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Old 07-14-2014, 11:16 AM   #1
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Pause Buffer

I have a Roamio Plus. Is there a way to increase the pause buffer from 30 minutes to something like 2 hours? 30 minutes seems extremely low for a device that can record up to 300 hours of HD content. It seems a simple option in settings would resolve this. i.e. stating times (30 minutes, 1 hour, 2 hours, etc) or percent of available space (10% of free space, 20%, 30%, etc).
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:20 AM   #2
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It wasn't that simple back in the days when we could hack the software (lengthening the buffer was easy, getting the progress bar to behave correctly was the issue). But we can't get at the software any longer so I don't think there is a way to this anymore.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:20 AM   #3
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No. Hit record and then it should capture the show.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:25 AM   #4
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No. Hit record and then it should capture the show.
That's an option, but just not convenient to record a show and then have to fast-forward to the point that could have been paused, and then delete it. We have a huge hard drive and pausing for longer than 30 minutes shouldn't be a big deal. It just curious why such a low buffer was programmed into the TiVo for no practical reason.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:26 AM   #5
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History...it's always been 30 minutes, all the way back to the original TiVo.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:26 AM   #6
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It wasn't that simple back in the days when we could hack the software (lengthening the buffer was easy, getting the progress bar to behave correctly was the issue). But we can't get at the software any longer so I don't think there is a way to this anymore.
I would love the ability to tweak the settings myself. Being a purchased item that we own, it would be a nice to have this option.

Thanks!
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:32 AM   #7
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Back when we had DirecTiVos (Tivos built for the DirecTV service) I had hacked the buffers to 90 minutes each (the DirecTiVos were roughly equivalent to a Series 2 Dual Tuner). The DirecTV DVRs buffer for an hour, which is, IMHO, the minimum that's really useful. But the TiVos have other advantages over the alternatives, so we just have to learn to press record more often.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:38 PM   #8
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That's an option, but just not convenient to record a show and then have to fast-forward to the point that could have been paused, and then delete it. We have a huge hard drive and pausing for longer than 30 minutes shouldn't be a big deal. It just curious why such a low buffer was programmed into the TiVo for no practical reason.
It should remember the pause point, though sometimes it does not. Or, clear the buffer and then pause.

6 tuners at 30 minutes each starts to take some space. Tivo decided to not have a longer buffer, so recording is always the safer bet. Its not a big deal, just hit record.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:41 PM   #9
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It should remember the pause point, though sometimes it does not. Or, clear the buffer and then pause.

6 tuners at 30 minutes each starts to take some space. Tivo decided to not have a longer buffer, so recording is always the safer bet. Its not a big deal, just hit record.
Recording is much easier than relying on the bufer. All it takes is an errant button press and poof, the buffer is gone.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:46 PM   #10
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Recording is much easier than relying on the bufer. All it takes is an errant button press and poof, the buffer is gone.
Yes, I have poofed a couple of buffers I didn't want poofed so I learned long ago to hit record if I want to have the buffer available for a while. Deleting a recording isn't difficult. I also think 30 minute buffer is the proper choice, everything considered, an hour or two with smaller stock hard drives would have too much space dedicated for buffering.
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:49 PM   #11
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Thanks everyone!

I think I'll hit the record button as suggested. The risk of changing the channel and losing the buffer is greater than just hitting record. :P

Thanks again to all that helped with this.
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Old 07-14-2014, 04:42 PM   #12
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Variable buffer for the tuner you're actively tuning would be nice. No reason it should be 30 minutes unless you're tapped for space.

The non active tuners 30 minutes is more than adequate.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:58 AM   #13
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I, too, wish we could have a setting for this. Been dozens of times over the past 5 months where I sat down in front of TV when a show was past the 30 minutes point and couldn't rewind to the very beginning to a show I didn't know I was going to be interested in watching. My previous dvr had a 60 minute buffer and finding it difficult to adjust to 30 minutes.

Also wish that when watching within the 30 minute buffer (delayed), we didn't have to pause when swapping btwn tunners. I'm a constant tuner swapper, especially during competing sports events and countless times I've messed up pausing btwn swapping and have jumped to live, which revealed score results I didn't want to know yet. Again previous dvr retained delay point btwn swaps.

Anyway, just something I miss now that I use a tivo, and my brain got highly used to for 7 years.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:05 AM   #14
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Hitting record helps with nearly all of those uses. Suggestions *may* help with the other.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:20 PM   #15
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My previous dvr also warned you if you were about to "poof" out of a buffer (if not viewing it at live point) . Very handy, although I'm sure some would find it annoying. I preferred the warning.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:34 PM   #16
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If you hit record, you will get the same warning (when all tuners are in use, that is).

I would put this on the annoying side, personally, as managing the buffer is a PITA compared to just recording everything (including sports).
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:32 PM   #17
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If you hit record, you will get the same warning (when all tuners are in use, that is).

