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Old 09-07-2013, 04:13 PM   #1
geekmedic
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Roamio and 4 Minis

I currently have 5 TV's showing live TV on different channels and everything is running smoothly. No jittery video or audio dropouts. Live TV on the Roamio Pro, 3 Minis via MoCA, and 1 Mini via ethernet.

TiVo definitely did a great job implementing a whole home DVR solution!
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:40 PM   #2
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That is pretty awesome!
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:51 AM   #3
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I currently have 5 TV's showing live TV on different channels and everything is running smoothly. No jittery video or audio dropouts. Live TV on the Roamio Pro, 3 Minis via MoCA, and 1 Mini via ethernet.

TiVo definitely did a great job implementing a whole home DVR solution!
I setting up a single Roamio + and 5 Minis, testing the system out in my home, takes about 30 hours before the Roamio will connect to the Minis but they are all working now, have to install in my friend home now, we are replacing 5 TiVos (that he will sell) and removing 5 Cable cards that cost him about $8.00/month each. The system cost him about $1985, the five TiVo should net him on E-Bay about $1400, so he will be even in a year or so.
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Old 09-08-2013, 01:34 PM   #4
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TiVo definitely did a great job implementing a whole home DVR solution!
I agree. It's definitely convenient having a box with six tuners that supports DTA. Not only did the addition of a Roamio and two Minis allow me to get rid of four cablecards, but it finally gave me a setup that I am completely happy with. The Roamio records the bulk of the stuff that my wife and I watch, and it also provides the tuners for the Minis in the guest bedroom and workout room. My three Premieres each have dedicated uses. One XL is for the kids, the other XL is used strictly for movies, and the XL4 is my personal box that I use to record Sci-Fi, horror, and all the the other stuff my wife can't stand.
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:18 PM   #5
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Hmmm.... they must have bumped the 3 stream limit. I wonder what the max is now?
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:39 PM   #6
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Hmmm.... they must have bumped the 3 stream limit. I wonder what the max is now?
TiVo told me 4 streams or that you can run 4 Minis at the same time, but connect 6 Minis to one system, I am setting up a 5 Mini system to a Roamio + at a friend home in the next few weeks, I have the 5 Minis and the Roamio plus at my home and all five (one at a time) are working with the Roamio + I will be testing 4 Minis working at the same time in a day or so at my home first.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:51 PM   #7
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Alternative Option

I am on the fence with this...

Currently, I have just a premiere with monthly subscription. Thinking of switching to Roamio Plus with lifetime subscription. I only have one tv, but I plan to have another in the bedroom soon.

However, I don't like the idea that the Tivo Mini is SO expensive compared to a Roku. (I don't have a roku yet, so if there is something cheaper than a Tivo Mini and it is a better option than a roku, let me know).

I will have a PC with pyTivo and kmttg -- this way I can offload shows from Tivo to make room for more programs.

So.. I am asking for the pros and cons for the following two setups:

Roamio Plus with a mini -- I believe that I have to transfer from PC to Roamio, then play from Mini.

Roamio Plus with Roku with the PC having PlayOn with the Roku PlayOn channel. Or Plex with a Roku Plex channel.

Any opinions are appreciated. Also, I am hard-of-hearing and closed-captions/subtitles are a must when watching shows.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:52 PM   #8
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I am on the fence with this...

Currently, I have just a premiere with monthly subscription. Thinking of switching to Roamio Plus with lifetime subscription. I only have one tv, but I plan to have another in the bedroom soon.

However, I don't like the idea that the Tivo Mini is SO expensive compared to a Roku. (I don't have a roku yet, so if there is something cheaper than a Tivo Mini and it is a better option than a roku, let me know).

I will have a PC with pyTivo and kmttg -- this way I can offload shows from Tivo to make room for more programs.

So.. I am asking for the pros and cons for the following two setups:

Roamio Plus with a mini -- I believe that I have to transfer from PC to Roamio, then play from Mini.

Roamio Plus with Roku with the PC having PlayOn with the Roku PlayOn channel. Or Plex with a Roku Plex channel.

Any opinions are appreciated. Also, I am hard-of-hearing and closed-captions/subtitles are a must when watching shows.
You might not have realized this, but you basically stuffed this into a thread about something else entirely.

You would be better served by looking at the Mini forum as there is already a topic under discussion about the cost/value of lifetime service of the Mini... or create a brand new topic there, in the appropriate forum, with your question.

The bottom line is that the Mini allows you to watch not only your recorded shows, but you can watch live TV as well. Roku cannot do this. Roku can either playback highly compressed files that you've painstakingly put into a network accessible location, or it can use its various streaming services like Netflix to offer up Video On Demand.

