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Old 10-15-2014, 11:34 PM   #1
kws
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Any advice on how to record something from the buffer?

Sorry if I missed this in my searching.
I’ve had a TiVo Roamio Pro for about a mouth now and generally I like it but there are several issues that I have had that at times can be quite frustrating. Question: Should you be able to record something you are watching that is in the buffer if the next show has started even by one second or minute? Say for instance what you are watching occurred at 7:50pm and live TV is just one minute past 8 pm?
Btw this does not involve scheduled recordings or any of the other methods to record in advance. I’m only referring to times you simple sit down to watch live TV on one of the 6 tuners that each has a 30 minute buffer where you are able to rewind, fast forward, pause and play with no problems, I am simply not able to find a way to save what I am watching.
Is this normal or is my unit defective or is there something I can do to be able to record what I am watching at any time?
By the way I only have about 10% of the drive used. It does work fine if it is after the start of a show and that is the portion I am watching. (example if the show started at 8pm and I’m watching live or even the buffer at 8:10) In that case I press record, and click “Record this episode” and the record light comes on and that is it, it is recording. But if I am watching and wanting to save something I see in the portion before the start of that same show, I do not get the option, “Record this episode” I only get various other options none of which I want. If for some reason it cannot record what I want to record, it does not tell me that I cannot record it, it only gives me options like “Explore this show” say what? I just want to record. I did after all press the red button labels “Rec”.
Again I know I can schedule recordings, have suggestions or other various prerecorded options which I do use, but again this is for times you are switching around live TV on the tuners you have set with buffers and have done the only thing you can do to be able to skip commercials on live TV, by backing up into the buffer so you have the ability to fast forward.
I did do quite a bit of searching through forums but only found responses like, "that is the way TiVos have always been. And then others reply well that might be a fact but it is not an explanation. And those that I found were only for older units.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, besides telling me I should have set recordings ahead of time. LOL
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Old 10-16-2014, 05:14 AM   #2
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Question: Should you be able to record something you are watching that is in the buffer if the next show has started even by one second or minute? Say for instance what you are watching occurred at 7:50pm and live TV is just one minute past 8 pm?
I was going to reply with a No, because I have never been able in the past to do so and others have also said no, I have wished also that there was a way. So, I then decided to try something different, see below.

The correct answer is Yes, You can record the buffer even if the next show time slot has started, by using the "Set a Manual Recording"

While on the channel that has the buffer you want to record:
Go to,
Manage Recordings and Downloads > Set a Manual Recording
Then set the time to include the buffer and any additional time you wish to add. I will do more testing, on the amount of time, You should be able to capture the last 40 minutes, maybe more.

EDIT: Looks like 30 minutes back, is the max I can record.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:13 PM   #3
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Just press Record while in that buffer.
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Old 10-16-2014, 04:39 PM   #4
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Just press Record while in that buffer.
Have you tested that under the circumstances the OP describes. I'm pretty sure that if the new show has started it starts recording that and you lose the previous show from the buffer.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:55 PM   #5
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Sorry in advance for the long post but I thought I should relay the new info I have for those who might be interested.
Thanks for the replies and CoxInPHX thanks for the possible work-around. A couple of things, I did call TiVo and got some info and also I was doing more searching and found this old thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=429331 from 2009 dealing with the same issue of not being able to record what you are watching. Obviously since it’s from 2009 it is referring to older units but one of the suggestions to get around problem seems to be the same of setting a manual recording in the past to be able to record what you are presently watching. I guess I was hoping that there was a quick way like hitting pause or record when I have to answer the phone, run out etc.
But if this is true that pressing the record button does not allow you to record what you are watching many times during any given hour, even if you have tons of disk space, it is pretty interesting that this is totally acceptable to most people.
One person in that old thread said he solved the issue by hooking up his old VCR so he could simply hit “Record” when he wanted to record. Again if this is all true, it would seem pretty ironic to have terabytes of space sitting there and you only want to save what you are watching on the TiVo, yet the rec button which at times will allow you to record, at other times not allow you to do that?