I would put this on the annoying side, personally, as managing the buffer is a PITA compared to just recording everything (including sports).
It's a preference item. Some prefer to record instead of pause....but at some point it makes the pause button less meaningful. The point is that it would be nice to be able to pause for longer periods. There is no technical reason for not being able to do so. We all use our TiVo's in variable ways that suit our needs. In this instance a longer pause time would meet some and recording would suit others. I prefer to pause and look at having to record as a workaround and a waste of the available 250GB remaining DVR disk space. This is a small request with what should be a fairly simple solution for TiVo to implement.

I can have 6 simultaneous recording going on, but can't pause for more than 30 minutes. I know it's how it's always been, but perhaps it's time for a change....or at least a user-definable option.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:36 PM   #18
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There is a technical reason- it has not been designed that way. I'm helping show how to get around the approach tivo has taken.

You can totally pause for as long as you want, with it recorded. Having longer default buffers digs way deeper into the capacity than recording a few additional shows does. User configuration would be nice, and would quiet the buffer managers out there, but is more difficult to implement and educate folks on. As an appliance, Tivo has tried to keep things as simple as possible, which to them means fixed buffers across the board.

Fine with me either way, I'm just explaining the reality of it.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:54 PM   #19
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I think I've already cast my vote. But, I'll cast another one anyway:

User configurable: Allow a maximum total that doesn't make TiVo's stone-age core DVR functions crash, and let the users decide if they even want all 4 or 6 tuners always buffering, and for how long within that "doesn't crash the TiVo" range, on those that are buffering. More buffer seems possible, since tuner counts increased, without losing buffer length per tuner. Less buffer, or no buffer seems entirely doable. I just don't see TiVo ever giving us features that the average luddite can't figure-out how to set, or won't realize something worked out the way it did, due to how they set it.

There are times I'd like 1 channel buffering for 2 hours, and the other three doing no buffering at all. For now, I just tune the other three to SD music channels that amount to less than 500MB over a 4 hour time period. I used to just tune to non-existent channels for no buffering. But, that lead to reboots once TAs rolled-out (either by-design, or who knows why).
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:35 PM   #20
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There is a technical reason- it has not been designed that way. I'm helping show how to get around the approach tivo has taken...
No, that is a design issue...there is no technical reason it can't be more. As I noted earlier, in the days when we could get access to the database all you really needed to do was to replace a single value to increase (or decrease) the length of the buffer (IOW, it is already, or at least was, a software setting). I never saw it crash the TiVo, but the progress bar frequently showed some odd results.

Even on a 6 tuner Roamio, the extra space is only 3 hours of recording time to increase the buffer from 30 to 60 minutes. If it were a configuration option, you could decide how to set it based on your usage pattern. To make the progress bar issue easier, restrict it to a few fixed options, like 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour, 1.5 hours or 2 hours. If you are a mostly "record it" sort of person, you can set it short. But the 2 hour setting would be ideal for movie lovers who might come in on the middle or even near the end of an interesting movie and still be able to rewind to the beginning.

Suggestions is a great feature, but it doesn't replace a longer buffer.
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Old 07-15-2014, 05:50 PM   #21
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People have been asking for a longer buffer since the TiVo has been in existence. Fifteen years later and it is still 30 minutes. I wouldn't expect it to change.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:37 PM   #22
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People have been asking for a longer buffer since the TiVo has been in existence. Fifteen years later and it is still 30 minutes. I wouldn't expect it to change.
On those music channels I was mentioning, they play in 4 hour blocks in the guide. I can be at 3:59, press record, and the buffer will backfill the whole guide slot, and it will all be there, audio and video (what little video is involved).

If I try rewinding past 30 minutes, without hitting record, all sorts of weird things happen, and the screen for any song might show up for what is playing...

So, bitrate has a profound effect on those channels, but real programming in SD or HD where there's a much greater bit rate difference don't seem to differentiate.

It's odd how it will cleave at the proper guide slot start and end time. Buffers used to backfill past the guide slots, and I liked that, in some cases.

Just an observation/data point, nothing more.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:51 PM   #23
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They still fill past the guide slot. They always have. It's annoying to me when it happens because then you have several minutes of the previous show which I don't want. It happened to me this weekend when I hit record on a show on the Science channel and got several minutes of the prior show.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:59 PM   #24
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They still fill past the guide slot. They always have. It's annoying to me when it happens because then you have several minutes of the previous show which I don't want. It happened to me this weekend when I hit record on a show on the Science channel and got several minutes of the prior show.
Actually, we both participated in a thread where some were posting your POV, and others were upset that backfilling beyond (before) the current program slot had stopped happening, instead clearing the buffer of what was being watched, and starting the recording of the current program slot in the guide, etc.

