TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-27-2014, 06:28 PM   #1
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,353
First Aereo, now Dish Hopper

In Aereo’s wake, Fox targets Dish’s TV streaming service
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 07:34 PM   #2
telemark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 590
I've long suspected the cable companies are being charged different rates for CC flags, encryption, and offering placeshifting / timeshifting.

This may be the closest confirmation we'll get there's something in the contractual language from content providers.

Dish is an odd position since the hardware comes with the service. Maybe if they were selling equipment like Tivo or Slingbox, they might have been more in the clear.

Last edited by telemark : 06-27-2014 at 09:27 PM.
telemark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 08:12 PM   #3
terpfan1980
It's Just TV
 
terpfan1980's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Xbox Live: terpfan1980
Posts: 17,108
TC CLUB MEMBER
I'm praying that eventually the broadcasters bite the wrong hands and stir up enough anger to get Congress involved in the wrong way. { Not trying to turn this political, but will say.... } While the broadcasters have deep pockets and good lobbyists working for them, most voters are not the 1% that probably make up those groups. If it even starts to appear that voters are riled up over access to TV programming those congress critters may turn back around and make things very, very interesting for the broadcasters.
__________________
Home to a happy TiVo Roamio, a TiVo mini, and a couple of Premieres
Cancer truly sucks :(
--
Xbox Live gamertag/PSN id: terpfan1980
terpfan1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 08:58 PM   #4
Chris Gerhard
Registered User
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: AR
Posts: 4,910
I am not an attorney but I don't see how the Aereo loss makes what Dish is doing copyright infringement. Dish is paying for the content provided to its customers, Aereo wasn't and was a piracy business trying to make itself look like something else with diversion tactics. I haven't seen anything that makes me believe individuals can't view time shifted content on portable devices, that shouldn't be copyright infringement. DVRs are clearly fair use, established with the famous Betamax case.

If Dish is doing something wrong, it sure wasn't addressed in the Aereo case. I am perfectly happy with my rights to record and watch at my convenience and have no gripe with the broadcasters at all, I think rights owners should have protection of the law and what Aereo was doing was wrong.
__________________
Home Theater - OTA TiVoHD/1.16TB/NSZ-GS8 GTV
MBR - OTA TiVoHD/660GB/NSZ-GT1 GTV
Den - OTA TiVo Premiere/2TB/NSZ-GT1 GTV
Chris Gerhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 09:10 PM   #5
mattack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: sunnyvale
Posts: 16,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
I am perfectly happy with my rights to record and watch at my convenience
Well, technically, you are within your rights to time shift. The Sony V. Universal case specifically did not include 'recording for keeps' (they called it librarying). I'm not saying that you are necessarily doing that (I sometimes do, but last year ended up killing a drive of mine that had a lot of stuff on it.. heh).

IANAL, but I would agree that "streaming to yourself" seems different than Aereo streaming to you, but I can also see how both could be called copyright infringement since there obviously ARE multiple copies being made, and it is not exactly time shifting, which is the only thing that was *specifically* ruled to be legal.

BTW, I think we're mostly on the same side of the issue.
mattack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 11:23 PM   #6
CoxInPHX
COX Communications
 
CoxInPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
I've long suspected the cable companies are being charged different rates for CC flags, encryption, and offering placeshifting / timeshifting.

This may be the closest confirmation we'll get there's something in the contractual language from content providers.
Cox Social Media Reps do claim that the CCI Byte of Copy Once is dictated by their content provider contracts. I always called BS on this, because not all Cox markets use it, but perhaps it may be the case.

http://forums.cox.com/forum_home/tv_.../4/t/3846.aspx
"The copy protections standards we apply are consistent with the agreements Cox has with various programmers to carry their cable content."

__________________
Roamio Pro, XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, & Mini, 20.4.2, w/ Cisco SDV TA, FW F.1601, Cisco CC FW PKEY1.5.3_F.p.1301

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

CoxInPHX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 04:07 AM   #7
Chris Gerhard
Registered User
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: AR
Posts: 4,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
Well, technically, you are within your rights to time shift. The Sony V. Universal case specifically did not include 'recording for keeps' (they called it librarying). I'm not saying that you are necessarily doing that (I sometimes do, but last year ended up killing a drive of mine that had a lot of stuff on it.. heh).

IANAL, but I would agree that "streaming to yourself" seems different than Aereo streaming to you, but I can also see how both could be called copyright infringement since there obviously ARE multiple copies being made, and it is not exactly time shifting, which is the only thing that was *specifically* ruled to be legal.

BTW, I think we're mostly on the same side of the issue.
I agree this hasn't been addressed by any court ruling, at least none I have seen. I think Fox is just bluffing here, sure Fox would like to prevent this, but I think what Dish is providing and what its customers are doing will be found non-infringing if the courts decide the issue. What I can't see is how the Aereo case has anything whatsoever to do with settling the issue, except indicating the courts might take it on.