When I called TiVo and first said that pressing my record button at certain times does not allow me to record what I was watching, he said, do you get the dialogue that says “ Record this episode”? I said sometimes yes and sometimes no. He said well there must be some problem. Then I qualified the info by saying well it always happens if I have paused live TV and the next show has started. To make a long story short, he had no idea why it would be doing that and put me on hold about 3 or 4 times and finally came back and said it is designed that way due to copyright laws. Say what? He said the buffer is not on the hard drive but in cash and if live TV goes to the next show, they can allow us to view the buffer but not write it to disk.
Keep in mind I have no idea if any of this is true, I’m only relaying what he told me. But if it is true, all of the posts I have read where people wanted more buffer space, like at least an hour on each tuner so they could go back to the beginning of an hour show, and said they have tons of dick space and it would only add 3 hours to the disk, I guess this would also explain why they wouldn’t ever increase it beyond 30 minutes if it is in ram and not the disk?
I asked him how in the world it would make sense that it is perfectly legal to record/save what you are watching in the buffer if you hit record at 59 minutes past the hour but if you go to 1 minute past the hour it would not be legal to save it? He said well looking at it that way I guess it doesn’t make sense but that is what we have to do.
I brought up the point that if this is true, where does it say anything about that? Certainly if I’m in a hurry and I simply want to save something and hit record, and then instead of just confirming recording, I get all kinds of options like “Explore this show”. Explore this show? No I just want to record! If it is true that this was intentional to not allow us to record, why not simply have the dialogue say that instead of endless options except for the one I wanted which was record. I quoted the manual which says this. ““Up to 30 minutes of the current channel’s broadcast is always being saved, even when you’re not recording. When you change channels, the TiVo Roamio clears the saved portion on the tuner you’re watching and starts saving again on the new channel. So, if the saved portion is important to you, either record the program (can’t do if the live portion is in new show) or don’t change the channel."
I said the saved portioned was important to me, and I did not change the channel and I tried to record and it did not allow me to do what it recommended.
I realize that if this is true, that it is all to do with copyright laws, why not just come out and be clear about it, and say that what has always been so basic as a red button labeled “Rec” will at times not allow you to do that.

Sorry if this comes across as a rant, but I suppose being in product design and marketing myself in other fields, I have less patience than most for being intentionally mislead especially over something so basic and universally accepted as a red button labeled “Rec”.
Btw the TiVo guy was very nice on the phone and I believe was honestly as perplexed as I was during his research while I was on the phone with him. He said he would check into whether or not they actually have it written down anywhere but he had obviously never even seen anything on that himself.
I guess maybe I’ll hook one of my old DVRs to the output of the Roamio to be able to easily record something on the fly.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:13 PM   #6
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I know you said "duh" to it, but: You have six tuners! You have a 3tb drive with 10% in use! Live has too small a buffer... take a phone call, wander off to do something, etc... oops, just ran out of buffer. If you have something in the buffer and a scheduled show on another channel starts up on that tuner... oops. Add in the problem you described, theres a lot of downsides. I hate running out of buffer and hitting commercials! Live tv is restricting enough that I always automatically just hit record the once in a while (once a month... maybe) something catches my eye on live tv between recordings... and since Im not buried in the buffer it just records whatever its got of the current program.

What is the upside to live tv?
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:53 PM   #7
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My first DVR, a 2005 SA8300HD had 60 minute buffers, and only a 160GB HDD and could also record the prior show, in the buffer, even though the new show had started. I sure wish TiVo would do the same.

But, I have just changed my habits to always hit record when watching LiveTV if I think there may be something I want.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:25 PM   #8
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1) PARAGRAPHS
2) You're not being "mislead". I would agree it's not optimal, but this is pretty darn low on the "bad bugs" list, IMHO.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:10 PM   #9
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1) PARAGRAPHS
2) You're not being "mislead". I would agree it's not optimal, but this is pretty darn low on the "bad bugs" list, IMHO.
In reading through the seemingly endless threads of problems I would have to agree, especially compared to issues like rebooting 6 times an hour, or no service, etc.
But apparently not being able to record what you are watching is not even considered a "bug" and it's just something most everyone accepts and/or learns ways to work around. So I'm guessing it's not really even on any "bad bug" list.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:20 PM   #10
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[quote=lgnad;10277630]I know you said "duh" to it, but: You have six tuners! You have a 3tb drive with 10% in use! Live has too small a buffer... take a phone call, wander off to do something, etc... oops, just ran out of buffer. If you have something in the buffer and a scheduled show on another channel starts up on that tuner... oops. Add in the problem you described, theres a lot of downsides. I hate running out of buffer and hitting commercials! Live tv is restricting enough that I always automatically just hit record the once in a while (once a month... maybe) something catches my eye on live tv between recordings... and since Im not buried in the buffer it just records whatever its got of the current program.


I'm not sure if you are saying that you have all 6 tuners recording 24 hours a day but that is the only way I know of to be able to be able to watch any of the tuners at any time and be able to back up in order to skip commercials.


Regarding "What is the upside to live tv?"