I don't recall the software version things were at for that discussion. But at the time, backfilling further back than the current program slot, had stopped working. Shake loose any memories of that discussion for you?
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:04 PM   #25
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There is a technical reason- it has not been designed that way. I'm helping show how to get around the approach tivo has taken.

You can totally pause for as long as you want, with it recorded. Having longer default buffers digs way deeper into the capacity than recording a few additional shows does. User configuration would be nice, and would quiet the buffer managers out there, but is more difficult to implement and educate folks on. As an appliance, Tivo has tried to keep things as simple as possible, which to them means fixed buffers across the board.

Fine with me either way, I'm just explaining the reality of it.
I've tried to stay out of this thread, as we've beat it to death a dozen times in the last few years. Those that want it, want it. You can try to sell it any way you want, but you're defending a dead horse. "technical reasons". HA! They just don't want to write the code to handle it, as is their choice to make.

It's neither feasible nor realistic to tell someone "just record it". As has been pointed out (and quietly ignored), sometimes there is something on the buffer and you just didn't know you would want to watch it. Any buffer is cool; a longer one would be better. I addition to my 3 TiVos I also have a DirecTV Genie--only 2 live buffers, but both are 90 minutes. There's not much I prefer about the Genie, but the buffers win.

"Having longer default buffers digs way deeper into the capacity than recording a few additional shows does." Really? Let's see, 6 buffers, add 1 hour each, that's... six more hours used. I have over 50 movies recorded, all 40 Game of Thrones, and another 40-50 shows waiting to be watched. And I'm at 42% capacity.

I think I'll give up the capacity.

This is no different than the endless threads on a Free Space Indicator. We used to discuss for hours on end the pros and cons, the reason why and why not. People would say "we don't need one, let your TiVo decide what to keep" and other arguments like they really knew the answer. The answer was TiVo finally gave us one, and that's that. Not one single discussion since about how it should show this, and shouldn't count that. It just works.

One day the buffers will magically lengthen, and that will be the end of these threads every six months.

Or what Diana Collins said much better than me while I was typing.
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:34 PM   #26
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It's neither feasible nor realistic to tell someone "just record it". As has been pointed out (and quietly ignored), sometimes there is something on the buffer and you just didn't know you would want to watch it
Am I the one "being quietly ignored", or part of that demographic?
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:40 AM   #27
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It's neither feasible nor realistic to tell someone "just record it". As has been pointed out (and quietly ignored), sometimes there is something on the buffer and you just didn't know you would want to watch it. Any buffer is cool; a longer one would be better. I addition to my 3 TiVos I also have a DirecTV Genie--only 2 live buffers, but both are 90 minutes. There's not much I prefer about the Genie, but the buffers win.

This is no different than the endless threads on a Free Space Indicator. We used to discuss for hours on end the pros and cons, the reason why and why not. People would say "we don't need one, let your TiVo decide what to keep" and other arguments like they really knew the answer. The answer was TiVo finally gave us one, and that's that. Not one single discussion since about how it should show this, and shouldn't count that. It just works.
I'm not sure why folks think I really care, as I do not. Want what you want, go ahead and live on the edge and manage buffers. I'm only explaining how it works, what a user can do to manage it without risking loosing the show (which is still easy to do in any of the scenarios discussed above).

6-90 minute buffers is nine hours of HD. What is the likelihood that someone finds a buffering show and hits record instead of managing the buffer? I don't know, but my only point is that to some folks nine hours is a lot in the buffer when compared to a few shows recorded manually once in a while. I also note that suggestions could also help capture this content. I'm just counting here, not explaining the right way to manage a tivo, to each their own.

I have never had a use for the FSI either, but it is there and I leave it on. NBD.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:18 AM   #28
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I'll add that I do end up using record, but my main point is that far too often I can't record an entire 60 minute show if I'm anywhere from 31 to 59:59 minutes into it. Unfortunately for me, I'm the type of person who won't watch most shows that I've missed the first few minutes of. A buffer of at least 60 minutes would enhance my use of my tivo significantly. I don't expect to get this, but I sure would like it.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:19 PM   #29
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It is a foolish feature to be without on a DVR. No reason what so ever for there to be only 30 minutes on your active tuner for pause.

Recording is a half ass work around that doesn't always work well.

The space indicator and this are excellent examples of how fanboi's can be.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:51 PM   #30
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It is a foolish feature to be without on a DVR. No reason what so ever for there to be only 30 minutes on your active tuner for pause.

Recording is a half ass work around that doesn't always work well.

The space indicator and this are excellent examples of how fanboi's can be.
??? For pause? Recording works. You never know how long you could be away from the TiVo. Or an incorrect button press and the buffer is gone. I learned in the early 2000's to just hit record instead of pause. It has worked well for me.
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