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Old 11-11-2013, 09:20 AM   #1
aindik
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Homeland - 11/10/2013 - S03E07 "Gerontion"

Does Javadi not realize that Carrie and Saul will figure out in 15 seconds that he fed them different information about Brody? I guess the point is for them to fight about it. But he told them both that Brody didn't do it. I'm guessing that means he did it.

The actor playing Quinn is doing some excellent work this season.

The CIA power struggle is starting to resemble 24, with Saul playing the role of Jack Bauer. Only in reverse, policy-wise. Locking his future boss in the conference room pretty much cements him being done, doesn't it? Unless the President changes his mind about whom to appoint.

I could do without the Saul's marriage storyline.

Are we supposed to trust that Dar is on Saul's side now? I don't.

What does the episode title mean?
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by aindik View Post
Does Javadi not realize that Carrie and Saul will figure out in 15 seconds that he fed them different information about Brody? I guess the point is for them to fight about it. But he told them both that Brody didn't do it. I'm guessing that means he did it.
Javardi told them both that Brody didn't do it. He told Saul he didn't knpow which one of Nassir's guys it was.

He only raised "who supplied the car keys?" with Carrie, and said that the lawyer knows who the bomber, still in country - new plot thread - is.

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The actor playing Quinn is doing some excellent work this season.
Showtime telegraphed that he'd be more out front with having a spotlight promo on him. Can't hurt to have a shirtless dreamy young guy on the screen - taking a shower.


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The CIA power struggle is starting to resemble 24, with Saul playing the role of Jack Bauer. Only in reverse, policy-wise. Locking his future boss in the conference room pretty much cements him being done, doesn't it? Unless the President changes his mind about whom to appoint.

I could do without the Saul's marriage storyline.

Are we supposed to trust that Dar is on Saul's side now? I don't.

What does the episode title mean?
I think that Dar knows the value of human intelligence, so he knows that Sual just hit it out of the park. How hard would it be to ask Senator Bad Guy which drone found Bin Laden?

"Gerontion"" (cheers to the T.S. Eliot reference)

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"Gerontion" is a title of a T.S. Eliot poem told from the perspective of an older man who has lived through World War I and is questioning his faith. The literary reference is a nod to the CIA's changing hands from our veteran, wise man Saul to Senator Lockhart.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/youyou...p_ref=tv&ir=TV

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Old 11-11-2013, 10:13 AM   #3
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Does Javadi not realize that Carrie and Saul will figure out in 15 seconds that he fed them different information about Brody? I guess the point is for them to fight about it. But he told them both that Brody didn't do it. I'm guessing that means he did it.
I didn't see that as "different" information, I thought he told Saul "I don't know" and he told Carrie "Someone at the law from knows" (who moved the car), different shadings of the same answer.

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The actor playing Quinn is doing some excellent work this season.
Last season I thought he was going "anonymous stone faced hit man", this year he is showing the wear and tear of that lifestyle.
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The CIA power struggle is starting to resemble 24, with Saul playing the role of Jack Bauer. Only in reverse, policy-wise. Locking his future boss in the conference room pretty much cements him being done, doesn't it? Unless the President changes his mind about whom to appoint.
Interestingly in the Real World, lack of "Human Intelligence" was in part blamed for 9/11. Not sure if this relates to the "24 in reverse" meme or whether the showrunners are going that way to show the Senator as in the wrong. I think Saul has "pulled a fast one" in letting Javadi go, the CIA can't fire him because then Javadi will be out of control, it is very clear they have a history, and that he trusts Saul (to the extant any one can trust any ont in the spy biz).
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I could do without the Saul's marriage storyline.
I'm not sure where they are going with it, but it is sure better than the Brody family drama
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Are we supposed to trust that Dar is on Saul's side now? I don't.
I think we ALL know Dar is on Dar's side

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What does the episode title mean?
It is title of a poem by TS Eliot, it tlaks about an ole man looking back at his life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerontion

Speaking about Brody family drama, how many believe that her new roomate is the Maryland president of the "Young Jihadists of America"

Last edited by tiassa : 11-11-2013 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Or what MikeAndrews said!
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:20 PM   #4
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I think Saul has "pulled a fast one" in letting Javadi go, the CIA can't fire him because then Javadi will be out of control, it is very clear they have a history, and that he trusts Saul (to the extant any one can trust any ont in the spy biz).
I don't see that. While Saul would be the best choice to handle Javadi as a double-agent, it is not necessary that Javadi remain a double-agent for him to not be "out of control". The CIA could fire Saul, expose Javadi's theft, and then the Iranians would torture and execute Javadi. Of course, the problem is, as Saul said, that Javadi's replacement may be as bad or worse for the US. But the new CIA director probably does not see it that way, so Javadi is not protecting Saul from being fired.