I guess possibly I should have said I like to keep updated on news and my schedule is very erratic. So I pretty much leave my 6 tuners on the stations I use most so I will be able to switch around and have a buffer on each to be able to ff through commercials or segments I've seen, yet stay very close to live all of the time.

From a marketing point of view with DVRs in general, being able to pause live TV is one of the most fundamental features and with the Roamio marketing it seems still to be the case. As far as a tuner being taken for a scheduled recording where I would lose the buffer on one tuner, I avoid that by mostly streaming or downloading Movies or other videos to my computer/ TV where I have more control over what I'm watching. I just had no idea beforehand that there was this limitation of not being able to save what I am watching even when it is still in the buffer.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:34 PM   #11
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1) PARAGRAPHS
2) You're not being "mislead". I would agree it's not optimal, but this is pretty darn low on the "bad bugs" list, IMHO.
Regarding not being misleading, if the manual says press record if you want to save what is in the buffer, yet for nearly half of each hour you cannot do that, I am missing how that is not misleading? I have looked and I haven’t seen anything regarding that. Seriously let me know if you know of something/anything that says that. Certainly I could have missed it.
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:31 AM   #12
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The following is an email I received a while back from a TiVo employee:
"You are unable to record the past program, although parts of it remain in the Live TV cache.

This is expected behavior. I understand that other DVRs can still capture that previous show if it is in the buffer, but for now, the TiVo is only going to give the option to record the current show.

I have filed an RFE (new feature request) and assigned it to the Product Manager for her to review. No guarantees on timing, but I know she will review it and I can let her know that multiple customers are requesting this feature. FWIW, I know I would use this feature."
Submitting a Feature Request and sending an email to Margret Schmidt (margret at tivo.com) regarding your request couldn't hurt.
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:43 AM   #13
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Wanting the news is great, create a season pass and keep only a few episodes. Not that the buffer treatment is ideal, but if you record more, and consider using suggestions, you are more likely to capture through a recording what you are trying to manage with the buffer.

Buffer surfing is a PITA. The best work-around is to record more, IMO.
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:59 AM   #14
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Wanting the news is great, create a season pass and keep only a few episodes. Not that the buffer treatment is ideal, but if you record more, and consider using suggestions, you will capture through a recording what you are trying to manage with the buffer.

Buffer surfing is a PITA. The best work-around is to record more, IMO.
Yup. I have season passes for the news shows I watch. Set them to save 1 episode, and you always have the latest news available.
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:56 AM   #15
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This is actually a recent behavior. I know for a fact my DirecTivo (series 2) would record the current buffer plus the current show. IIRC, even my TivoHD did this until one of the updates killed it. Although I've learned to live with it, I still get burned once in a while and lose the end of a show that I'm watching live. BTW, as long as I build up a little time with a few pauses while channel surfing, I don't have to watch commercials while watching live TV. If you don't want to watch live TV, fine, but don't disparage those of us that still like to surf!
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Old 10-17-2014, 01:02 PM   #16
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I haven't tried the manual recording suggestion yet, but I really appreciate it if actually works. There are plenty of times I've had to leave the house a few minutes after a show has just ended but where I'm behind live and wanted to catch the rest when I got home. Setting a manual recording is a bit cumbersome compared to just hitting record, but many thanks for the solution.
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:21 PM   #17
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I haven't tried the manual recording suggestion yet, but I really appreciate it if actually works. There are plenty of times I've had to leave the house a few minutes after a show has just ended but where I'm behind live and wanted to catch the rest when I got home. Setting a manual recording is a bit cumbersome compared to just hitting record, but many thanks for the solution.
I feel the same. I just think it is sad how many threads, over how much time, on this subject, wound up with snarky and snide "solutions", like "just schedule it to record, if you want it". Yeah, that's real helpful, when you usually don't watch the news, and 98% of the time don't care about the news, but something is on the foreground tuner, you really want to watch, just not in realtime, and the next program slot started, before you thought to press record. Upon doing so, poof goes the very buffer content you wanted...

I've been subbed into at least a half-dozen threads on the matter, and this is the first I heard of the manual method for back-buffering preservation. Thanks for that, those who brought it up!

TiVo DID used to always include the back-buffer, up to usually 30 minutes, if you used the record button, rather than using the guide, tacking on up to 30 minutes of prior program many didn't want. Some complained to TiVo so loudly about it, that we wound up with things the way the vocal folks wanted it. I get called OCD for so many things. Yet, those who would call me that, couldn't stand when they pressed record, and got extra buffer behind the current slot. Boo hoo, poor people too lazy (or too entitled) to use skip-to-tick, who ruined it for the ones who want that back-buffer content...

