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Old 11-05-2015, 02:36 AM   #1
DevdogAZ
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Survivor: Second Chance "Play to Win" 11/4/2015 *spoilers*

Wow, that was a huge Tribal Council. I wonder how long it actually lasted in real life. If Probst did his usual deep dive into everyone's issues, it's very likely it lasted over two hours.

I'm kind of torn on whether Spencer made the right move. I'd like to see him and Kelly Wentworth do well, but I'd also like to see Jeremy, Joe, and Fishbach do well.

With all the Andrew Savage confessionals at the beginning of the episode, I was wondering if the editing was pointing toward him being on the chopping block.

I was confused about the drama between Tascha and Kass. Tascha intentionally told Kass a lie (Bayon isn't sticking together) because she didn't trust Kass. Tascha admitted it directly to Kass' face. So why was Tascha denying it in front of everyone else? Why not just admit to everyone what she said and tell the truth that she was intentionally trying to deceive Kass? It seems like this would help endear her to the rest of her alliance.

Why did Ciera throw her vote away by voting for Savage? And why did Wentworth vote for Kass? I'm assuming they knew Spencer wasn't voting with them, but even still, why not at least vote Tascha in the hopes that Spencer changes his mind? Does Wentworth really think she can get herself off the bottom by simply saying "I voted with you guys last night"?

Also, I was confused by the argument Ciera was trying to make at Tribal. She was complaining that everyone else wasn't playing to win, but going along with the majority in that situation is exactly what you do if you're playing to win. Trying to form minority factions and take down the majority is almost certainly a losing strategy when there are this many people left and it's 9 original Bayon vs. 4 original Ta Keo.

I noticed this was the first time to Tribal for Joe and Keith. I wonder if Day 19 is the latest in Survivor history for someone to go to their first TC.

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Old 11-05-2015, 03:53 AM   #2
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13 at the merge was a bit overwhelming. It's hard to judge where the lines will be drawn with so many voting together. The 9 person alliance can't last so Abi, Wentworth, & Ciera could be valuable numbers once it splits although I think Ciera has burned most of her bridges.

One possible reason for Wentworth's vote could've been to make sure that Kass went instead of Ciera. Maybe she perceives Ciera as a better ally.

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Old 11-05-2015, 04:10 AM   #3
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13 at the merge was a bit overwhelming. It's hard to judge where the lines will be drawn with so many voting together. The 9 person alliance can't last so Abi, Wentworth, & Ciera could be valuable numbers once it splits although I think Ciera has burned most of her bridges.

One possible reason for Wentworth's vote could've been to make sure that Kass went instead of Ciera. Maybe she perceives Ciera as a better ally.
In theory, Ciera probably is a better ally, but not with the way she went off at TC and basically called everyone else out. The attitude she displayed was that she knew she was either going home at this vote or the next, and people who take that stance and alienate the rest of the tribe are rarely able to recover.

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Old 11-05-2015, 05:12 AM   #4
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From Ciera's Twitter (insight on this episode):

Spoiler:
She says that the reason that she voted for Savage was because she might want to work with Tascha in the future, and voting Savage wouldn't burn any bridges. Also, Kelley told her that she was switching to go with the majority.

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Old 11-05-2015, 06:24 AM   #5
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I was less than impressed with Ciera's argument at tribal - her whole "play to win" strategy is the same strategy everyone is playing which is why you latch on the a majority and vote out your non-allies. Ciera was doing the same thing, she just wasn't in the majority. Yes, people are playing to win the game, it's just that they aren't going to play the game to help YOU win over themselves.

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Old 11-05-2015, 07:37 AM   #6
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While everyone should be playing to win, there are still some that aren't. Keith, Kimmi, Wiggles, for example, are playing for top 5 at best. Siding with the majority gets them by for a few more tribals until it's there turn to be picked off. The current herd mentality only benefits the guys in charge, Savage, Jeremy, maybe Joe & Spencer. Breaking away from that gives more strategic players like Ciera a chance. It's the same thing Fishbach was crying about before.

It's also largely a critique on Ciera's own game last time so she may be projecting that just a little.

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Old 11-05-2015, 08:00 AM   #7
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With all the air time Kass was getting I'm not surprised she got voted out.

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Old 11-05-2015, 08:33 AM   #8
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While everyone should be playing to win, there are still some that aren't. Keith, Kimmi, Wiggles, for example, are playing for top 5 at best. Siding with the majority gets them by for a few more tribals until it's there turn to be picked off. The current herd mentality only benefits the guys in charge, Savage, Jeremy, maybe Joe & Spencer. Breaking away from that gives more strategic players like Ciera a chance. It's the same thing Fishbach was crying about before.

It's also largely a critique on Ciera's own game last time so she may be projecting that just a little.
I'm not sure what game Wigglesworth is playing.

