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Old 03-03-2014, 10:32 AM   #241
iamevan
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Hello all,

I'm soon to be a new TiVo user that made the switch from a custom built HTPC running Windows 8 with Media Center with a Ceton InfiniTV 6 tuner. The Ceton tuner and Windows Media Center has been a real let down, it works as advertised but I've expereienced numerous issues.

The major one being stuttering/flickering when watching certain channels. You can read more about it by Google searching 'Ceton 29/59 bug' or 'HBO (and other channels) rapid framerate changing - stuttering'.

I also have other issues including: audio loss for a few seconds when a show goes to commercial break, recordings starting late, series recordings being canceled after deleting a watched show, the guide listings are inaccurate for some channels, and various other bugs in WMC (one for example, at times when I try to open the guide listings it will instead open my recorded shows list).

The problems resides between Ceton, Microsoft, and the channel broadcasters so there is little hope for anything to be fixed anytime soon.

I just wanted to share my expereience with WMC. When software is no longer supported many issues begin to arise. I'm hoping my soon to arrive TiVo Roamio Pro will be a lot better. I assume part of the monthly subscription is used for future updates and patches which is what Ceton and MS WMC so desperately need.

Last edited by iamevan : 03-03-2014 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:34 PM   #242
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Sorry to hear you had problems with WMC. However, you're dealing with a PC platform so there are bound to be gremlins that creep in on occasion.

Who's your provider? I've never tried WMC on Windows 8 since Windows 7 is a very stable platform for Media Center. I used to see some flickering on HBO and a few other channels on FIOS with my InfiniTV 4 tuners until I installed a low-pass filter. The MoCA setup using the FIOS router interferes with certain channels. I no longer subscribe to HBO so I can't say whether this is still an ongoing issue, but I suspect it is.

I used to get video dropouts (i.e., screen going black) on occasion for about 10 seconds when a commercial break occurred, but it turned out to be an EDID issue that was easily resolved by using a HDMI Detective. There are less expensive ways to get around it by using an inf file.

Are you sending the audio to an AVR or other outboard device? Are you using analog or digital audio output? This could simply be a matter of properly configuring the audio device or it could be something else entirely.

Incorrect guide listing issues are a problem with Zap2it since they provide the guide data for WMC.

If you're trying to open the guide listings from the main menu, try using the Guide button on the remote instead. I used to have the same problem trying to access the guide from the menu system but it never occurs when I access it directly from the remote. I still don't know if this is a glitch with WMC or the codes used to program the remote.

The canceled series problem sounds like the option to delete a show is being supplanted by the Cancel Series option for some reason. Do you watch the show all the way to the end and then let it revert to the options menu without pressing the Stop button? There are situations where the menu has the Cancel Series option listed instead of the Delete option for the recording. You may be pressing the buttons too quickly to notice, resulting in the series cancellation.

For the recordings that started late, do you have any padding set up in the record settings? Were the truncated shows started immediately after another show ended? I pad all of my shows before and after the start and stop times and I've never had one start late unless there was a last minute schedule change or the show was preceded by a sporting event that ran over.

Which software are you implying is no longer supported? Just because WMC isn't being developed any further doesn't mean it's not supported. The fact that you can still download it from Microsoft and install it on a Windows 8 platform bears this out. That and the fact that you can still get guide data for free. There are several support forums that deal with WMC.

In any case, many of the issues you mentioned are typical of problems some people may have with WMC PCs. It helps to have some PC troubleshooting skills to resolve them, which is why this is an enthusiast's device and not an appliance. Sometime it works perfectly fine while on other occasions you may have to deal with issues like the ones above. I went through more than my share of growing pains in my early days with HTPCs, but my perseverence has paid off in the long run.
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:24 PM   #243
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I just checked my HTPC to confirm what I was saying about the delete option vs. the cancel series option and here's what's going on:

If you stop the program prior to playing it to completion, you will see the option to delete at the top of the list. If you allow the program to run all the way to the end and automatically display the dialog window with the three options, the topmost option is "cancel series." I suspect what you are doing is running the show to the end and then selecting the topmost option out of habit without seeing what it is you're selecting, which results in your series being canceled.