I think Saul was just trying to do what he considered "the right thing". Which is to try to prevent the attack-retaliate cycle he mentioned from continuing. I guess he will try to make his case to the President, but I think it will be more towards the goal of keeping the CIA going in the direction Saul wants, rather than trying desperately to save his own job.

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Old 11-11-2013, 02:35 PM   #5
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The CIA power struggle is starting to resemble 24
Actually, there was something in the preview (that aired last week) for this episode that looked like they were going to borrow from the very worst of the 24 playbook.

As they were leading Javadi out the door of the safe house, the forensic accountant lady was seen clutching at a pair of scissors. The obvious implication was that she was going to kill Javadi in a fit of extremely unprofessional pique.

That would sooooo totally have happened on 24. I'm glad that they decided to only just tease us into thinking that that was going to happen here.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:43 PM   #6
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I think we ALL know Dar is on Dar's side

He's obviously all about himself, but with this new intel he's got to be thinking it might also bring him more power.



What I don't understand is why did Quinn cop to the murders? He of just as easily said I didn't do it, that he was only present trying to stop them, it was someone else but I can't tell you who and you need to let the investigation go cold - for national security.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:48 PM   #7
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What I don't understand is why did Quinn cop to the murders? He of just as easily said I didn't do it, that he was only present trying to stop them, it was someone else but I can't tell you who and you need to let the investigation go cold - for national security.
I was wondering that, too. At first, I thought he was really going to suffer the consequences -- he would really take the fall and go to jail (or worse). That would at least make a little sense.

But if the investigation is going to close without an official perp anyway, it does not make sense for him to say he did it. CIA agents are not magically immune to prosecution for murder, as far as I know. So, by not prosecuting him, they are just arbitrarily deciding to not pursue the case. Which they could just as well do if he said that he did not do it, but it is critical to National Security that they NOT pursue the guy who did do it.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:10 PM   #8
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He's obviously all about himself, but with this new intel he's got to be thinking it might also bring him more power.



What I don't understand is why did Quinn cop to the murders? He of just as easily said I didn't do it, that he was only present trying to stop them, it was someone else but I can't tell you who and you need to let the investigation go cold - for national security.
I assume it was to prevent them from concluding that Javadi might have been involved himself.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:22 PM   #9
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The detective should have been named Meldrick Lewis, just to tie Homeland into that enormous St Elsewhere/Homicide universe.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:23 PM   #10
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I assume it was to prevent them from concluding that Javadi might have been involved himself.
Yeah, it was to get the cops to really and truly stop investigating.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:29 PM   #11
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It was to kill off any idea that Javadi was inside the US.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #12
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It was to kill off any idea that Javadi was inside the US.
That does not make sense. They could easily have invented some fictitious person (not Javadi) to pin it on, and then claim that person must not be pursued for National Security reasons. Or they could say they think it was a hit man, and then even give the cops the name of a real hit man who might plausibly have been hired to do it.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:55 PM   #13
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That does not make sense. They could easily have invented some fictitious person (not Javadi) to pin it on, and then claim that person must not be pursued for National Security reasons. Or they could say they think it was a hit man, and then even give the cops the name of a real hit man who might plausibly have been hired to do it.
They did the name of the wrong person, Quinn.

The detective already knew that the victim were Javadi's ex-wife - who was in witness protection - and daughter-in-law. It wouldnt be a leap of logic to think that Javadi had something to do with it.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:03 PM   #14
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They did the name of the wrong person, Quinn.

The detective already knew that the victim were Javadi's ex-wife - who was in witness protection - and daughter-in-law. It wouldnt be a leap of logic to think that Javadi had something to do with it.
Naming Quinn does not make sense.