Whether the cost of a Mini is "worth it" is a completely subjective question. Some people spend ungodly number of hours downloading things with Bit-torrent, and using tools and scripts to put those shows onto network accessible storage, so that they can save a few bucks and watch them on a Roku.

For me personally, having what is essentially a 2nd full TiVo, with access to everything on the primary TiVo "hub" is well well WELL worth the $150 cost of a lifetime fee. How much is convenience worth to me? $230 or so dollars apparently.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:42 PM   #9
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I setting up a single Roamio + and 5 Minis, testing the system out in my home, takes about 30 hours before the Roamio will connect to the Minis but they are all working now, have to install in my friend home now, we are replacing 5 TiVos (that he will sell) and removing 5 Cable cards that cost him about $8.00/month each. The system cost him about $1985, the five TiVo should net him on E-Bay about $1400, so he will be even in a year or so.
Any update on this? i currently have a Windows Media Center 7 system running and use 5 extenders to distribute through the house. Wife is getting sick of the random issues that seem to have plagued us fir the past 3 years or so. long story short, I'm thinking a Roamio and a few Minis might be a good replacement. Entire house is wired Cat6, so speed shouldn't be an issue. I'm more concerned about running possibly 6 streams (or more concurrently) without slowdown much lime I can with my WMC setup. Is this possible? My current setup doesn't break a sweat at all, but it has loads more resources.

Also, has anyone gone from a cablecard WMC with extenders to Roamio with Minis? Pros/Cons?

Any feedback would be appreciated.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:05 AM   #10
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Should be able to run up to 8 simultaneous streams off a single Roamio.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #11
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Should be able to run up to 8 simultaneous streams off a single Roamio.
Wow... so I could have 1 person watching a liveTV stream on the Roamio, 5 other Mini clients watching "live" streams and then finally, 2 others watching recorded TV? And/or some combination of recording as well? I wonder how the transcoding/streaming to iPad/iPhone might affect this.

Is there an official FAQ regarding number of clients anywhere that I missed? I looked on the Tivo website as well as on this site and can't find anything. Everything that I read over the past day or so said that it could only handle 3 Mini clients at a time.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:41 AM   #12
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Wow... so I could have 1 person watching a liveTV stream on the Roamio, 5 other Mini clients watching "live" streams and then finally, 2 others watching recorded TV? And/or some combination of recording as well? I wonder how the transcoding/streaming to iPad/iPhone might affect this.

Is there an official FAQ regarding number of clients anywhere that I missed? I looked on the Tivo website as well as on this site and can't find anything. Everything that I read over the past day or so said that it could only handle 3 Mini clients at a time.
The maximum number of Mini clients has been reported as 9 here and other places. But according the FAQ link on this page, the number is 8 Mini clients which can be supported by one Tivo DVR:
"How many Mini boxes can be supported on one TiVo DVR?
Up to eight TiVo Minis can be supported by one TiVo network containing either TiVo Roamio or Premiere DVRs."
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:55 PM   #13
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I recall that there was some kind of limit of 12 total devices linked to a Tivo, including mobile devices. I have a Roamio, 1 Mini and 6 iOS devices in my family. Yet my Stream seems to be reporting 9 devices. I wonder if I can remove some devices. They may have 2 older model iphones on there that I've since sold.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:33 PM   #14
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A TiVo account is limited to 10 total devices. iOS devices do not count, but TiVos, Minis and standalone Streams do. I'm not sure about the Stream built into the Roamio. It is a separate device on the network, but I don't see it listed on my account. However it could be registered on the backend. That could be why they say they only support 8 Minis because a Roamio Plus/Pro is actually taking up 2 of the 10 slots.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:41 PM   #15
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A TiVo account is limited to 10 total devices. iOS devices do not count, but TiVos, Minis and standalone Streams do. I'm not sure about the Stream built into the Roamio. It is a separate device on the network, but I don't see it listed on my account. However it could be registered on the backend. That could be why they say they only support 8 Minis because a Roamio Plus/Pro is actually taking up 2 of the 10 slots.
On the Tivo app in the stream settings it does say 8 of 12 in the mobile devices section. This implies to me that there's a 12 streaming device limit. The weird thing is that I don't have 8 streaming devices but only 6 at the most.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #16
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I'm really only concerned about it from a performance point of view. If it supports 8 devices, but starts stuttering and affecting recordings and/or liveTV performance in other rooms, then it's not really worth it.

I would love to free my PC (via WMC) from the burden of never rebooting to avoid dropping scheduled recordings though, but want to ensure that it's the same or better TV viewing experience.