The best fix for this is to pad the recording at the end and then stop it after the program completes instead of letting it run. This will present you with the option to delete it rather than canceling the series.

Otherwise, restart playback and then stop it after a few seconds. You will now see the option to delete rather than cancel. I've always padded my recordings so this never ended up being a problem for me. I can see how this could be annoying to anyone that doesn't pad their recordings.

The bottom line is that WMC isn't canceling the series. You're doing it yourself. Granted, it is a bit confusing and the option could have been presented in a better manner to prevent this from happening, but it is what it is. Just look a little closer to the option before you select it in the future and you'll be fine.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:38 PM   #244
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Who's your provider?

Comcast, but I believe the stuttering/flickering occurs with other providers as well.

Are you sending the audio to an AVR or other outboard device? Are you using analog or digital audio output?

My HTPC Mini ITX motherboard HDMI output is connected directly to my TV.

Incorrect guide listing issues are a problem with Zap2it since they provide the guide data for WMC.

Yes, it's not bad for a free service. I just hope TiVos guide listings are more accurate because of the monthly subscription.

If you're trying to open the guide listings from the main menu, try using the Guide button on the remote instead. I used to have the same problem trying to access the guide from the menu system but it never occurs when I access it directly from the remote. I still don't know if this is a glitch with WMC or the codes used to program the remote.

I use a wireless keyboard or the Ceton My Media Center App to control WMC. If I select Tasks > Settings and then try to open the Guide from the menu it will then open correctly.

The canceled series problem sounds like the option to delete a show is being supplanted by the Cancel Series option for some reason. Do you watch the show all the way to the end and then let it revert to the options menu without pressing the Stop button? There are situations where the menu has the Cancel Series option listed instead of the Delete option for the recording. You may be pressing the buttons too quickly to notice, resulting in the series cancellation.

I'm very careful to only select delete after watching a show (I usually press 'stop' but sometimes I let the show run to the end). It doesn't happened all the time, but on occasion it will cancel the series even after selecting 'delete'.

For the recordings that started late, do you have any padding set up in the record settings? Were the truncated shows started immediately after another show ended? I pad all of my shows before and after the start and stop times and I've never had one start late unless there was a last minute schedule change or the show was preceded by a sporting event that ran over.

Yes, I have each series recording starting early and ending late. I believe it's an issue with the time on Windows. I turn my HTPC off at night and when I turn it back on in the morning the time might be a few minutes off. If I sync the time manually it will begin to record on time again; for some reason the automatic sync never works, I always receive an error.

Which software are you implying is no longer supported? Just because WMC isn't being developed any further doesn't mean it's not supported. The fact that you can still download it from Microsoft and install it on a Windows 8 platform bears this out. That and the fact that you can still get guide data for free. There are several support forums that deal with WMC.

I meant to say it's no longer receiving patches even though numerous issues are still around. A lot of the issues you can live with but the major one is the stuttering/flickering. I'll post a link to a Ceton knowledge base article once I reach 5 forum posts, lol...
Responses above.

Last edited by iamevan : 03-03-2014 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:44 PM   #245
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I just checked my HTPC to confirm what I was saying about the delete option vs. the cancel series option and here's what's going on:

If you stop the program prior to playing it to completion, you will see the option to delete at the top of the list. If you allow the program to run all the way to the end and automatically display the dialog window with the three options, the topmost option is "cancel series." I suspect what you are doing is running the show to the end and then selecting the topmost option out of habit without seeing what it is you're selecting, which results in your series being canceled.

The best fix for this is to pad the recording at the end and then stop it after the program completes instead of letting it run. This will present you with the option to delete it rather than canceling the series.

Otherwise, restart playback and then stop it after a few seconds. You will now see the option to delete rather than cancel. I've always padded my recordings so this never ended up being a problem for me. I can see how this could be annoying to anyone that doesn't pad their recordings.

The bottom line is that WMC isn't canceling the series. You're doing it yourself. Granted, it is a bit confusing and the option could have been presented in a better manner to prevent this from happening, but it is what it is. Just look a little closer to the option before you select it in the future and you'll be fine.
I thought it was accidentally canceling the series as well but like I said in the post above, I'm always careful to only select 'delete'. Almost all the time I 'stop' the show and then delete it, I very rarely let it run to the end and then delete.

It doesn't happened all the time either, it's probably only happened to me 3 times in the 6 months I've had my HTPC. It's not a major issue, just annoying. It usually can be caught by checking the series history and looking for any shows that have 'canceled' listed next to it.

Last edited by iamevan : 03-03-2014 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:44 PM   #246
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Here is the Ceton article on the stuttering/flickering 29/59 bug.

http://cetoncorp.com/support/index.p...g---stuttering

This issue is the main reason I'm switching to a TiVo. There are ways to lessen the stuttering/flickering but no way to really eliminate it without changing hardware parts or using an Xbox 360 as an extender.

Last edited by iamevan : 03-03-2014 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:26 AM   #247
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You've definitely got some weird issues going on. I had heard about the 29/59 bug, but only experienced something similar as a result of interference with my Actiontek router on FIOS. Once I installed the low pass filter it fixed the problem, hence my query about who your provider is. I've been mainly using the HD graphics from Intel Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPUs and most recently a Radeon HD7770 graphics card, none of which have exhibited the bug you described.

That's the thing about HTPCs. Sometimes you roll the dice and get hardware that works well together and other times you get issues like what you described. That's why I always recommend going with a pre-tested and recommended configuration when selecting HTPC hardware. It eliminates a lot of headaches.

I can't explain what's happening with your canceled series other than what I described. Have you tried using a WMC remote instead of your keyboard or Ceton app? I can only assume that certain keyboard commands aren't being translated properly. I can't recall ever canceling a series unless I actually selected the option, whether intentionally or by mistake. I use a Harmony One remote programmed for use with a WMC PC and it works great.

I agree that there are definitely unresolved issues with WMC and it sucks that it's no longer being updated. It's far from perfect. It's also the only DVR app available for a PC that can record flagged content with a cablecard tuner. With the right combination of hardware and software, it can work quite well as a DVR and whole house media center. Otherwise, it can have you tearing your hair out and shouting obscenities at Microsoft and any other hardware or software vendor involved. I have the misfrotune of having to use Microsoft Word on a regular basis so I find myself doing just that almost daily.

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Old 03-04-2014, 09:56 AM   #248
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I think the OP should get some recognition for this Thread as the original question was answered long ago, but the Thread keeps going, going, going. I guess the OP hit a nerve for many on this site.
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:27 PM   #249
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If you look at the history of this forum and many others, threads that should have died long ago always seem to resurface and go on indefinitely. This is one of the few threads I participate in so if someone posts something I am very likely to respond. If it bothers you, just ignore it and move on.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:45 PM   #250
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If you look at the history of this forum and many others, threads that should have died long ago always seem to resurface and go on indefinitely. This is one of the few threads I participate in so if someone posts something I am very likely to respond. If it bothers you, just ignore it and move on.
I never said it bothers me I just find it amusing.
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Old 03-04-2014, 01:53 PM   #251
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:01 PM   #252
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It's a rather interesting topic, since they are the only two non-MSO options left for DVRs. However, it's also sort of a sad story, since CableCard has effectively come to supporting TiVo, and the few MCE boxes left.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:52 AM   #253
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The real downside to WMC is for the couple of weeks a years when Microsoft stops providing guide data and you come close to running out before they send new data.

I, along with a lot of other people, seem to have run into this again - given guide data lasing up to March 21, 2014. Microsoft knew of the problem last week, and supposedly fixed it, but the updated guide has yet to fully propagate.

Not much of a problem if the WMC guide would properly identify new episodes a la TiVo, but when I have to copy my TiVo's To-Do list to WMC, a huge annoyance as there's no recordings set for next week.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:18 AM   #254
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Microsoft is aware of the issue and has supposedly sent out a fix. It may take some time before it reaches your PC, but it should hopefully get into place before the current guide listings run out. They actually issued a letter of apology and admitted that they dropped the ball by getting sidetracked on another unrelated problem.

One thing I found interesting about this scenario is that I discovered that Zap2it sends the guide data to Microsoft for processing and distribution to WMC users. They do the same with Tivo so it appears that each source is tweaking the data specifically for the designated platform. That could certainly account for the lack of certain metadata being included in the WMC guide listings.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:44 AM   #255
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Yeah, I know. I've had WMC for a few years now, and it happens at least once a year that Microsoft drops the ball and you get down to 1 day of guide before update. It's fairly regular, it seems. The last time it happened I found the Microsoft Connect website that covered the issue.

