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Old 09-18-2015, 05:49 PM   #1
callmebob12345
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MoCA question

I had some trouble with my CC install today and am going to try again tomorrow, but I have a quick question about setting up MoCA. I have one line coming to the outside of my house from the pedestal outside. That line is split in two, with a direct run straight to my cable modem, and the other split goes into a POE filter and then another splitter that feeds runs that go to the wall outlets at the TV locations. I assume that this would keep the MoCA network only on the TV feeds and keep the signal from going downstream and back to the first line that feeds my modem.


Is it correct that I would then do one final split at the Tivo with one line directly to the Tivo and the other line I should install a second POE filter right before the "In" on my Tuning Adapter? I think I've read this, but I'm unclear on whether this is correct.

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Old 09-18-2015, 07:20 PM   #2
FORDguy97
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In short you are correct with both statements. Enjoy!

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Old 09-18-2015, 08:04 PM   #3
krkaufman
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Totally correct on paragraph 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmebob12345 View Post
Is it correct that I would then do one final split at the Tivo with one line directly to the Tivo and the other line I should install a second POE filter right before the "In" on my Tuning Adapter? I think I've read this, but I'm unclear on whether this is correct.
Re: this second question, what model Roamio are you talking about, and how do you plan on networking it?

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Old 09-18-2015, 08:31 PM   #4
krkaufman
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Re: this second question, what model Roamio are you talking about, and how do you plan on networking it?
Nevermind. I did a quick check on your recent posts and see that you've gone w/ a Roamio Plus.

So, yeah, you should be able to setup your Plus w/ a tuning adapter per the "Tuning Adapter" diagram in the initial post to the 'Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo' thread.


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Old 09-18-2015, 09:43 PM   #5
callmebob12345
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Nevermind. I did a quick check on your recent posts and see that you've gone w/ a Roamio Plus.

So, yeah, you should be able to setup your Plus w/ a tuning adapter per the "Tuning Adapter" diagram in the initial post to the 'Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo' thread.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm still a little bit confused about the POE filter in that diagram though. I thought that they only block in one direction, the side that actually screws into something? So shouldn't the filter screw into the second port on the splitter and then run the coax from the other side of the filter into the TA to keep the MoCA signal from traveling up to the TA? I'm probably wrong about that, but if that is the case, screwing the filter into the TA wouldn't do anything but block a non existent MoCA signal coming from the TA, not going into it. I don't know how well I just explained that.


Last edited by callmebob12345; 09-18-2015 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:02 PM   #6
krkaufman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmebob12345 View Post
Thanks for the heads up. I'm still a little bit confused about the POE filter in that diagram though. I thought that they only block in one direction, the side that actually screws into something? So shouldn't the filter screw into the second port on the splitter and then run the coax from the other side of the filter into the TA to keep the MoCA signal from traveling up to the TA? I'm probably wrong about that, but if that is the case, screwing the filter into the TA wouldn't do anything but block a non existent MoCA signal coming from the TA, not going into it. I don't know how well I just explained that.
Several members have stated that MoCA PoE filters are not directional. e.g.:
Quote:
fcfc2: One other point with MoCA, the POE, or point of entry filter is functionally the same as a Whole Home DVR filter, and final point, these filters are not directional, i.e., you can use them in either direction.
If you're still concerned, yes, it could just as easily be attached to the output port of the splitter.

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Old 09-18-2015, 10:11 PM   #7
krkaufman
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Off-topic: What if the OP were installing a basic Roamio?

Does anyone have a recommendation on how one would connect a basic Roamio in this scenario? (i.e. CableCARD, Tuning Adapter required, MoCA network connection)

Would you just run a coax to the basic Roamio's coax in from *either* the RF Out of the Tuning adapter or the STB Out of the MoCA adapter (... where the outputs of the 2-way splitter connect to the tuning adapter and the MoCA adapter)? Or would a 3-way splitter be recommended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Nevermind. I did a quick check on your recent posts and see that you've gone w/ a Roamio Plus.

So, yeah, you should be able to setup your Plus w/ a tuning adapter per the "Tuning Adapter" diagram in the initial post to the 'Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo' thread.


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Old 09-18-2015, 11:21 PM   #8
ramiss
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The OP does not indicate a MoCA adapter from the MoCA network to the Internet (router LAN). You need to bridge the two networks so the TiVos can get online. You would put that on the house side of the POE filter.