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Old 11-05-2015, 09:29 AM   #9
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While everyone should be playing to win, there are still some that aren't. Keith, Kimmi, Wiggles, for example, are playing for top 5 at best. Siding with the majority gets them by for a few more tribals until it's there turn to be picked off. The current herd mentality only benefits the guys in charge, Savage, Jeremy, maybe Joe & Spencer. Breaking away from that gives more strategic players like Ciera a chance. It's the same thing Fishbach was crying about before.

It's also largely a critique on Ciera's own game last time so she may be projecting that just a little.
The problem is that it's too early to break away. As we saw in this episode, it would require 7 to be in the majority, or 5 if the majority is trying to split the vote. That's a lot of people to try and manage behind the backs of the majority. Ciera and Kass should have just been quiet and let the alphas all start to feel threatened by each other. I don't see what Kass had to gain by picking a fight with Tascha.

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Old 11-05-2015, 10:24 AM   #10
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Kass should have laid low, her eviction was self inflicted...

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Old 11-05-2015, 10:40 AM   #11
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I'm so happy Kas is gone AND that Spencer had something to do with it. I hated her smugness.

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:12 AM   #12
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While everyone should be playing to win, there are still some that aren't. Keith, Kimmi, Wiggles, for example, are playing for top 5 at best. Siding with the majority gets them by for a few more tribals until it's there turn to be picked off. The current herd mentality only benefits the guys in charge, Savage, Jeremy, maybe Joe & Spencer. Breaking away from that gives more strategic players like Ciera a chance. It's the same thing Fishbach was crying about before.

It's also largely a critique on Ciera's own game last time so she may be projecting that just a little.
How many times have we seen players who aren't playing to win, actually win? Happens quite often. A lot of times they lay in the weeds, go with the majority and then pounce at the end. Playing hard sometimes makes you a target.

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:22 AM   #13
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How many times have we seen players who aren't playing to win, actually win? Happens quite often. A lot of times they lay in the weeds, go with the majority and then pounce at the end. Playing hard sometimes makes you a target.
Against a group of returning savvy players, I'd argue that playing hard almost guarantees that you will be a target. Kass has nobody to blame but herself for being voted out last night. Going into the merge, she was probably low on the radar, but she put a huge target on her back when people saw how manipulative she was trying to be.

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:27 AM   #14
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Kass should have laid low, her eviction was self inflicted...
...and she said as much on her exit interview. I do like it when people are smart enough and self-aware. Usually, these exit interviews confirm that people are crazy

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:38 AM   #15
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Dalton's recap (may contain spoilers)
http://www.ew.com/recap/survivor-cam...n-31-episode-7

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:39 AM   #16
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...and she said as much on her exit interview. I do like it when people are smart enough and self-aware. Usually, these exit interviews confirm that people are crazy
In her day after interview...

Spoiler:
She said she played a different game and only lost because of payback from her previous season. She sounded a bit crazy about how they made the mistake of voting her out first to the jury because she will cause havoc in the jury. Somehow she thinks she'll run the jury and be able to influence every ones vote.


Didn't they say Ponderosa would be up today on the website? Kass is on the jury.

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Old 11-05-2015, 12:35 PM   #17
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The problem is that it's too early to break away. As we saw in this episode, it would require 7 to be in the majority, or 5 if the majority is trying to split the vote. That's a lot of people to try and manage behind the backs of the majority. Ciera and Kass should have just been quiet and let the alphas all start to feel threatened by each other. I don't see what Kass had to gain by picking a fight with Tascha.
Kass went about it wrong, no question, and there was no need for Ciera to jump in the hole with her once she dug it. She's still right that there are a few sheep willingly being lead to the slaughter*, but now she's not in any position to take advantage of them. Also, playing to win doesn't necessarily require voting against the majority. They should've been positioning themselves in that group making the decision about who left. It was supposedly Bayon strong so they should've tried to shift the target to Spencer, Wiggles, Abi, or Wentworth. A straight Pagonging would've been a boring few weeks for us, but during that time, they could've been working on gaining Joe, Spencer, & Keith on their side for the eventual implosion.

* It's possible that Kimmi, Keith, Wiggles are playing to win and making great moves in the background to assure their safety. If that's the case, Ciera was dead wrong, but based on what we've seen so far, they're just there waiting their turn to get voted out.

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Old 11-05-2015, 12:38 PM   #18
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That smug kASS was on my tv screen for way too long in both seasons. She was the one person I hoped never to see again after her first season. What fun she must be at parties. Good riddance indeed!

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Old 11-05-2015, 12:47 PM   #19
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Ciera is playing too hard. No reason to stick her neck out like that and rustle some feathers just yet. IMHO there's just too many people left to be going all out. Nothing wrong with laying low at 13. All she has done is put a target on her back now.

I had thought that Ciera might vote for Kass to ensure her own survival with the knowledge that the other side was splitting votes, but I guess if Kelley Wentworth told her she was going with the majority she didn't need to do that (as long as she trusted Kelley).

Savage is sure pissed off. I didn't expect him to act the way he did in his early confessional.

Where are the hidden immunity idols? Jeremy, Wentworth, and who?

With all of the tribe switheroos it's really hard for me to remember who started on which tribes. Thankfully we have the internets for that.

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Old 11-05-2015, 01:52 PM   #20
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... Siding with the majority gets them by for a few more tribals until it's there turn to be picked off...
<cringe>

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... based on what we've seen so far, they're just there waiting their turn to get voted out.
BRAVO! Brilliant usage of all three variations!! Proof that the first error was a quick typo. Three thumbs up!

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Old 11-05-2015, 02:06 PM   #21
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I noticed Ponderosa was up on youtube but not up on the CBS website yet. Strange.

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Old 11-05-2015, 04:44 PM   #22
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I noticed Ponderosa was up on youtube but not up on the CBS website yet. Strange.
CBS seems determined to make their website more useless each year. Here's a link to her Ponderosa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKocesO_gtY

I must say, I like Kass a lot more at Ponderosa than as a contestant. She's got a good attitude.

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Old 11-05-2015, 05:25 PM   #23
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CBS seems determined to make their website more useless each year. Here's a link to her Ponderosa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKocesO_gtY

I must say, I like Kass a lot more at Ponderosa than as a contestant. She's got a good attitude.
I didn't, thought she was still too full of herself.

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Old 11-05-2015, 07:54 PM   #24
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So is it assumed they won't be hiding any more clues to Idols until the 2 that have been found are used?

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:34 PM   #25
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I liked the new Kass--she definitely switched her game play and it was working...right up until she stupidly brought the chaos back.

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Old 11-06-2015, 11:24 AM   #26
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Having newbie players is ok but it really is fun to see a lot of people return and play hard. This season has been really entertaining.

It was fun seeing Spencer have to decide whether to vote out Kass after she saved him last week. But really she did it to herself. There was no reason for her to blow up at Tasha and start the chaos again. Maybe she just couldn't help herself.

If Kass acts like queen of Ponderosa the whole time, I'm not sure I'll be able to watch those videos. We'll see.

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Old 11-06-2015, 09:14 PM   #27
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I was happy Spencer made the sane choice. OK, Kass saved him... that's yesterday. Today you're in a serious two-way bro-liance with probably one of the most dominant challenge contestants ever on Survivor... and you're thinking about ditching that to save Kass?!?! That would be too stupid for words.

Even after Ciera's explanation above I don't get her vote. If she really didn't want to ruffle feathers why not vote for Kass?? Plus that ensures Kass goes home rather than her, even if someone is trying to play sneaky.

I agree that some of the hangers-on seem a bit like cannon fodder right now, but with so many people still in the game it's really not time to start making waves yet as long as you're in the stronger alliance. Plenty of time to make a big move later.

I'm so much enjoying this season, I have to say. All the throwback challenges, playing with people who know what they're doing, it's all so fun.

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Old 11-08-2015, 09:13 AM   #28
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I was happy Spencer made the sane choice. OK, Kass saved him... that's yesterday. Today you're in a serious two-way bro-liance with probably one of the most dominant challenge contestants ever on Survivor... and you're thinking about ditching that to save Kass?!?! That would be too stupid for words.

Even after Ciera's explanation above I don't get her vote. If she really didn't want to ruffle feathers why not vote for Kass?? Plus that ensures Kass goes home rather than her, even if someone is trying to play sneaky.

I agree that some of the hangers-on seem a bit like cannon fodder right now, but with so many people still in the game it's really not time to start making waves yet as long as you're in the stronger alliance. Plenty of time to make a big move later.

I'm so much enjoying this season, I have to say. All the throwback challenges, playing with people who know what they're doing, it's all so fun.
Yeah it's a fun season so far. I like that even though it's returnees it's not the usual suspects. How many seasons of Rupert or Boston Rob can you watch?

I know that people get annoyed when players don't play to win, but it's really a valid strategy, especially against alpha players who've played before Kass, being an alpha player became a target. I expect Joe to have no shot as I'm sure someone will come up with a plan to vote him out at some point as soon as he doesn't win a challenge, because he's a challenge beast. That would be my strategy, stay in a strong alliance until the merge, then see which way the wind is blowing, and at the right time, make your move. As long as you can explain that this was your game the whole way, you should be good. The problem with those types of players very often is when it comes down to explaining their game, they can't do it coherently.

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Old 11-08-2015, 03:14 PM   #29
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Yeah it's a fun season so far. I like that even though it's returnees it's not the usual suspects. How many seasons of Rupert or Boston Rob can you watch?
No, no, no,no, no. Please no.

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Old 11-08-2015, 03:53 PM   #30
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I could watch Boston Rob again. That was like watching a well-choreographed routine. Rupert, no way.

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