And yes, they may have fixed it, but no, no new guide data at all.

Of course, other times they screwed up the lineups and you basically had to re-do the setup twice (once to use some other location's lineups, again to reset it back to your location).

There was a really unusual case where Microsoft completely screwed up the lineups in our area. Luckily there were enough Connect users that it was easily identified as being limited to the entire city.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:57 AM   #256
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Guide data updated last night. I have data at least up to 3/31/14 now.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:10 AM   #257
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Guide data updated last night. I have data at least up to 3/31/14 now.
While this has happened before, this is still not a good sign. MS is not obligated to provide guide service and with them basically disbanding the WMC team, I can this this happening again. And next time MS may say "OK we will start charging for the service.", but most likely they'll just end it.

I'm using my three Tivo's for cable and WMC for OTA. If MS drops support, I'll just convert my HTPV to XBMC and get my guide data from Schedules Direct. Sadly freeware products often have better support than MS products since MS is quick to drop something if it doesn't fit their vision (or profit projections).
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:26 PM   #258
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No need to switch to XBMC if you're happy with WMC. You can import your guide data from Schedules Direct using Big Screen EPG:

http://bigscreenglobal.com/bgproduct.aspx?PID=BSEV1

I've been looking into this so as to avoid any future guide data outages if Microsoft has another brain fart. OTOH, although this has happened several times in the past, I've never actually run out of guide data. Microsoft has always managed to get things squared away before that happened.
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Old 03-20-2014, 08:11 AM   #259
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So you pay SD every year, then after that pay Big Screen too. Nice.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:13 PM   #260
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So you pay SD every year, then after that pay Big Screen too. Nice.
Big Screen EPG costs a whopping $2 per PC per year and is basically just a tool for importing guide data in xml format into WMC. Schedules Direct is $25 per year for the full guide data. I've got three HTPCs so it would cost a grand total of $31 annually. I prefer free, but $31 a year isn't going to break the bank.

Like I said, I have only been looking into it. So far I've never actually run out of guide data since I've switched to WMC so chances are I'll stick with what I have. It's just nice to know there are options available. Some people have noted their displeasure in the WMC guide data so it's nice to have an alternative solution.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:47 PM   #261
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Tivo has free space indicator that can be displayed on the My Shows list, Media Center makes you dig in the settings to find it.
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Old 03-20-2014, 01:49 PM   #262
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A free space indicator is a WAG in most cases. Just about every program on every channel is broadcast with different bit rates and is determined by the provider. The resulting file size for any given recorded program can vary considerably.

Free space is only an issue if you tend to hoard recordings and not purge them to make room for new ones. The best protection against loss of recordings is to make sure your hard drive is large enough to handle any worst case scenario. This holds true for both Tivo and HTPCs.

Case in point, no recordings will ever reside on my HTPC recording drive for more than a week to 10 days unless I'm out of town for more than a week. I watch most shows within 3-4 days of being recorded. I only have a 1.5TB drive for recording, but it rarely gets more than half full.

FYI, just looking at the drive in Windows Explorer indicates how much space is available. You don't need a special app to figure it out nor do you have to dig into any settings to find it.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:15 PM   #263
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You waited a whole 10 days before stirring the pot this time. You must be slacking off.

Nobody is trying to convince you that WMC is better than your Tivo. You use whatever suits your needs and I'll keep using WMC or whatever PC-based setup I desire. I just picked up a SageTV server license so I plan on playing with that when I can find the time. I'd also like to take a crack at using Media Portal and the latest XBMC version that supports cablecards. This thread was supposed to be about WMC so I haven't branched out to discuss those areas in more detail.

You can argue all of the insigificant points you like but it still doesn't change the fact that a PC-based DVR or media center PC is far more versatile than any Tivo ever made. Both platforms have their pluses and minuses. I just feel that a HTPC has more in the plus column overall than a Tivo, but that's just my opinion.

