

And it bears repeating, WH & MM were just knocking it out of the park. I never felt they were simply slumming on TV before returning to their day jobs; they were creating a performance. That's all one can ask of an actor.
Pretty much all of this. A good story, well written, with great acting.... sooo refreshing.
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Old 03-18-2014, 02:26 PM   #300
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The acting and depth of the lead characters, the writing (dialogue), the cinematography/setting, and the story construct of jumping back and forth in time were all what made this an incredible must-watch show for me. The mystery was secondary.

So yeah, aside from all that, it might as well just be another few episodes of Law & Order.
I think what you say is true, but then when they lost the construct in eps 6-8, it lost a little of the pizzazz. It became a bit more straight forward, less awesome.
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