Also, as I'm new to the Roamio lineup (but had a TivoHD and DirecTivos in the past)... if I purchase a Tivo Roamio Plus and Mini... could I purchase lifetime for the Mini immediately and then use the PLSR discount code to purchase the $400 MSD lifetime for the Roamio immediately afterwards? As I've read that the code will only work for current customers. Apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum to post this question on...
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:12 PM   #17
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On the Tivo app in the stream settings it does say 8 of 12 in the mobile devices section. This implies to me that there's a 12 streaming device limit. The weird thing is that I don't have 8 streaming devices but only 6 at the most.
You mean on the full system information screen? That's something different. If you reboot the Stream/TiVo that will reset to 0.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:36 PM   #18
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I'm really only concerned about it from a performance point of view. If it supports 8 devices, but starts stuttering and affecting recordings and/or liveTV performance in other rooms, then it's not really worth it.

I would love to free my PC (via WMC) from the burden of never rebooting to avoid dropping scheduled recordings though, but want to ensure that it's the same or better TV viewing experience.

Also, as I'm new to the Roamio lineup (but had a TivoHD and DirecTivos in the past)... if I purchase a Tivo Roamio Plus and Mini... could I purchase lifetime for the Mini immediately and then use the PLSR discount code to purchase the $400 MSD lifetime for the Roamio immediately afterwards? As I've read that the code will only work for current customers. Apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum to post this question on...
Even the Premiere can easily handle 8 concurrent HD streams. The Roamio has zero issues with 8 concurrent HD streams. It can handle much more.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:43 PM   #19
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Even the Premiere can easily handle 8 concurrent HD streams. The Roamio has zero issues with 8 concurrent HD streams. It can handle much more.
Yeah the network would be the limiting factor there. With gigabit you'd be fine, but with 10/100 or MoCa you'd probably start seeing issues with 4 streams. In fact my network is MoCa and I see problems with just 3. The other night my wife was watching the Mini while I simultaneously transferred a program from my upstairs Premiere and streamed a show from that same Premiere and I was seeing a bit of stuttering in the playback and the transfer ended up failing. I'm thinking about trying to pull some Cat6 so I can hardwire the whole network for gigabit.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:59 PM   #20
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...Also, as I'm new to the Roamio lineup (but had a TivoHD and DirecTivos in the past)... if I purchase a Tivo Roamio Plus and Mini... could I purchase lifetime for the Mini immediately and then use the PLSR discount code to purchase the $400 MSD lifetime for the Roamio immediately afterwards? As I've read that the code will only work for current customers. Apologies in advance if this is the wrong forum to post this question on...
The PLSR code should be valid for new customers as well. I've not read anything different. YMMV.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:01 PM   #21
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...I'm thinking about trying to pull some Cat6 so I can hardwire the whole network for gigabit.
+1. You won't regret it.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:08 AM   #22
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I currently have 5 TV's showing live TV on different channels and everything is running smoothly. No jittery video or audio dropouts. Live TV on the Roamio Pro, 3 Minis via MoCA, and 1 Mini via ethernet.

TiVo definitely did a great job implementing a whole home DVR solution!
I have a friend that I set up with a Roamio+ and 5 Minis, works great as you can watch 5 different shows in each room on each Mini and another on the Roamio itself, my friend loves this MoCA setup and is saving 5 cable cards at about $40/month. The total system had a cost of about $2,050, and the six TiVos that were sold on E-Bay got him back $1,750, great deal.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:28 PM   #23
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Does the streamer that is built-in to the Roamio Plus/Pro work on copy protected content? There are very few shows that actually use the copy flag that I've noticed, but who knows how long Comcast in my area will leave it that way. Also, with the streaming, could I theoretically record an NFL game on Sunday and watch the recording-in-progress game on the iPad (within the house Wifi)? And would I have full DVR controls?

I was hoping to have my whole system ordered by now, but the boss (aka wife) is having me holdup after hearing of all the additional fees. So, I'm trying to justify the new system versus our "free" Windows Media Center w/ extenders setup.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:05 PM   #24
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For in home streaming you can stream anything to an iPad regardless of copy protection. Out of home streaming however is limited and can not stream shows which are protected.

Yes you can stream a show to an iPad independent of what's playing on the main TV. So if your wife is watching TV in the main room you can watch something else on your iPad, including an NFL game.

You should also look at the Mini. It's a way to stream shows to another TV in the house, even live TV. It's also completely independent so you can watch something different in one room then what's being watched in the main room.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:39 AM   #25
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Wow... so I could have 1 person watching a liveTV stream on the Roamio, 5 other Mini clients watching "live" streams and then finally, 2 others watching recorded TV? And/or some combination of recording as well? I wonder how the transcoding/streaming to iPad/iPhone might affect this.