Heat and noise are irrelevant because they're things you can fix if you deem it necessary, and it won't break the bank to do so. Cost is also a non-issue because anyone planning on building a HTPC won't think twice about spending more on it than a Tivo. Energy consumption with today's PC hardware is at an all-time low. My NUCs probably consume about the same energy as a Tivo, if only slightly more (the power supply is only rated at 19.5 watts, IIRC). You can use a Raspberry Pi with OpenElec (an XBMC distribution) for streaming 1080P Blu-Rays with HD audio that will use less energy than a Tivo. I haven't heard of anyone using it as a DVR, but I have no doubt it can probably be done with the right setup.

I only pointed out that it's possible to build a HTPC for the same or even less than a Tivo. In reality, most people will opt for a more expensive solution. If you want to continue to nickel and dime the argument to death then that's on you. That horse has been dead for quite some time now so please put down your club.

You and Bigg seem determined to try and convince the rest of the world that WMC is a POS and should not be used under any circumstances. The real truth is that you seem to be trying harder to convince yourselves of this because the majority of people that have tried WMC aren't buying it. I get the feeling that you guys must have been traumatized by Bill Gates or someone from Microsoft at a very early age to exhibit this much hatred and contempt. I think you'd be surprised to learn just how many members here also use HTPCs and are active in the Home Theater PC section of the AVS Forums.

I'm not here to pick a fight with anyone. If you don't like WMC then that's your right. It's also my right to use whatever platform I choose. All of your comments aren't going to change my thought process nor do I expect mine to change your way of thinking. Like I said, it's all good.

Peace.
The WMC setup now makes for a much worse comparison to Tivo than it did a few years ago. That's why the Tivo is the way to go. That's all. That''s today's reality.


You can post paragraphs of well maybe this or that will work in the future if I do this or that or if you spend this or that amount of money and put in this amount of time etc etc then you can get it to this or that point and you can get these extra things if you do install this or that .....it just all acknowledges the larger truth. Tivo is the way go.

I enjoy my WMC setup, but I'm not blind. I can't say the same thing for you.

This thread is about differences in the platforms and the differences have tilted in Tivo's favor. I don't have to convince anyone. The facts speak for themselves. And this doesn't mean WMC can't do the job. Or doesn't do the job. OR won't be someone's cup of tea. And that you or anyone else including myself can't and doesn't enjoy WMC. But the facts have changed the past few years. I am just acknowledging today's reality.

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Old 03-21-2014, 02:25 PM   #264
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A free space indicator is a WAG in most cases. Just about every program on every channel is broadcast with different bit rates and is determined by the provider. The resulting file size for any given recorded program can vary considerably.

Free space is only an issue if you tend to hoard recordings and not purge them to make room for new ones. The best protection against loss of recordings is to make sure your hard drive is large enough to handle any worst case scenario. This holds true for both Tivo and HTPCs.

Case in point, no recordings will ever reside on my HTPC recording drive for more than a week to 10 days unless I'm out of town for more than a week. I watch most shows within 3-4 days of being recorded. I only have a 1.5TB drive for recording, but it rarely gets more than half full.

FYI, just looking at the drive in Windows Explorer indicates how much space is available. You don't need a special app to figure it out nor do you have to dig into any settings to find it.
The fact is Tivo makes it easier to see your recording space usage.

The guy wasn't arguing whether you use it or not. He's just pointing out a difference between the two systems.

And it was a feature owners of older Tivo models wanted to see happen.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:31 PM   #265
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Big Screen EPG costs a whopping $2 per PC per year and is basically just a tool for importing guide data in xml format into WMC. Schedules Direct is $25 per year for the full guide data. I've got three HTPCs so it would cost a grand total of $31 annually. I prefer free, but $31 a year isn't going to break the bank.

Like I said, I have only been looking into it. So far I've never actually run out of guide data since I've switched to WMC so chances are I'll stick with what I have. It's just nice to know there are options available. Some people have noted their displeasure in the WMC guide data so it's nice to have an alternative solution.

Another case for why Tivo is the way to go.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:32 PM   #266
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My WMC guide data wasn't updating either. Had 2 day's worth of listings left. Finally updated.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:54 PM   #267
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Sure it does - it's still cheaper than Tivo for whole house once you get beyond a couple of TVs. I've seen your arguments saying that it's not and don't agree with them (for the reasonably tech-savvy among us, that is - certain folks here had no business rolling up WMC).
WMC had a big advantage in price a few years ago because Tivo had no extenders. That advantage isn't there today.