And it would be quite a leap to assume Javadi himself did it.

And it does not matter if they think Javadi ordered the hit or not, if the police are not going to pursue the matter anyway.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:04 PM   #15
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Naming Quinn does not make sense.

And it would be quite a leap to assume Javadi himself did it.

And it does not matter if they think Javadi ordered the hit or not, if the police are not going to pursue the matter anyway.
They might.

If they were willing to just stand down because CIA said so, they'd have done it when Carrie asked them to.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:08 PM   #16
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They might.

If they were willing to just stand down because CIA said so, they'd have done it when Carrie asked them to.
If we are going to talk "might", then they might do something even after Quinn's false confession. But it is unlikely, just as it is unlikely that the police would continue investigating after one of the other options I mentioned.

Carrie's word was not enough. They wanted to talk to the man in the photo. So they talked to Quinn. It just does not make sense for him to confess to the killing.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:13 PM   #17
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They wanted to know who did the killing. That's what police and crime scene investigators do. Telling them "we can't tell you who did the killing, stop asking" is not the same thing.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:17 PM   #18
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They wanted to know who did the killing. That's what police and crime scene investigators do. Telling them "we can't tell you who did the killing, stop asking" is not the same thing.
What are you talking about?

The police would "know" who did the killing with the options I already listed.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:24 PM   #19
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What are you talking about?

The police would "know" who did the killing with the options I already listed.
There's a difference between telling them it was a bad guy they can't pursue, and telling them they'll out a CIA agent if they keep going.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:31 PM   #20
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There's a difference between telling them it was a bad guy they can't pursue, and telling them they'll out a CIA agent if they keep going.
That's a stretch. You could just as easily say that the police are MORE likely to pursue things if they actually have the suspect in their hands than if they are told it is someone else (who does not exist).

Besides, if it really were necessary to give the police a suspect to pursue, the CIA could name some real hit man, as I already mentioned.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:36 PM   #21
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That's a stretch. You could just as easily say that the police are MORE likely to pursue things if they actually have the suspect in their hands than if they are told it is someone else (who does not exist).

Besides, if it really were necessary to give the police a suspect to pursue, the CIA could name some real hit man, as I already mentioned.
That hitman has a lawyer who will try to clear his client's name by trying to figure out what really happened.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:44 PM   #22
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That hitman has a lawyer who will try to clear his client's name by trying to figure out what really happened.
So what?
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:46 PM   #23
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So what?
The CIA doesn't want anyone to know what really happened. That's the point of this whole exercise.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #24
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Too many loose ends to try to blame somebody after the fact. They had no idea that Quinn would be made, so they never thought of trying to blame somebody else.

And to try that now would not be smart.

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Old 11-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #25
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Other than that though, it makes no sense that somebody like Quinn would cut the ex-wife's throat, especially after easily gunning down the other woman.

I see no valid scenario where he does that instead of just easily shooting her.

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Old 11-11-2013, 06:19 PM   #26
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I think the police know Quinn didn't do it, but there's nothing they can do about it.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:56 PM   #27
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Carey's character has really developed in this season.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:56 PM   #28
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Saul's has developed too. It's getting a lot more interesting to watch.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:12 PM   #29
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The CIA doesn't want anyone to know what really happened. That's the point of this whole exercise.
False.

Beyond Javadi getting out of the US without being arrested, the "point" is that no one finds out that Javadi is working for the CIA now. There are many ways that could have been accomplished without Quinn putting himself in danger of spending life in prison or worse. I mentioned a couple.

Besides, you are grasping at straws. It is very unlikely that much information would be discovered by a P.I. With Quinn confessing, there is the risk that one of the cops will be upset that this jerk just committed two brutal murders and appears to be getting away with it (and the CIA looks guilty, too)...so he investigates further, trying to make the CIA accountable for murder. I'm not saying that scenario is likely, but you cannot prove that it is more or less likely than the longshots you have been talking about.
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Old 11-11-2013, 09:54 PM   #30
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24 use to have 4 quarters so to speak at 6 episodes before the crisis switched.

Homeland is working on the 4 episode periods before they switch.
So in the future we just have to be a little patient.
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