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Old 09-18-2015, 11:33 PM   #9
BigJimOutlaw
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Does anyone have a recommendation on how one would connect a basic Roamio in this scenario? (i.e. CableCARD, Tuning Adapter required, MoCA network connection)
With a basic Roamio or 2-tuner box it probably doesn't matter if the Tivo's RF-in gets fed by the TA or the moca adapter. I would "trust" the moca adapter a little more since I am more familiar with them, but that's just superstition.

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Old 09-18-2015, 11:37 PM   #10
krkaufman
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Originally Posted by ramiss View Post
The OP does not indicate a MoCA adapter from the MoCA network to the Internet (router LAN). You need to bridge the two networks so the TiVos can get online. You would put that on the house side of the POE filter.
Good point.

I was assuming they'd be using the Roamio Plus to create their MoCA network; however, it hasn't been stated that they can run an Ethernet cable from their router to the Plus for that purpose.

Bob?

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Old 09-19-2015, 07:53 AM   #11
callmebob12345
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I will be using the Plus to create the MoCA network and I have an ethernet connection and switch behind my downstairs TV setup to connect the Plus to my main network. This should work, correct?

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Old 09-19-2015, 11:11 AM   #12
BigJimOutlaw
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Yep you're all set Bob.

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Old 09-19-2015, 11:20 AM   #13
krkaufman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmebob12345 View Post
I will be using the Plus to create the MoCA network and I have an ethernet connection and switch behind my downstairs TV setup to connect the Plus to my main network. This should work, correct?
Quite correct. Thanks for the feedback.

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Old 09-20-2015, 09:34 PM   #14
snerd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Does anyone have a recommendation on how one would connect a basic Roamio in this scenario? (i.e. CableCARD, Tuning Adapter required, MoCA network connection)

Would you just run a coax to the basic Roamio's coax in from *either* the RF Out of the Tuning adapter or the STB Out of the MoCA adapter (... where the outputs of the 2-way splitter connect to the tuning adapter and the MoCA adapter)? Or would a 3-way splitter be recommended?
I'm guessing that the Tuning Adapter might have an internal 2-way splitter that is fed by the RF IN port with one splitter port connected to RF OUT while the other is used internally. If this is the case, then I'd think it would be better to connect the RF OUT to the Roamio rather than using a 3-way splitter.

A more interesting case is possible with the MoCA adapter. Since the MoCA adapter only needs the MoCA frequencies, and we believe that it filters out MoCA frequencies before passing the signals to the TV/STB port, there is a good chance that the MoCA apapter acts like a diplexer so that the video signals are passed to the TV/STB port with only ~1dB insertion loss, while the MoCA signals are passed into the adapter with a similar ~1dB loss. This would make a lot of sense from an engineering perspective, because it would give better signal strength for both sets of signals. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any specs on the Adaptec web site which specify the insertion loss for the ECB2500C.

I'd recommend connecting the TV/STB port from the MoCA adapter to the TiVo, as that is unlikely to be worse than any alternate connection, and there is a good chance that it will be better. I need to get some hardware and do some experiments -- it should be easy enough to measure the insertion loss for the MoCA apapter. I don't have a tuning adapter, so someone else would have to measure that.

Of course, whichever connection is used, the unused ports should have 75-ohm terminations attached.

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Old 09-21-2015, 02:43 AM   #15
krkaufman
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I need to get some hardware and do some experiments -- it should be easy enough to measure the insertion loss for the MoCA apapter. I don't have a tuning adapter, so someone else would have to measure that.
Please don't hassle yourself on my account. I was just curious, and so posed the theoretical question, not seeing it addressed in the Tuning Adapter section of the OP for the 'Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo' thread.

Thanks for the feedback.

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Old 09-21-2015, 09:54 AM   #16
snerd
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Please don't hassle yourself on my account. I was just curious, and so posed the theoretical question, not seeing it addressed in the Tuning Adapter section of the OP for the 'Setting up a MoCA Network for Tivo' thread.

Thanks for the feedback.
No hassle, I was actually thinking about doing some experiments with splitters and diplexers anyway, to check some of my assumptions. It will be interesting to find out if the MoCA adapter is built as I've speculated.

I'm also planning to buy a couple of cheap DECA adapters to dismantle. I'm wondering if it might be possible to hack a DECA adapter to work with D band frequencies. That would allow a much more cost effective MoCA network, since the DECA adapters can be bought for about $2 in quantity from Amazon.

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