The cheaper part is a stretch today compared to a few years ago.

Yes you can most likely get a 360 for quite a bit cheaper than the list price of a Mini. Maybe you own one already. But I'd say the Mini by most accounts seems like the better extender. WAy more efficient. Much much smaller. And comes with a better remote for tv viewing than a 360. I wouldn't doubt a Mini would save you $10/yr or more on electricity costs either. So it isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Your only other realistic option is the Ceton extender and that's not had very good good reviews at all. And comes with a crap remote.

On the pc front I don't think things are much cheaper for an equivalent device either. You can build dirt cheap pcs, but again not apples to apples comparison then. Heat, noise, size, efficiency are worse in cheaper pcs.

Then there's the time factor. Being capable of doing something and having the time to do it are two different things. And getting something for cheaper that is going to require many more hours of work to get going than the more expensive thing that doesn't require any time isn't an apples to apples comparison either. Time is money.

Otherwise it is like saying Coke is cheaper than Pepsi if you're looking for a cola but then finding out Pepsi requires you to spend hours to mix the ingredients before you can enjoy it. I mean that would be a big asterisk then, right, by any reasonable measure. Wouldn't you feel a bit pissed if someone said this car is much cheaper and then you went to get it and discovered that it is but you put to install a bunch of parts on it. Not only that but it comes with a bunch of gift cards and not the actual parts. You have to shop for your parts using the gift cards that came with your car. IT's cheaper though right?

Last edited by trip1eX : 03-21-2014 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 03-21-2014, 03:28 PM   #268
mschnebly
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I love you guys always singing to the choir. I mean this is a TiVo site so I surely don't expect you to claim anything is better than your TiVo. LOL, for whatever reason my HTPC and been trouble free for the last couple of years. Maybe I'm just lucky. Using our Harmony One, my wife only knows it by "The Cable Box" and has no problems at all. My TiVo Premiere has been happily sitting in the closet unplugged and that's where it will stay. It would lockup way too much for me. TiVo's are fine for those who cant build an HTPC to be problem free. When my HTTP becomes obsolete I'll probably get the Comcast X1. Everyone should just use what you like best. I don't want to change anyone's mind on TiVo and none of your problems with HTPCs will change mine. We should just use what works.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:56 PM   #269
trip1eX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnebly View Post
I love you guys always singing to the choir. I mean this is a TiVo site so I surely don't expect you to claim anything is better than your TiVo. LOL, for whatever reason my HTPC and been trouble free for the last couple of years. Maybe I'm just lucky. Using our Harmony One, my wife only knows it by "The Cable Box" and has no problems at all. My TiVo Premiere has been happily sitting in the closet unplugged and that's where it will stay. It would lockup way too much for me. TiVo's are fine for those who cant build an HTPC to be problem free. When my HTTP becomes obsolete I'll probably get the Comcast X1. Everyone should just use what you like best. I don't want to change anyone's mind on TiVo and none of your problems with HTPCs will change mine. We should just use what works.
It isn't about changing minds. This thread is about discussing facts. A few years ago WMC had 4 tuners and Tivo had 2. A few years ago WMC had extenders and Tivo didn't. A few years ago the hd space in a base Tivo was crap. A few years you couldn't just pop a new hd into your Tivo. A few years ago your Tivo didn't stream to your mobile device. A few years ago the Tivo UI was sluggish. The list goes on.

But it's 2014. None of this is true today. WMC has stagnated. And today MS no longer supports future development of the platform. The facts today take us to Tivo with little to no reason to choose WMC.

Last edited by trip1eX : 03-21-2014 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 03-22-2014, 03:13 AM   #270
Worf
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Not only that, but WMC brings a lot of the whole "PC" experience to TV. And I'm not talking about the good things. It's got all the little niggles and annoyances inherent in a Windows PC brought to TV.

But in the end, I use WMC because my TiVos don't work with our cable system anymore. It's sort of the runner up experience. I'm glad I have it because it's way more advanced than the cable box. It's just the niggles and annoyances that bring it down.
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