I'm not looking for a fight. I've already fought it in all the other threads, before this one.

I always thought it should work this way:
1. Want just the current active program slot?
Pull up the guide and pick what you want.
2. Want that back-buffer?
Rewind all the way back, press record.

TiVo can make it work like this. I've seen it in action, in the past, from the TiVo HD, to the Premieres. Roamio started-out already active-slot-only.

I have found that if watching a very low bitrate program source, like SD, or in the extreme, a music channel, backbuffer can be much longer than 30 minutes. I got 2h,59m of back-buffer, by hitting record on a music channel, that only showed 30 minutes on the green buffer/progress bar. Yet, if I just tried to rewind it, before pressing record, I only could go back 30 minutes.

I've also had a few instances, most oftten on low bitrate channels, where the buffer still got tacked-on, using the guide or record, as well as the buffer being longer than 30 minutes. Going by all the insane activity in my TiVo logs, when tuners are left on lower-than-normal bitrate channels, the TiVo seems to think armageddon is coming, with screens worth of dire errors and warnings, about buffer wrapping, and "corruption is almost insured" entries. I've never seen an instance of all those errors being correct about any problem with the content being referred to...

As I often am, I simply want a choice in the matter, not what TiVo decides is best for all, based on those who whine the loudest, or nothing logic seems to fit.
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:59 PM   #18
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With dish network, if you rewind past the current show and hit record, you get the available buffer plus the current show. If you don't rewind past the current show and hit record, you only get the current show. Seems easy enough to do on a Tivo if they wanted to.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:07 PM   #19
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Oh, and by the way, got pretty inconsistent results as far as using the the manual recording solution. First time I kept getting "this program has ended" message and failure to set up recording. 2nd and third time success, but I think it has to do with whether I was rewound (bad) or live (success). Also a weird bug in manual recordings where the channel and recording time of a manual recording I had set up five minutes prior were defaulted, even though I was now on a new channel. Anyway...
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:15 PM   #20
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With dish network, if you rewind past the current show and hit record, you get the available buffer plus the current show. If you don't rewind past the current show and hit record, you only get the current show. Seems easy enough to do on a Tivo if they wanted to.
I've seen that behavior in a few TiVo software revisions, as well. That's what gets me. I've seen many variations of what was "normal" behavior, regarding timeslots and buffers.

The only thing TiVo seems to have needed to try, then take out, was the overlapping recording on same channel, not requiring an extra tuner feature. I'm beginning to think they figured it's better for them to not make that workable, in hopes of upselling 6 tuner models, to those who would go with 4 tuner ones, otherwise. Some who had bought 6-tuner ones actually proclaimed they'd have went with a base model, if they knew that was coming. Hopefully that will make a comeback. The whole buffer matter has been a debate running long enough, I lost hope of having a choice on how the buffer gets handled.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:21 PM   #21
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Oh, and by the way, got pretty inconsistent results as far as using the the manual recording solution. First time I kept getting "this program has ended" message and failure to set up recording. 2nd and third time success, but I think it has to do with whether I was rewound (bad) or live (success). Also a weird bug in manual recordings where the channel and recording time of a manual recording I had set up five minutes prior were defaulted, even though I was now on a new channel. Anyway...
I seem to recall that this software version may have introduced some bugs into manual recordings. I've been trying to recall where I saw a mention of it, since the buffer workaround came up. Not many use manual recording. So, new interest in using it just might help insure any bugs there get fixed. One can hope, anyway...
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Old 10-17-2014, 06:37 PM   #22
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I think the "bug" of subsequent manual recordings not clearing out the previous manual recording info dates back to at least February (when I got my first tivo). I happen to use manual recordings pretty regularly particularly for sports when I want the entire day's lineup. Nothing worse than having a recording end and dump you to live tv that then reveals scores/results you weren't ready for yet. I sometimes set an 8 to 12 hour manual recording on a sports channel so I won't have 4, 5 or 6 separate recordings to navigate.
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:58 PM   #23
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But apparently not being able to record what you are watching is not even considered a "bug" and it's just something most everyone accepts and/or learns ways to work around. So I'm guessing it's not really even on any "bad bug" list.
But again, it's simply in the *buffer* and is the *previous show*.

*I* consider it a bug, and it's something *I* would fix (after the can't-download-a-program-with-a-glitch-in-it and a ton of other things), but I can understand why it's low priority -- if you were watching the show and wanted to record it, you would have hit record then.. and even if you simply rewound in the buffer, you're unlikely to get the WHOLE recording, so it's an even smaller use case where someone WANTS to record part of a show.
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