Is there an official FAQ regarding number of clients anywhere that I missed? I looked on the Tivo website as well as on this site and can't find anything. Everything that I read over the past day or so said that it could only handle 3 Mini clients at a time.
I am a past multi-Tivo customer, but not since DirecTV divorced from Tivo years ago. Now, I'm looking at getting Xfinity and going with Roamio + Minis. So I, too, was wondering how many clients (Minis or iPads) I can have.

One limitation that isn't mentioned here, but I've inferred from other threads is this:

Each Mini that is in use grabs a tuner on the Roamio, even if you're watching recorded content. So, if my understanding is correct, then if you have a 6-tuner Roamio (i.e. Pro or Plus), you could be watching something on the Roamio (doesn't matter whether it's Live or Recorded), and you could be watching stuff on 5 Minis (again, doesn't matter whether it's Live or Recorded), and then you could watch recorded stuff on iPads, all at the same time. But, in that scenario, you could not watch anything on a 6th Mini - not even a Recorded program or On Demand, and you could not watch any Live TV on an iPad.

To me this seems like the biggest reason (for me, anyway) to buy a 6-tuner Roamio versus a 4-tuner. OTOH, if Tivo would enhance the Mini to allow "Recorded Only" watching, where it didn't grab a tuner, then I would probably be fine with a 4-tuner Roamio. I mean, seriously, how many DVR owners watch that much Live TV? It somewhat defeats the purpose (not entirely, obviously). So, not being able to watch Recorded content on a Mini, without tying up a tuner, is kind of dumb, I think. Even if the Mini releases the tuner as soon as you start watching Recorded content, that doesn't really help. All 4 tuners could easily be busy (say, recording 3 shows and watching Live TV on a 4th channel on the Roamio itself). In that scenario, I can't see why I should then be completely blocked from starting to use my Mini, if I just want to watch a recorded show. Especially, if I could watch a recorded show on an iPad in the same scenario.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:42 AM   #26
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Or let me put it another way. Imagine all your tuners are in use recording programs. If you're at the Roamio itself, you could still watch a recorded program. Why shouldn't you be able to do the same from a Mini?
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:07 AM   #27
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The biggest reason to buy a 6-tuner over 4-tuner Roamio if you're talking about Minis and iPads is that the 6-tuner model has integrated stream functions and integrated MoCA to work with the Minis.

I was not aware of the Mini using a tuner slot when playing back pre-recorded content, that is not my impression.

If you're installing multiple Minis (four or what not) into a large home with lots of TV viewers then the current way things work might not be 100% ideal as there are situations in which even suggestions will over-ride the Mini getting access to a tuner.

I'm hoping that TiVo improves some of this in the coming year. Setting up support for device profiles and user accounts would be a big one, along with giving certain Minis the ability to have higher priority than TiVo suggestions.

However, bottom line, if you have a household with numerous voracious consumers of TiVo content then even one six tuner model might not be enough, with Minis, to satisfy your users... at that point you are probably better off with multiple TiVo Roamios.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:16 AM   #28
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I read the info about the Mini always grabbing a tuner in another thread here, but I'd have to go looking to find the link. That thread did even have some discussion of a desire for a "Recorded Only" mode, so you could watch while all tuners were otherwise occupied, and the folks in the thread all seemed to agree that that's how it works (i.e. the Mini grabs a tuner, no matter what).

As for the rest, I was considering a Roamio ($200) plus Stream ($130), instead of a Roamio Plus ($400). It would be cheaper and let me view OTA. And, like I said, if Minis could watch Recorded content even when all tuners are in use, I think 4 tuners would be plenty. It's just 2 of us in the house. But, we each have tablets, and we may end up with 5 or 6 TVs in the house (Master bedroom, main floor/TV room, basement, guest bedroom, her office, and/or my office). If the main unit is recording 2 programs, it would be nice for us to be able to have a guest over and still be able to let the guest watch whatever they want in their room while we're each watching recorded content in other rooms (e.g. late night viewing).

Oh, and the new house we're looking at has Ethernet to every jack plate that has coax, so no need for MoCA.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:27 AM   #29
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I read the info about the Mini always grabbing a tuner in another thread here, but I'd have to go looking to find the link. That thread did even have some discussion of a desire for a "Recorded Only" mode, so you could watch while all tuners were otherwise occupied, and the folks in the thread all seemed to agree that that's how it works (i.e. the Mini grabs a tuner, no matter what).
That's not true, a Mini only grabs a tuner if you go to live tv. I just tested that to verify as I would really annoy me if it grabbed a tuner from my 4 tuner Roamio just to play a recording, but when it's playing the recording it still shows all 4 tuners avail.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:37 AM   #30
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So, I'm guessing that a Roamio plus (eth connected) and 3 mini's (moca connected) should not present any issues with quality or capacity of streaming)?

If my math is correct, I can watch 'live' tv on the 4 tv's, and still record two shows all at once?
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