I don't watch anything on a smart phone or tablet so this issue is not of much importance to me directly. I have used TiVo Desktop to transfer recordings to a laptop but I can't recall ever having watched anything on a laptop that was recorded using a DVR. That is at least something I think I might want to do and believe it is non-infringing, so does TiVo, a conservative interpretor of individual rights in these matters in my opinion. Dish is more aggressive and likely to bring about litigation when it happens.

As far as recording to keep forever, I know that right hasn't been granted and I don't think it will be granted but keeping long enough to watch at my convenience is my interpretation of the famous Betamax case. I have recordings I haven't watched yet after years and I have had to expand my DVR storage to be able to hold on to it until I can get to it. If my interpretation is wrong, oh well, I tend to interpret gray areas to my advantage.
__________________
Home Theater - OTA TiVoHD/1.16TB/NSZ-GS8 GTV
MBR - OTA TiVoHD/660GB/NSZ-GT1 GTV
Den - OTA TiVo Premiere/2TB/NSZ-GT1 GTV
Chris Gerhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 04:45 AM   #8
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
I agree this hasn't been addressed by any court ruling, at least none I have seen. I think Fox is just bluffing here, sure Fox would like to prevent this, but I think what Dish is providing and what its customers are doing will be found non-infringing if the courts decide the issue. What I can't see is how the Aereo case has anything whatsoever to do with settling the issue, except indicating the courts might take it on.

I don't watch anything on a smart phone or tablet so this issue is not of much importance to me directly. I have used TiVo Desktop to transfer recordings to a laptop but I can't recall ever having watched anything on a laptop that was recorded using a DVR. That is at least something I think I might want to do and believe it is non-infringing, so does TiVo, a conservative interpretor of individual rights in these matters in my opinion. Dish is more aggressive and likely to bring about litigation when it happens.

As far as recording to keep forever, I know that right hasn't been granted and I don't think it will be granted but keeping long enough to watch at my convenience is my interpretation of the famous Betamax case. I have recordings I haven't watched yet after years and I have had to expand my DVR storage to be able to hold on to it until I can get to it. If my interpretation is wrong, oh well, I tend to interpret gray areas to my advantage.

I'm sure hard drive failure, lack of infinite monetary resources, and no interest on the part of your heirs in keeping the stuff when they're settling your estate and grumbling about what a pack rat you were will take care of the "keep forever" part.


__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 05:06 AM   #9
Chris Gerhard
Registered User
 
Chris Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: AR
Posts: 4,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
I'm sure hard drive failure, lack of infinite monetary resources, and no interest on the part of your heirs in keeping the stuff when they're settling your estate and grumbling about what a pack rat you were will take care of the "keep forever" part.

Good grief, I have a house full of things my children don't want, including TiVos, CDs, DVDs, Blu-ray discs, hard drives, etc. I have been selling stuff with that in mind for years now and if I live to 100, another 38 years, they might not be bothered with it at the rate my things are selling. This stuff is hard to sell these days, about a dozen items are pushed out the door each month. I expect the TiVos will break before I die and won't be an issue except for the landfills.

The head of the household claims I am not selling enough stuff, quickly enough, and that I am still bringing more in the house than is leaving. I can't understand why she thinks that, the things I ship out I lay on the table, packaged and ready to go so she can see and the stuff coming in, I sneak in so she can't see it.
__________________
Home Theater - OTA TiVoHD/1.16TB/NSZ-GS8 GTV
MBR - OTA TiVoHD/660GB/NSZ-GT1 GTV
Den - OTA TiVo Premiere/2TB/NSZ-GT1 GTV
Chris Gerhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2014, 10:07 PM   #10
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,492
These are not the same thing and I really hope the courts realize that. The hopper, Slingbox and TiVo Stream are simple hardware solutions that allow users to views time shifted content outside of their homes on their personal mobile devices. The "broadcast flag" was struck down years ago and that ruling basically made it so broadcast channels, that use public airwaves, are required to be marked as "copy freely". If they're worried about their cable offerings then they are free to negotiate deals with the providers that force them to mark their content "copy once", in which case these devices will not work. If Dish has such a contract and is breaking it then fox should sue them in civil cort for breach of contract. They should not be trying to get the technology as a whole deemed illegal.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2014, 10:16 PM   #11
magnus
Tivo User
 
magnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,466
Yep, this isn't the same. Fox is reaching.
magnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 04:20 AM   #12
tenthplanet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post
Good grief, I have a house full of things my children don't want, including TiVos, CDs, DVDs, Blu-ray discs, hard drives, etc. I have been selling stuff with that in mind for years now and if I live to 100, another 38 years, they might not be bothered with it at the rate my things are selling. This stuff is hard to sell these days, about a dozen items are pushed out the door each month. I expect the TiVos will break before I die and won't be an issue except for the landfills.

The head of the household claims I am not selling enough stuff, quickly enough, and that I am still bringing more in the house than is leaving. I can't understand why she thinks that, the things I ship out I lay on the table, packaged and ready to go so she can see and the stuff coming in, I sneak in so she can't see it.
The more streaming headaches/internet failure/cloud failure your kids encounter may make them become a little more interested in some of that physical media.
__________________
"It's tough thinking of something clever to write down here, I don't know how Chuck Lorre does it..."
tenthplanet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVo® is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |