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Old 11-09-2014, 10:30 AM   #1
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Doctor Who - Death in Heaven (OAD 11/8/2014)

I felt this was pretty good, up until Missy's master plan was revealed. The plan made little sense, especially compared to how the Master acted the last time we saw him. As such the ending was anti-climactic.

Also I'm fairly certain a single shot from a Cyberman isn't enough to kill a Time Lord as we've seen them survive being shot by a Dalek, so I don't think Missy is dead.

The ending was okay, with both the Doctor and Clara lying and pretending everything was going well for them. Not sure what to make of the Christmas episode having Santa Claus in it though.

Overall though a rather disappointing season.
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:36 AM   #2
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I was disappointed in the episode and the season. It's a shame because I think Capaldi could do such a fantastic job with the role.

But yay Nick Frost!
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:45 AM   #3
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I really love Capaldi! He reminds me of some of the older Doctors (Baker, Pertwee, and Hartnell to be specific), yet is very separate from them. A good job of carrying the past into the present!

I got teary-eyed at the references to the Brig. Great hat-tip there!

As to the Master? I do not feel that the 'modern' era has done justice to the Master other than Sir Derek's brief appearance. He was EVIL, dagnabbit. Missy just struck me as silly; she trivialized all the evil genius of the originals.

Enjoyable ep and season!
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Old 11-09-2014, 11:55 AM   #4
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Liked the force reconnaissance unit hiding a weapon in a pram.

Did not like Osgood being pulverised - I hope her poking at Missy's weapon resulted in it not working properly.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:08 PM   #5
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Ugh. This is one of the worst seasons ever, IMO. And I'm counting Sylvester McCoy's seasons in there. The arc was horrible and the individual episodes were uninspired and just plain lacking in entertainment value. I've been watching Doctor Who for 40 years. This is a season I will never re-watch. There isn't a single episode I'm interested in revisiting.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:25 PM   #6
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Dark Water was excellent. This was (like so many others this season) - a jumbled mess. It had good parts. It had terribly predictable parts. And it had many parts that were pure Meh, all mixed together.

Other seasons had episodes and plot points scattered through them that on first viewing were sortof meh, but all came together at the end. This one, it tried, but kinda missed the mark. It made the references back to the rest of the season appear forced, instead of pivotal.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:28 PM   #7
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Missy just struck me as silly; she trivialized all the evil genius of the originals.
I agree, although she was a big step up from John Simm.

No offense to John Simm, but he was even sillier than she. Clearly, the Modern Regime simply doesn't GET the Master.
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Old 11-09-2014, 04:53 PM   #8
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Dark Water was excellent. This was (like so many others this season) - a jumbled mess. It had good parts. It had terribly predictable parts. And it had many parts that were pure Meh, all mixed together.
I pretty much agree with this.

I have enjoyed every episode, some more than others. I don't like the Doctor or the stories as much as I liked Matt Smith, there was more emotion in there somehow. This was one of the better finales since the show returned.

I really think people need to watch some old shows if they think this is the worst
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:20 PM   #9
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I pretty much agree with this.

I have enjoyed every episode, some more than others. I don't like the Doctor or the stories as much as I liked Matt Smith, there was more emotion in there somehow. This was one of the better finales since the show returned.

I really think people need to watch some old shows if they think this is the worst
I've watched the old shows, many many times over.

This is among the worst of the worst. It's definitely the worst of the new era, and I hated Matt Smith. I don't hate Capaldi but the scripts he's been given have been crap.
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:45 PM   #10
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I've watched the old shows, many many times over.

This is among the worst of the worst. It's definitely the worst of the new era, and I hated Matt Smith. I don't hate Capaldi but the scripts he's been given have been crap.
Moffat has been horrible over all as show runner. He's written some brilliant episodes, some of my favorites, but even the ones he's written since taking over as show runner have fallen flat.
Capaldi is excellent as the Doctor, but like you said, his material has been less than decent.
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:46 PM   #11
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A rather Meh finale. The master's plot made very little sense, and the writing was not the best. I do love Capaldi as the Doctor, and I hope they can come up with some worthy scripts and writing for him next season.

Clara was good in this, and I even liked Danny Pink. Though I don't think him and Clara have the same chemistry as Amy and Rory or Rose and Mickey.

I happened to catch the Caretaker earlier in the day and I loved how the Doctor could not assimilate Danny as a Maths teacher.

All in all, an uneven season for one of the best actors to play the Doctor.
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:59 PM   #12
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Did not like Osgood being pulverised - I hope her poking at Missy's weapon resulted in it not working properly.
One of the after-affects of getting a smartphone is that I discovered my cable provider allows me to stream some BBC America shows via their Android app. Most of the episodes with David Tennant have scrolled off the On-Demand list by now, except for The Day of the Doctor, which I have now re-watched many times.

Because of that, I was especially annoyed at what happened to Osgood in this episode.

It's annoying to be so delighted in the small things in an episode (like Osgood showing up in a bow tie instead of the scarf, or the salute to the Brigadier) and so disappointed in the big ones (e.g. the plot).
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Old 11-09-2014, 07:28 PM   #13
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... Missy's master plan ...
I see what you did there

This season was pretty meh.
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Old 11-09-2014, 07:31 PM   #14
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I'm really peeved that they fridged Osgood, doubly so since Moffat was nearly gleeful about it in the extra.
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:02 PM   #15
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One comment I read online suggested that Moffat was taking after Joss Whedon in the way that he killed off Osgood. That's far from a fair description. Joss has never been afraid to kill a character, so long as it serves the greater good of the story, or if it serves to motivate an action in or a development of another character or characters. Here, it was a meaningless death. It happened, and was barely acknowledged after. It had zero material impact on the events of the episode.

I agree with others that there were a few good moments. For example, I enjoyed watching Clara attempting to masquerade as the Doctor... it reminded me of her lightning quick-thinking that really made her an enjoyable character in "The Snowmen" and "Asylum of the Daleks." I also agree with others that overall, the episode was a jumbled mess with a conclusion that didn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

Was I the only one who thought that this iteration of the Cyberman costume was really cheesy looking, like classic Who cheesy? It didn't look metallic to me at all... it looked more like what it likely was, puffy extruded foam painted silver over some sort of silver lamé undershirt.
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:11 PM   #16
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One comment I read online suggested that Moffat was taking after Joss Whedon in the way that he killed off Osgood. That's far from a fair description. Joss has never been afraid to kill a character, so long as it serves the greater good of the story, or if it serves to motivate an action in or a development of another character or characters. Here, it was a meaningless death. It happened, and was barely acknowledged after. It had zero material impact on the events of the episode.
Well, that could just mean that Moffat is no Joss Whedon...

It's too bad...I was so excited when Moffat was announced as showrunner, in that he always seemed to be the best part of Davies' tenure. But as somebody suggested above, he seems to be much more effective as somebody else's writer. Neither Smith nor (especially) Capaldi has been as well-served as they deserved.
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:51 PM   #17
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I see what you did there

I almost added "no pun intended" there, almost.
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:00 PM   #18
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I think Capaldi does a fine job with what he's given. Too bad its not the best material.
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Old 11-09-2014, 09:01 PM   #19
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Well, that could just mean that Moffat is no Joss Whedon...

It's too bad...I was so excited when Moffat was announced as showrunner, in that he always seemed to be the best part of Davies' tenure. But as somebody suggested above, he seems to be much more effective as somebody else's writer. Neither Smith nor (especially) Capaldi has been as well-served as they deserved.
It won't be the first time nor the last that anyone has said so, but you can count me in as part of the camp that thinks Moffat is better as a writer, where he can be restrained by someone else.

Total agreement that Capaldi has been extremely ill-served this season, and I wouldn't argue too hard against Matt Smith, either.

I would class myself as a New Whovian -- I had a lot of exposure to classic who over the years (primarily Baker and Davison), enough that I knew about the Daleks and a lot of things before I started watching New Who. I knew enough to appreciate the impact when they brought back Sarah Jane ("School Reunion" is one of my favorite episodes of all time).

But an odd thing happened.

In a lot of respects, Christopher Eccleston was my 'first doctor'. I got used to him, and then when his season was over, David Tennant came along. And it took me a while to get used to him. People said how much better he was than Eccleston and I wasn't seeing it.

Eventually Tennant won me over. And in the hiatus between seasons, I went back and binge-watched some of the classic Who (mostly cherry-picking the episodes with Sarah Jane in them). I also watched The Sarah Jane adventures and enjoyed them.

Then came the 2nd 'reboot' with RTD stepping down and Moffat taking over.

And I found I liked Matt Smith right away. Had no trouble accepting him as The Doctor. Got on board with Amy and Rory as companions. But the storylines, not so much.

And now we have Capaldi taking over, and once again, I was quite ready to accept him as the new Doctor, could see that he was bringing in aspects of the Doctor from the Classic days. I was enjoying the fan stuff where longer-term fans pointed out he was doing this as an homage to Baker and this an homage to one of the other classic Doctors and so on.

But again, the storylines -- not so much.

(Somewhere along the way, I also watched all the episodes of The Doctor Revisited with their companion episodes, so I've had some exposure to everyone by now.)

It's not that I can't stand things with long setups. Quite the opposite. If I like the characters or actors in a show -- or more to the point, if I'm enjoying the particular performance of an actor, when he or she hits that sweet spot where the casting of that particular actor for that particular character seems perfect -- I can tolerate quite a lot. I was a fan of Babylon 5 -- I am no stranger to the long story arc.

But if you expect me to stick around that long, I want the payoff to be worth it.

So far, Moffat's story arcs haven't satisfied. I felt the same way about Matt Smith's seasons, and even more so with this one.

I wish Moffat would quit acting like a playground bully who happens to have gotten possession of everyone's favorite toy, and doesn't want to share. There's far too much of an air that he's the showrunner, and he can do what he wants neener neener neener about this year's finale.

Has anyone posted this yet? Do Sherlock and Doctor Who Really Have a “Bad Fan” Problem? (If so, apologies for the smeek.)

In other industries, you can't give a big f-u to your fan base and expect to stay in business. I wish someone would give Moffat a big clout on the head and tell him to just leave off messing with the fans, and tell the story already.

As I said in the 'annoy' thread, I hate it when I like characters and the author/showrunner sends them off on stupid storylines. Like LoadStar said in his post above, if you're a writer and you're going to kill a character, it has to serve a purpose.

I don't have that confidence with Moffat. His plots are all clockwork and no heart.
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Old 11-09-2014, 10:00 PM   #20
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People here seem to write as fact that Moffat is a problem, yet the majority of the Doctor Who sites and podcasts t think he's great. I certainly don't know what is suddenly wrong with the Smith era story arcs, I thought they were all fantastic.

Great to see Matt Smith in this one and fun how they put Jenna first in the credits after the opening scene.
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Old 11-09-2014, 10:53 PM   #21
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The only cool feature of this episode was replacing Capaldi's eyes with Clara's in the opening sequence!
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Old 11-09-2014, 10:57 PM   #22
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The only cool feature of this episode was replacing Capaldi's eyes with Clara's in the opening sequence!
They also listed her name first in the opening. Which would have been neat, if I hadn't 30ss'd over it the first time watching.
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Old 11-10-2014, 05:49 AM   #23
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I like Capaldi as The Doctor but this was an entirely forgettable season. Not bad, just eh. The only significant memorable events were The Doctor's regeneration and Clara's exit.

I HATE what they've done to The Master in the reboot. It's like they've tried to make him/her into their version of The Joker, but only sillier.

I feel bad for Danny Pink. He was mistreated by both Clara and The Doctor. He should have been a blues musician so he could write songs about how they both did him wrong.

I tried to wrap my head around where the metal came from in the Cyberman transformations but quickly gave up.

I have a crappy memory so I was like "Who the heck are these people?" when Osgood and the Brigadier's daughter showed up. It took a litlle while for the recollection to kick in. It wasn't cool that Osgood was killed so flippantly but she was exceeding dumb in her final scene with Missy.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:56 AM   #24
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Count me in with those who think Stevan Moffat has been promoted above his leval of competence.

I can grudgingly accept his has taken chracters and stories in directions I do not enjoy.

What I find difficult is that I have repeatedly had to download the subtitles and read after broadcast to understand what he intends the characters and stories to be.
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Old 11-10-2014, 10:15 AM   #25
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I can't remember but were characters able to negotiate with Cybermen in past episodes? I didn't see where Clara should have been able to delay her death as long as she did. I though they had always been killing machines before. Maybe I am misremembering?
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Old 11-10-2014, 11:07 AM   #26
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I can't remember but were characters able to negotiate with Cybermen in past episodes? I didn't see where Clara should have been able to delay her death as long as she did. I though they had always been killing machines before. Maybe I am misremembering?
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:12 PM   #27
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There seems to be a bit of a continuity problem here too. If Danny Pink is dead, how could there ever be an Orson Pink whose family had been involved in time travel?
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:15 PM   #28
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I was thinking the same thing! Did Danny ever mention if he had a brother? Orson Pink could be his nephew instead of his son.
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:28 PM   #29
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..
So far, Moffat's story arcs haven't satisfied. I felt the same way about Matt Smith's seasons, and even more so with this one.

I wish Moffat would quit acting like a playground bully who happens to have gotten possession of everyone's favorite toy, and doesn't want to share. There's far too much of an air that he's the showrunner, and he can do what he wants neener neener neener about this year's finale.

Has anyone posted this yet? Do Sherlock and Doctor Who Really Have a “Bad Fan” Problem? (If so, apologies for the smeek.)
...
One of the problems I have with Moffat's story arcs is that he does fully conclude/explain them at the end of the season.

And having seen interviews not directly connected with Doctor Who episodes I have long thought Moffat is a bully made worst by becoming showrunner.

The article touches on what I feel about the death of Osgood - it was more about a nasty streak in Moffat than good story telling.
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:41 PM   #30
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There seems to be a bit of a continuity problem here too. If Danny Pink is dead, how could there ever be an Orson Pink whose family had been involved in time travel?
There's some fan hypothesis that Clara is pregnant. One of the post-its on the bookcase in the last episode was "3 months," and some people are guessing that is how far along she is. Seems a bit unlikely to me but you never know.
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